Respondent's legal Fee threat in employment tribunal ?

[hedgehog1234]

Hi and thanks for the forum,I intensely dislike signing up and shooting straight into a question in the forum without firstly trying to contribute in some way. But here I am ! My question is hopefully very simple ? I'm in the middle of a employment tribunal and have just just received a letter from my previous employer's solicitor stating that if I lose the case they will ask the tribunal to make an order against me in respect of legal fees for their client,they estimate it to be £5000. Can they do this ? Many thanks in advance for any any advice.

[elpulpo]

A common one.

Have a look at the post 'pre hearing review' by stinkysrevenge (just a couple of posts down from yours), it's basically the same question you've posted.

[hedgehog1234]

Thanks for that CLICK HERE I must admit when I first read the letter I became very anxious ! Having now read up on the subject I feel much better about the situation. My case is straight forward;I was more or less forced to work 12 hours a day with no break. My weakness is that I just resigned without putting in a grievance.From what I've read it would seem unlikely that costs would be awarded against me. If I win is another thing altogether,but I'm not in this for the money. My one remaining concern is that the company I've chosen to represent me on a no-win no-fee basis aren't responding to my emails or calls ! It seems as if I might be alone in this now. So be it ! Thanks again for your advice,it really is appreciated. I will try to help out here with any knowledge or experience I gain from this situation.

[elpulpo]

Just a piece of advice, reading your last post.

Be very wary of having people represent you on a no win-no fee basis at the Employment Tribunal.

 

Exactly as has been discussed, costs are not normally awarded at ET, so any fee they might require for their representation would normally be deducted from any award you might receive from the Tribunal.

Check what their rates are.

 

Not least because winning the Tribunal is seemingly only half the battle, getting the money out of the respondant can be a drawn out (if not sometimes impossible) task.

 

Several years ago I instructed a solicitor with regard to an employment matter that went to ET.

She initially quoted me £130 an hour for representation at the ET, which would have probably amounted to a bill of c.£1000.

 

Later though, when it became clear that there was a significant award to be had in the case, possibly in excess of £10,000, she started offering to represent me on 'no win-no fee'.

 

At first, this seemed very inviting, until I realised that the terms of the 'no win' were that she would receive 33% of any award! Suddenly not so good! She's looking at making more like £3500 out of me!

[rebel11]

Hedgehog,

 

Your local CAB can help you,

This is only an aid to understanding, it's dated 2001, but worth a read. http://www.unison.org.uk/acrobat/B373.pdf

[elpulpo]

Just one other thing Hedgehog.

Noticed you said in your last post 'I'm not in this for the money'.

What are ya in it for then?

 

Only my opinion, but it's that sort of attitude that might just sway an ET to award costs!

 

ET's are there to put right unlawful situations, put very simply. If you're dismissed, and you shouldn't have been, then the ET will theoretically put you in the financial position you would have been had you not been dismissed. (and monkeys might fly out of my bum:D).

 

They're not there for people to merely prove a point.

If you're just looking to say to your ex employer 'see, told ya that you treated me unfairly!', then I'd advise you not to bother.

 

If you feel aggrieved towards them, I fully understand.

I still feel angry about people who treated me badly 10 years ago.

[hedgehog1234]

Thanks to Elpulpo & Rebel ! Now having read that little bit more I understand how crucial this process is. I worked in the same job,albeit for several different companies,for over 20 yrs;the last company that we were taken over by came in and basically forced us to sign new contracts,those that didn't,didn't last long. All my benefits and holiday were lost,staff drastically cut and hours increased for less money. A once happy working environment turned into a sweat-shop. As for no-win no-fee,is it okay to say who I chose to represent me ? When I resigned from my last job six months ago,I had no job to go to,I was exhausted mentally and physically,and didn't want the extra stress of understanding the seemingly complex tribunal process. So I basically just went with the first site the Google suggested,up until this part of the process they've been okay,but now they've gone very quiet ! My motivation was never money,just justice. I decided to use a company to deal with all of this because I was so jaded,now I'm more into it,in fact I'm excited by the whole thing ! Come what may I will see out the whole thing,win or lose,I and they know the truth. Thanks again for all your kind advice and if anyone is reading this wondering if they should pursue a claim,my suggestion is to feel the fear and do it anyway !

[hedgehog1234]

Elpulpo,I've got to a point in life where money isn't that important to me,obviously I'm not about the announce to the tribunal that I'm there to make a point,but the truth is,the money doesn't matter. I'm not angry,you're not punished for your anger,you are punished by your anger. I forgive my previous employers' - they are just a symptom - not the cause of the problem,I guess the cause is greed & fear ? I want closure and if I win a considerable amount of any money will be given to charity and of course a generous donation to this board :O)

[elpulpo]

I do understand Hedgehog, poor employers need teaching a lesson.

Just bear in mind you've got your work cut out.

It strikes me that you're persuing a constructive dismissal case; they're notoriously difficult to win.

Your statement of loss is integral to your claim, make sure you can show that you're there for the money, not principal.

[hedgehog1234]

Thanks Elpulpo,yes I have become painfully aware that a constructive dismissal case is hard to win,are there any statistics to that effect ? Would you suggest that I didn't bother ?

[elpulpo]

Obviously Hedgehog, I don't know the specific circumstances.

 

Nor do I claim to be any sort of employment law expert, just have a certain perspective having now been the veteran of 4 ET claims,

 

(when I recently announced to friends that I was self-employed, the response was 'Christ Pulpo, You'll have to sue yourself!')

 

Why not post the circumstances, people can tell ya what they think?

[rebel11]

Hedgehog,

 

Prepare well, cover all the bases. The Chairman and Co are there to help you.

 

Good Luck. Take someone with you for support.

[hedgehog1234]

Okay,I'll summarise the situation,staff in my dept was reduced to increase staff in another dept;as a result I was forced to come in earlier and leave much later,my working day became very long,sometime with no break at all;I was working up to 12 hours a day. I had endured periods like this with previous employers (in the same job) and roughed it out,they appreciated my efforts. However,in this instance my efforts were unfairly criticised and my complaints met with hostility. The situation just got worse to the point where I saw no alternative but to resign. Here I am !

[elpulpo]

It sounds unfair.

But the big problem is that you resigned.

 

Did you go through every avenue of formal grievance prior to that?

 

If not, I think you face an uphill battle.

 

What sort of size was this company?

HR dept? Disciplinary and grievance procedures provided?

[hedgehog1234]

I now know that I should have raised a grievance,but at the time I was burnt out. I just wasn't thinking right. I did attend a grievance meeting but my concerns were twisted and the whole thing was basically a joke. The company is big,not massive but pretty large with lots of fingers in lots of pies. I didn't choose to work for them,I never ever would have,their reputation is to work people to death,in some cases literally !

[elpulpo]

Well, best of luck, whatever you decide.

I think it's pretty wretched how employer in the Uk are allowed to behave.

There should be far more pre-emptive regulation of employment rights-

not just -'we're gonna do whatever we want-you don't like it? take legal action then'.

[hedgehog1234]

I'm going to go ahead,I did become concerned temporarily about the prospect of paying costs but I think that's been put to bed now. Thanks again for all your input and kind support. I think perspective is very important as is being positive and asking at a deep level what is the lesson in this situation for me ? For me it's don't take any more 5hit from anyone,I firmly believe that if you're of the mind that you'll put up with poor conditions - you'll attract that reality,it really is as simple as that.

[elpulpo]

Aye, well all the best.

As suggested in the other 'costs' post I mentioned, it really pays if you can get the chance to sit in at a couple of ET hearings.

Don't know where in the country you are, I just went to the local ET office in Leeds, explained my situation and they told me when similar cases were being heard.

Really gave me a perspective.

Cheers.

[hedgehog1234]

Yes that is a very good idea,quite apart from removing some of tension from actually getting there,finding the building,and where to go etc. I think we all build a mental picture around a forth coming experience,most often it's very inaccurate. If you can rehearse the event and at the same time gain a little knowledge about the process,all the better. I'm going to have a reccy ! :O)

[rebel11]

If at an early stage you feel that you want to settle, you can send them a 'Without Prejudice Save as to Costs” letter.

[hedgehog1234]

Thanks Rebel,I found a sample letter here . I'm still waiting for my so called representitive to come back to me on several emails regards the case. Am I allowed to mention their name here ? Could someone reccommend a firm that would no-win/no-fee ? Or should I just go it alone,as I now appear to be anyway ?

[rebel11]

I'd go to the local CAB office they have experience and could shed light on the merits of your ET claim.

[hedgehog1234]

I'd go to the local CAB office they have experience and could shed light on the merits of your ET claim.

 

I went there,they just gave me an information pack and basically fobbed me off.He wasn't that interested and said making a successful constructive dismissal case was very difficult,especially given that I resigned. So then I opted to use the company that are now ignoring my emails. I of course realise that I should have done things differently but I can't make my case better,it's as it is.

[elpulpo]

As I said Hedgehog, I think you're facing an uphill battle here, and I think you'll struggle to get representation unless you're willing to pay for it.

 

So, unless you're flush, I'd say you're on your own.

 

When's the PHR?

[hedgehog1234]

The company I've mentioned have taken some money from me already and the condition of 30% of any settlement. Now they've,as I said already,gone all shy on me. I received an envelope from them to send all the paperwork and that's the last I've heard. So they have everything. I've just received a letter from the tribunal asking for bundles to be exchanged,I've informed my representative but no reply. What is a PHR please ?