won Claim for return of College fees-service not provided - now Suing for loss of earnings.

[legalpickle]

No the pay increase would happen in Aug 09 because results are released at the end of July 09, so increased wage rate would be effective from the next month. For the new course, the results are released Jan 2010 [this must have been where I confused you], so my pay increase would start from Feb 2010.

 

Exact amount of wages lost between Aug 2009 and Feb 2010 is £1000 ([£2000p.a./12 months] x 6 months).

Monthly please, exactly. If you get paid monthly, interest would be from the pay date each month. What day of the month do you get paid?

 

Problem: As I may have explained previously you can't claim - at least in small claims track - for losses not yet incurred. You've not incurred the loss actually till you pass the exams and get the results, when your wage increases, so you have a problem issuing proceedings now.

The cost of the new course is £2265.

Including books?

 

You've written above teaching costs per subject is 2 x £350 and said this equals £800, but it actually equals £700. You've then below that put the registration fee at £100. Do you mean that the total including registration fee is £800, or is there something I'm not understanding properly?

[needadvice1]

£166.66 monthly extra would be payable.

 

Pay day is teh 27th of each month and this is a weekend, then its the first working day before the 27th.

 

The £2265 includes books.

 

You've understood correctly, its the registration fee + course fees = £100 + 2 x £350= £800

 

One only registers to take courses though, there is no other reason.

 

What if I sue later on for the loss of earnings and sue for the rest now?

[legalpickle]

What did you do for the 2 hour visits each time, or was the minimum parking charge for 2 hours?

 

How much did fuel cost, and how much did your car consume for the 14 mile round trip each time?

[needadvice1]

Re. parking charges, it was 50p per hour and I was at college for a minimum of 2hrs, sometimes longer but at the very least, 2 hrs. I was in class or in the library between classes for this time.

 

Re. fuel cost, based on 25MPG (=5.5 miles per litre of petrol based on 1 gallon being equal to 4.55 litres), the maximum for town driving for my car, means the cost of petrol was 14/5.5= 2.55 litres per trip.

 

How do we quantify the petrol price as it's always fluctuating? Are we supposed to look at historical prices?

[legalpickle]

Re. parking charges, it was 50p per hour and I was at college for a minimum of 2hrs, sometimes longer but at the very least, 2 hrs. I was in class or in the library between classes for this time.

 

Re. fuel cost, based on 25MPG (=5.5 miles per litre of petrol based on 1 gallon being equal to 4.55 litres), the maximum for town driving for my car, means the cost of petrol was 14/5.5= 2.55 litres per trip.

 

How do we quantify the petrol price as it's always fluctuating? Are we supposed to look at historical prices?

Don't you keep receipts for accounting records???

 

I thought you said the course wasn't provided, please explain exactly what happened.

[needadvice1]

No i dont keep accounting records for this type of thing becasue I have no need to.

 

And a small part of the course was provided at a very low standard. I was taking 2 modules there.

 

One was P4, the other P7. P4 teaching started and was OK at the start, but that was only because the teacher was teaching p4 and p5 in the same class (i found this out after i paid) and p4 and p5 material happened to be the same for the first few classes. In the second week I realised the teacher wasnt sure about the syllabus for p4 as I was the only p4 student in the class, the rest were p5. I assumed she would make an effort to actually find out whatI needed to know, but she didnt. This was further evident in the 4th week of teaching when I was asked whether I wanted to stay in the class or study in the library while the rest of the student were to be taught purely p5 material. I asked if I definitely did not need to know this material and was told to check in my book to see if the material was in there. I shouldnt have to do this, thhe teacher should know. The teacher and I then checked in my book and it wasnt there, so I left. When I came back, we came accross a question in the p4 book that the teacher said she had just gone over, I said "we havent done this". The teacher said we just did it, "why didn't you stay in the class? I told you to stay", I then said that " you told me I didnt need to know anything you were teaching and that you would call me back when teaching relevant to me was starting".

 

The week after is when I quit. This is when the p7 class started with a teacher that the president of the company did not know was a teacher, he actually asked him "are you a teacher or a student?". The were 2 students in this class, one was studying for another qualification and so it made it completely impractical for the teacher to teach because of the massively differing syllabi. The other student demanded a refund, got it, and then left.

The p7 class started a month late.

 

I quit after this as it was just too much crap to take and I just could not study/concentrate in that environment.

[needadvice1]

legalpickle? Where are you mate?

[needadvice1]

Can anyone else help? Legalpickle might be in one at the moment.

[legalpickle]

I never received the e-mail updates for your other posts, till the latest post today. I'll try and respond over the next couple of days.

[needadvice1]

Oh thanks very much. I thought you may be busy.

[legalpickle]

Oh thanks very much. I thought you may be busy.

I am, very, but on this occasion my time was not the reason for the lack of response.

[patdavies]

 

£350 x 2 = £800

 

 

Not according to any maths textbook I've ever read.

[legalpickle]

Not according to any maths textbook I've ever read.

Pointed out that mistake already further down the thread.

[needadvice1]

Should have been 350x2=700. I mistakenly included the £100 registration fee.

[needadvice1]

Legal Pickle?

[legalpickle]

I think you have a case. The problem is if they defend you may not get the loss of earnings at this stage. They already have two CCJ's, so there is a risk you won't recover the money, but there's an even higher risk of you not recovering the loss of earnings in 6 months time when you'd be more likely to succeed, even if they defend. The previous two CCJ's were granted in default - meaning they didn't defend.

 

So what do you want to do?

a) Sue now for everything. Hope they don't defend, but if they do have a higher risk of not winning the loss of earnings.

b) Sue now for the direct losses. Higher chance of success, but higher possibility they'll be gone in 6-8 months time when you want to sue for loss of earnings.

 

No case is guaranteed to succeed and you are also not guaranteed to recover your monies, so it's your gamble.

[needadvice1]

HI, thanks for the reply. I was just wondering how you knew the other cases were won by default? Also, recently they have had another judgement against them. And are you able to get details of the cases?

 

I think the best option would be to sue now for direct costs, then sue later (if they are around of course) for the loss of earnings.

 

So essentially I'll be breaking my claim up into two parts rather than the one claim for everything.

 

I am looking at the this option because I know that they have experience in these sorts of matters and so would probably know that I wouldn't be able to claim for the loss of earnings and so would dispute the claim. Unless I am able to bring the same claim twice, is this allowed?

 

What do you think?

Edited July 4, 2009 by needadvice1

[legalpickle]

HI, thanks for the reply. I was just wondering how you knew the other cases were won by default? Also, recently they have had another judgement against them. And are you able to get details of the cases?

No, I can't get details of the cases. You may be able to write to Northampton CCBC to see if they'll give you a copy of the claim form, as it should be public record, but I can only electronically (for free at least) obtain the claim number, court where judgment was granted, amount and date judgment issued.

 

It is obvious they are judgments in default. They were granted in Northampton CCBC, which means that no hearing was necessary - i.e. judgment was granted in default.

 

In addition, with near probability they couldn't have been issued much before the judgment dates, because the claim numbers wouldn't make sense.

 

They only have two judgments against them on the record, both granted in Northampton CCBC:

£1,783 Granted: 1st June 2009, 9QT41340

£1,147 Granted: 22nd January 2009, 8QG76911

 

The irony is they could have paid the 1st June one till last week and had the judgment removed from their record. I believe that may be the recent one you're referring to as I thought they had another one, but that may have been removed if they paid in full within a month and somebody told the court it was paid within a month. I can't find that out though.

 

I think the best option would be to sue now for direct costs, then sue later (if they are around of course) for the loss of earnings.

 

So essentially I'll be breaking my claim up into two parts rather than the one claim for everything.

 

I am looking at the this option because I know that they have experience in these sorts of matters and so would probably know that I wouldn't be able to claim for the loss of earnings and so would dispute the claim. Unless I am able to bring the same claim twice, is this allowed?

 

What do you think?

No you definitely can't bring the same claim twice, that's called double claiming and is illegal. They'd definitely figure that out!

 

What sort of experience do you think they have in these sorts of matters? Have they defended claims by other students and succeeded? Any information could assist your claim.

[needadvice1]

16/11/2005NORTHAMPTON CCBC£1458Judgement5XJ30947

Above is the other claim that I see on CreditSafe, not sure why you can't see it.

 

I just get the impression that they know a bit about the law because they kept telling me to approach a legal advisor if I want my money back.

 

I think maybe I should break my claim up into two parts then, just to be safe. So does that mean I can claim for everthing but the delay of earnings?

 

FYI I have tried on two occasions to get the case details off Northampton CCBC but they won't give it out. They say I ahve to either be the claimmant or defendant.

[legalpickle]

16/11/2005NORTHAMPTON CCBC£1458Judgement5XJ30947

Above is the other claim that I see on CreditSafe, not sure why you can't see it.

 

I just get the impression that they know a bit about the law because they kept telling me to approach a legal advisor if I want my money back.

 

I think maybe I should break my claim up into two parts then, just to be safe. So does that mean I can claim for everthing but the delay of earnings?

 

FYI I have tried on two occasions to get the case details off Northampton CCBC but they won't give it out. They say I ahve to either be the claimmant or defendant.

I'm not using CreditSafe but Riskdisk. Don't know why it's not showing up. What Northampton CCBC are telling you is untrue.

 

I get the impression they know next to nothing about the Law. Why would somebody telling you to get legal help mean that they themselves have legal knowledge? I don't follow that logic.

 

I would recommend writing a final LBA to them now and in 7 days issuing. It should be made clear in the letter that you are reserving the right to claim for loss of earnings and intend to issue such a claim at a later date unless they cover the loss in advance. It should be noted that you cannot prevent incurring this loss, without incurring a bigger loss.

 

If you post a draft of the letter and post it up here, I'll proof it for you.

[needadvice1]

"It should be noted that you cannot prevent incurring this loss, without incurring a bigger loss."... I dont understand this, pls explain? Do you mean to say that the college cannot avoid incurring this loss? What is the bigger loss?

 

Also, is there any legal jargon etc. I can pull out during a conversation with the CCBC? I tried all the "logical" arguments I could e.g. why are there libararies full of court cases if they are confidential? and why protect companies that are doing harm to others? why are court cases often dicussed in newspapaers/law magasines etc. if they are confidential?

 

Nothing worked.

[legalpickle]

"It should be noted that you cannot prevent incurring this loss, without incurring a bigger loss."... I dont understand this, pls explain? Do you mean to say that the college cannot avoid incurring this loss? What is the bigger loss?

What I mean is exactly as I wrote. You cannot avoid incurring that loss of earnings, therefore you'll be claiming for it. The law is that you're under a duty to mitigate your losses, but in this circumstance you can't.

 

Also, is there any legal jargon etc. I can pull out during a conversation with the CCBC? I tried all the "logical" arguments I could e.g. why are there libararies full of court cases if they are confidential? and why protect companies that are doing harm to others? why are court cases often dicussed in newspapaers/law magasines etc. if they are confidential?

 

Nothing worked.

Calling the CCBC is your mistake. You probably spoke to a bunch of people barely out of high school, if you were lucky.

 

None of your "arguments" are "logical" and there are numerous "logical" answers.

 

You should write a letter to;

The Court Manager,

Northampton County Court Bulk Centre,

4th floor, St Katharine's House,

21-27 St Katharine's Street,

Northampton,

Northamptonshire,

NN1 2LH

 

Send it special delivery. Post a draft here and I'll try to proof it for you. By law court proceedings are public record. Make clear that if they want they can black out the claimant's address and personal details. You know the defendant's address - provide it in the letter. Make clear you're only asking for a copy of the claim form.

[needadvice1]

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to you today to request the claim forms of three cases made against ....Ltd. The case numbers are as follows:

 

5XJ30947

8QG76911

9QT41340

 

The reason for my request is that I will be bringing a claim against ...Ltd. located at .......address...., very soon and would like to be as prepared as possible.

 

I do not mind if you blank out any personal details, all I am interested in are the particulars of the claims.

 

You can reach me on ..... if you have any questions.

Edited July 5, 2009 by needadvice1

[legalpickle]

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to you today to request the claim forms of three cases made against ....Ltd. The case numbers are as follows:

 

5XJ30947

8QG76911

9QT41340

 

The reason for my request is that I will be bringing a claim against ...Ltd. located at .......address...., very soon and would like to be as prepared as possible.

 

I do not mind if you blank out any personal details, all I am interested in are the particulars of the claims.

 

You can reach me on ..... if you have any questions.

Too many details.

 

I propose as follows;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am writing to request copies of the claim forms for the following claim numbers;

- 5XJ30947

- 8QG76911

- 9QT41340

 

All were issued against ... and judgment in default was granted in all of them.

 

It is my understanding that court claims are of public record and any person may request copies of them. I therefore respectfully request that you send me copies of these claim forms as soon as physically possible.

 

Should you wish to black out the Claimant's details on the copies of these claims I have no objection.

 

Sincerely,

[needadvice1]

yep that looks better, thanks

 

I'll get started on the LBA too