Goodison v Yorkshire Bank

[caro]

As I understand it this is a business account and Goodison was using consumer law in his POC which was not applicable, so YB threatened to apply for the case to be struck out. The POC was amended to suit a business claim and still got struck out, but with no explanation.

 

I am trying to get advice on how to proceed with this as many businesses have had successful claims, although I'm not sure if anyone has taken YB on for a business claim.

[moss]

I would of thought "'consumers' as a business" is a business account and YB are claiming that "The claimant does not fall within this definition" Just my two bob's worth but if this is the case wouldn't it explain why it was struck out even though the claim was amended.Also if UCTA is good enough for claims against other banks i don't see how it could be different for YB

[LizzyBee]

Hi Goodison,

 

If you look at the thread Business Claims Against Yorkshire Bank I have put up details of a letter received today regarding my friends business account. I dont know if what they are saying is correct, haven't had time to check it out yet or ask any of the mods for their opinion. However you may find it an interesting read.

 

Don't give up I am sure we will find a way eventually

 

Best Regards

 

Lizzy

[tifo]

i just got the same standard letter back, word for word .... for the prelim i sent for my personal account i had a while ago.

 

does anyone have a decent reply to send to them or just wait 14 days and issue an LBA?

[Goodison]

Thank you Karneveil, Moss, Caro and Lizzybee.

 

This is such an ambiguous issue isn't it, both with regard to the wording of my original claim (where my sole trader/business status appeared to invalidate it) and the mysterious way in which my amended claim was struck out with no explanation?

 

However, even though the YB are determined to be the most obnoxious and obstinate of them all, it is NOT their stance which is a problem at the moment. Instead, it is the court's intransigence which, at present, is stalling me completely.

 

If other business claims have been succesfully pursued, then how did they differ from mine? If someone can tell me how they did it, I will follow precisely in their footsteps.

 

If a court (and presumably Northampton, where mine is being routed through), has granted them a hearing, then I must be able to do the same? It is only then that the YB can begin to have an influence?

 

So if my claim using UCTA has been struck out - yet someone else's has succeeded - I need to know when and where so that I can re-instate mine using that case as a precedent.

 

This is not so much a personal thing now as a more widespread forum matter. Why has the court taken this stance with me?

[Goodison]

STOP PRESS: I have just received a reply to one of my numerous queries to the court which might help.

 

Having stated I was not satisfied with my claim having been struck out for no apparent reason, I have finally been informed (after three phone calls and four e-mails):

 

'With regard to your e-mail received this afternoon, there is a letter from Clydesdale Bank in your claim file stating that they intended to apply for an order to strike out the claim pursuant to CPR part 3.4(2)©.'

 

Hmmmm, CPR part 3.4(2)© - what the hell is that?

 

More to the point, does it apply to my original claim, or to the amended version where I just relied upon UCTA?

 

It surely must refer to the original claim, as the amended particulars had not been served, therefore the bank could not have applied for THEM to be struck out? Have the court got their legal knickers in a twist?

[photoman]

STOP PRESS: I have just received a reply to one of my numerous queries to the court which might help.

 

Having stated I was not satisfied with my claim having been struck out for no apparent reason, I have finally been informed (after three phone calls and four e-mails):

 

'With regard to your e-mail received this afternoon, there is a letter from Clydesdale Bank in your claim file stating that they intended to apply for an order to strike out the claim pursuant to CPR part 3.4(2)©.'

 

Hmmmm, CPR part 3.4(2)© - what the hell is that?

 

More to the point, does it apply to my original claim, or to the amended version where I just relied upon UCTA?

 

It surely must refer to the original claim, as the amended particulars had not been served, therefore the bank could not have applied for THEM to be struck out? Have the court got their legal knickers in a twist?

 

 

Just done a Google on CPR 3.4 part 2 sec c and got this. I've put the part they are refering to in Bold.

 

 

Power to strike out a statement of case 3.4 (1)In this rule and rule 3.5, reference to a statement of case includes reference to part of a statement of case.

(2)The court may strike out (GL) a statement of case if it appears to the court –

(a)that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

(b)that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

©that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

(3)When the court strikes out a statement of case it may make any consequential order it considers appropriate.

(4)Where –

(a)the court has struck out a claimant’s statement of case;

(b)the claimant has been ordered to pay costs to the defendant; and

©before the claimant pays those costs, he starts another claim against the same defendant, arising out of facts which are the same or substantially the same as those relating to the claim in which the statement of case was struck out,

 

the court may, on the application of the defendant, stay (GL) that other claim until the costs of the first claim have been paid.

(5)Paragraph (2) does not limit any other power of the court to strike out (GL) a statement of case.

(6)If the court strikes out a claimant's statement of case and it considers that the claim is totally without merit –

(a)the court's order must record that fact; and

(b)the court must at the same time consider whether it is appropriate to make a civil restraint order.

[photoman]

PART 3 - THE COURT’S CASE MANAGEMENT POWERS

 

And heres the link.

[LizzyBee]

Hi Goodison, Well everything seems to be geting a bit technical now.

 

Looking at photoman's post in particular the bit in bold ©that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order. Does this indicate that you did not follow the proper procedure? Is it possible you made an error in some of your paperwork? Not pointing the finger just trying to interprete the statement.

 

Also this bit: (6)If the court strikes out a claimant's statement of case and it considers that the claim is totally without merit –

(a)the court's order must record that fact; and........

 

Does this not mean that they have to give you a proper explanation for the strike out?

 

Sorry I am not much help jst posting my thoughts.

[caro]

CPR's can be very useful and worthy of study when making a claim. Google CPR and you'll find them all.

[LizzyBee]

Will do caro. Just wondered are we allowed to quote cases from here that we know have suceeded on our own POC.

 

Thanx

 

Lizzy.

[photoman]

Sorry to hijack here, but I know that this question has already been posted and discussed somewhat here, so is relevant.

 

Can someone definitively clear up exactly what points of law, precedents, statutes etc CAN & CANNOT be cited and used in Business claims. If possible with a simple list of the usual laws, cases & statutes usually cited in consumer claims followed by a simple yes, no or unsure.

 

Mine is a Business claim too, and I've recived conflicting opinions as to exactly what laws can and cannot be used.

 

Perhaps we need a dedicated Business claims thread, complete with stickies of amended POC's etc for Business claimants, as there seems to be more and more appearing on site.

[caro]

It is precisely because we don't have a definitive answer that there aren't the templates available. It is also the reason for the sticky at the top of this forum so people can easily link to the business claims against Yorkshire and Clydesdale.

 

Lizzy, if you want to quote cases from here you are best using the litigation section where you will find court claim numbers etc. The information in there has been provided by CAG user claimants.

[LizzyBee]

Hi Goodison, how you doin. Hope you haven't given up the fight!

 

Just to let you know that we have today submitted the N1 to Warwick County Court for £13.5K naming our local branch in Leamington Spa as the Defendant. My friend and I stood outside the court for half an hour debating whether to take it in or not. Then we thought *** them they didn't think twice about adding the charges. We also sent a letter to Neil McKirdy informing him of the action we had taken. Can't wait for the reply.

 

Keep your chin up.

 

regards

 

Lizzy

[hoogie32]

Well In Lizzy - Keep Us Informed.

[caro]

Let me know if you ever need a court buddy for moral support. I'm about 10 minutes away from Warwick.

[LizzyBee]

Thanx Caro, much appreciated.

 

Lizzy

[anji46]

what has happened with your claim?

[LizzyBee]

Update.

 

Just received the AQ. Will be submitting it tomorrow.

 

Lizzy

[Goodison]

Hello and thanks to everyone who has contributed in my absence.

 

I have had no option but to let this lie fallow for a few weeks due to work commitments, but back on the case now.

 

I am still getting no definitive answer from the courts as to WHY my claim was struck out and am still of the opinion that the YB's request to do so has been allowed against my original claim - not the amended particulars (which removed the reference to consumer legisliation).

 

Having hit a brick wall with the Northampton helpline, I have two options it appears:

 

1) Write and ask that the case be re-instated. This would be on the grounds that it has been struck out for no relevant reason (part ©: that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order - not being approriate in any shape or form), and that the Yorkshire Bank's letter referred to my original claim and was therefore not relevant either. They would not have known about my amended claim until it had been served on them - which due to it being struck out, it hasn't been so far.

 

2) Pay a non-refundable £100 and apply for the strike out to be overturned on a form N244. However, I would seem to be able to achieve the same thing for nothing with a letter?

 

The helpline advisor suggested I take legal advice on the strike out, so I am going round in ever decreasing circles here through a lack of information.

 

Would I simply be better scrapping the whole thing and starting again with a new claim - using the template specifically for businesses and citing the precedents of Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79. along with Murray v Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963?

 

This would appear to be a much more expedient route, if I am allowed to do it?

 

Finally, I repeat my request for anyone who has successfully claimed on behalf of a business, to let me know how they did it. If it worked for them, it surely must work for me?

[caro]

I'm seeking advice for you Goodison.

[Goodison]

Thanks Caro - much appreciated as usual.

[photoman]

HOT OFF THE PRESS;

 

A business account, just settled for £19k of charges !!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/26925-business-account-over-19-a.html

[caro]

You beat me to it photoman. I thought Goodison might be interested in this too.

[photoman]

You beat me to it photoman. I thought Goodison might be interested in this too.

 

Caro,

Nice to know we're all looking out for each other.

I also sent Goodison a PM with the link, and got a response to say we have renewed their vim and vigour !

 

Job done !

 

Have you seen the new development regards the OFT ??

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/70359-about-oft-impending-report-8.html#post685584

 

 

From post 158 onwards.

 

I like the comment posted regards Martin Lewis.

 

LOL !!