Hi, I phoned Abbey today and they said they were putting all claims on hold until the 'Test Case' results but I am going ahead with issuing my claim anyway as my local court said they are not automatically 'staying' the claims. Good Luck, I would stick to your timetable as the 'Test Case' could take 12 months. Lizzy

Hi, Some of you may know me from the Yorkshire Bank Forum where I was dealing with a business claim for a friend (£10.5K repaid). I have finally gotten round to dealing with my own claim against Abbey. My claim is for £2880.00 before interest. I am just about to put my claim through the court and checked the Abbey website to see what their stand was going to be on the OFT 'Test Case' business. Here it is: Bank charges What is happening? On 27 July, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), 7 UK banks and a building society started a court case to decide on the legality of unauthorised overdraft charges. This case is called a "test case" because the decision will clarify the law in this area and is likely to apply to all current and new claims against current account providers about unauthorised overdraft charges. We will continue to post updates on our website to keep customers informed of progress on the test case as this could run for at least a year. What will happen to customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges? Most banks and building societies will not be dealing with or resolving customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain about your unauthorised overdraft charges, we will write to tell you that we have received your complaint and that we will record it on your file. When a final decision is reached in the test case, we will contact you as soon as possible to tell you how we will resolve your complaint. We will apply the decision in the court case to all complaints we receive. Why are the banks allowed to stop dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints during the test case? We applied to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for a suspension of the normal timetable for dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints. The FSA decided that, in the circumstances [it was appropriate to grant us a suspension of our obligations under the FSA's complaint handling rules while we sought legal certainty on this issue. The suspension is subject to a series of conditions designed to protect customers' rights. You can read the form of the FSA suspension here: www.fsa.gov.uk All customers who have made a written complaint on unauthorised overdraft charges but who have not yet had their complaint resolved will receive a letter to explain the position with respect to their complaint. Can I make a court claim for a refund during the test case? Yes, but we will apply to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case. Can I complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about my bank charges? The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) has decided not to review complaints while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining that. What if I have already been made an offer? We will stand by any offer to settle a complaint or court claim that we have already made to our customers. If you have received an offer to settle from us, we will be writing to you again shortly. Our letter will explain that customers have two months to decide whether to refuse our offer and wait for the decision in the test case. If you do choose to refuse an offer, your complaint or claim we will be held and recorded by us until there is a final decision in the "test case". We will then contact you again as soon as possible to finally resolve your complaint. I have already accepted an offer from you. Will my claim be revisited? If you have accepted a 'full and final settlement', we believe it unlikely you would be awarded a further sum even if the test case indicates a potentially larger amount. However, this does not preclude you from asking for repayment of any new charges incurred if the courts find they are unlawful. How long will the "test case" take? At this time it is too soon to give any exact timescales for a conclusion to the "test case" but it could go on for more than a year. We have agreed with the OFT and the FSA to conduct the test case in an efficient, prompt and orderly way. Where can I find out more? There is more information on our website www.abbey.com. Customers can contact us by calling 08456 022631 where they will hear an automated announcement and can then speak to an advisor. Alternatively, you can find more information through the following links: The Financial Services Authority: www.fsa.gov.uk The Office of Fair Trading: www.oft.gov.uk The Financial Ombudsman Service: www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk I have today contacted the Warwick County Court and they are not aware of any claim being stayed automatically pending the outcome of the 'Test Case' so I am going ahead with my claim. Will keep you posted. Lizzy

Hi Higgy YB always ask for a stay - just their usual delay tactics. Dont worry about it. Lizzy.

Hi everyone. Just to say that my friend received an offer of £10.5K today which he is going to accept. Not the outcome I wanted, I was quite willing and in an odd way quite looking forward to taking the claim to the wire. However it is his money and he has made his decision. Can I take this opportunity to thank everyone, especially caro and zoot, for all their help and encouragement. A donation will follow in due course. I can now concentrate on my own claims against Yorkshire and Abbey. Once again many thanks to you all for your help and support. Best Regards Lizzy

Thank you caro I very much appreciate your offer and may well take you up on it when the time comes. Zoot contacted me and said that Bankfodder wanted to speak to me regarding the claim. I am expecting a call in the next couple of days, I will update you as soon as I know anything. One thing you may be able to answer for me. As you know I am doing this claim for a very dear friend of mine. All the paperwork so far has been in his name. However I know that there is no way he would be able to stand up in court and state his claim. I am more than willing and capable (I think) of doing it. Is there anyway that I can now get my name included as his representative without disrupting everything. I would appreciate any info you can give me on that. Regards Lizzy

Need Help Please. Following Directions received. District Judge A S Jones has considered the statements of case and AQ's filed and allocated the claim to the multi-track. Any party affected by this order may apply to the court to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such application must be made in accordance with CPR Part 23 within 7 days of service of this order by 4.00pm on 24th May 2007. 1. The claim is being transfered to the Civil Trial Centre at Coventry County Court where all future applications, correspondence and so on will be dealt with. 2. It is recorded that the Defendant has indicated willingness to mediate the Claim but that the Claimant is not willing to mediate. The Court at trial may require a party to justify any decision not to mediate, and, if it considers that decision inappropriate, take it into account when considering costs. 3. By 4.00 pm on 31 May 2007 the Claimant is to provide the Court and the Defendant with a written schedule setting out:- a) Details of each and every statutory provision, regulation or contract term upon which the Claimant relies to demonstrate that the charges should not have been levied by the Defendant and: b) Details of the facts upon which the Claimant relies to demonstrate that the charges are unfair or otherwise wrongfully levied by the Defendant. 4. The Claimant shall give to the Defendant standard disclosure of documents relating to special damages with a disclosure statement no later than 4.00 pm on 25 June 2007. 5. All requests for inspection of (or copies of) documents must be made by 4.00 pm on 2 July 2007. 6. The parties mutually disclose by 4.00 pm on 23 July 2007 the signed statements of all witnesses of fact on whose evidence they intend to rely together with any notices to rely on hearsay evidence. (No party may adduce the evidence of any witness of fact whose statement has not been disclosed unless the trial judge gives special permission). 7. No expert evidence being necessary no party has permission to call or rely on expert evidence. 8. Each party must file a completed Listing Questionnaire (pre-trial checklist) by 4.00 pm on 6 August 2007. The parties must file with their listing questionnaires a succinct case summary and schedule of issues (which they must seek to agree), and if any party seeks leave to call oral exper evidence, copies of the relevant reports and any joint statements and/or replies to questions. 9. The claim will be tried during the 3 week period ("the trial window") commencing on 17 September 2007 to 5 October 2007. The provisional time stimate for the trial is 1 day and the parties must inform the court if that estimate varies. 10. The parties are reminded of the provisions of the Practice Directions to [CPR 28 (Fast Track)] [CPr29 (Multi Track)] concerning variation of direction and failure to comply with directions, and in particular of the time within applications to the court should be made. caro and zoot I would very much appreciate some contact regarding the above. Thank You Lizzy

Hello again, have been away for a while due to ill health, but back on track now. Have had another offer from YB but they have still not included the 'Debit Under Advice' charges. Phoned the court on Friday and they have had the directions back from the Judge which they say will be sent shortly. Have therefore decided to hold fire on the N244 until I see what the Judge's Directions are. I have still not received a copy of YB's AQ, are they in breech of anything by not ending me a copy? Would appreciate any comments. By the way caro love the new avatar, what you got brewing in that coldron lol.

Hi caro, There were some charges included on the original claim that I now know I should not have included. However in their offer they have not included 'Debit Under Advice' and they have also missed some charges altogether. I have not had a court order for the stay but they have asked for one on the Mediation Scheme Reply Form. I refused mediation and gave my reasons for doing so. I have not heard anything from the court since I sent the AQ on3 April. I know they are very busy but do you think I should chase them to see what the state of play is? I am not going to do the N244 yet as you never know I may get a positive response from my last letter. Thanx Lizzy

Hi caro, No - the N244 is to change the amount of the claim. Having received a copy of their charges schedule which they based their offer figure on there are some things I claimed for which I should not have. That said there are some things i.e. the Debit Under Advice charges which they say I cant claim but I am leaving on. Also they have missed some charges altogether. Lizzy

Following letter sent to Ms Ross on 27 April; I refer to your letter of 18/04/07, regarding the above claim the contents of which have been noted. Your schedule of charges has indicated that ‘Debit Under Advice’ is not claimable when I know that you have repaid these to other claimants, case no 6QZ40257 in the Warwick County Court to name but one. As your offer is inconsistent and your comments somewhat confusing it is now my intention to issue an N244 and let the courts decide on the outcome. In view of the CYNthesys revelations I have no doubt that the court will find in my favour. May I also point out that in your letter of 10 April 2007 you indicated that a copy of your allocation questionnaire was enclosed which, in fact it was not. Please therefore forward a copy at your earliest convenience. Lizzy

Hi Higgy welcome. I have a claim going on with YB for a friend who is in business. Don't expect them to give in easily you will have to fight all the way as I am finding out, but with all the help and advice available here you will get through it. You just need a lot of patience. The very best of luck with your claim. Here is my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/63057-business-accounts.html Hope you may find some useful info there. Lizzy

Hi - Following letter will be sent to Ms Ross unles someone edits . I refer to your letter of 18/04/07, regarding the above claim the contents of which have been noted. In my continuing effort to reach an amicable solution to my claim I would like to point out the following. 1. s.32 of the Limitations Act will allow me to claim pre 6 years on the basis that the Whistleblower disclosures show that there has been concealment. 2. A Claimant can charge for their time in bringing a claim if it is allocated to fast track. As I had to complete a N150 AQ I strongly suspect that this claim will go that route. 3. As previously stated I do concede that there are some things I cannot claim. However, I am at a loss as to why you have not included ‘Debit Under Advice’ amounts in your offer, particularly as you have paid them to other claimants. Claim No. 6Q240257 In the Warwick County Court in January 2007 to name but one. Your inconsistency is both misleading and confusing. Taking all the above into account, I would again ask you to review your offer. I now feel that I have given you every opportunity to reach a fair settlement in regard to this claim therefore if your reply does not reflect this I shall cease correspondence with you and continue with my claim through the courts. I will issue an N244 and will also be making an application to remove the stay, and pointing out to the court that as you have never actually taken a case through the courts you are simply using this as a delaying tactic. I would also respectfully remind you that the interest element as increasing by the day and you will of course be eligible to pay this when I win my case. Would appreciate any comments. Thanx Lizzy

caro, could you please clarify about claiming for 'Debit Under Advice' as they have not allowed these on my claim. Thank You Lizzy

Update. Following letter received from Ms Ross. Without Prejudice save as to costs. 'Please find enclosed the Banks calculation which clarifies how the Bank came to its offer of £xxxxxx. The Bank is not prepared to increase this offer for the reasons set out below. Any application by you to amend your claim will be rigorously opposed by the Bank. The Bank is however, in the interests of reaching a commercial settlement, prepared to keep the offer open for acceptance to 30th April. The Bank believes this to be a fair offer in all circumstances. As regards the further claims you believe you have: 1. A Claimant cannot charge for their time in bringing a claim. You therefore have no legal basis to claim for an hourly rate of £9.25 for time spent compiling the claim. 2. The Limitation Act 1980 provides that claims require to be brought within 6 years of the claim arising, otherwise the claim is barred. 3. It is for Claimants to bring whatever claim they believe they have. You have chosen to claim interest at the statutory rate and not the contractual rate. In any event, the Bank is not prepared to make any offer towards your claim for interest on the basis that interest is awarded at the courts discretion and the Bank does not believe the court would award interest in the circumstances of this case. The charges were incurred solely as a result of the manner in which you chose to run your account. The offer to refund them is made only on an ex gratia basis. If you wish to acept please sign and return the enclosed duplicate of this letter, and the Notice of Discontinuance which the Bank will hold as undelivered until payment of the settlement sum has been made to you. Thereafter the Bank will lodge the Notice with the Court. This letter is written only in an attempt to resolve this case without the need to incur further court time. it is therefore without prejudice to the Bank's whole rights and pleas and may not be referred to without the Bank's written consent. Please note however, that should this offer not be accepted by you, the Bank will refer the Court to this letter when deciding the costs to be awarded in the case.' I would appreciate any comments anyone may have. I am currently checking the Bank's list of charges against the claim and will post my findings when this is complete. Lizzy

Hi Zoo, As I said right from the start this claim is for a close friend of mine and no he is not paying me. I owe him a big favour for helping me out in the past and saw this as a good way of paying him back. Lizzy

I Will be sending the following to Miss Ross tomorrow unless anyone can make any suggestions or alterations. Dear Ms Ross, Account No: XXXXX I refer to your letter of 10/04/07, regarding the above account. I am writing this letter to you in good faith and as an indication of my willingness to enter into dialogue with you in an effort to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. This is not an indication that I am willing to accept your offer but merely an opportunity for some clarification and compromise on both sides. In your recent communication you have made me an offer of £xxxx, I would be most interested to know how you have arrived at this figure and would very much appreciate a schedule listing the charges that your offer covers. I was disappointed that you have not offered any interest on the charges particularly as there are some things which I have not claimed for i.e. hourly rate of £9.25 whilst compiling the claim, making a claim for charges prior to 6 six years which I now know I can do. Also the fact that I have only claimed statutory 8% interest and not contractual which would be significantly more. I do not feel that your offer fully reflects the strain, anxiety and pressure that I was put under by your bank making these penalties despite speaking to my Branch Manager when I faced financial difficulty. In view of the recent Whistle Blower programme and the revelations made regarding your banks operating practices in particular CYNtheSys I feel I have a very strong case and I am quite willing to see this matter through to its full conclusion through the courts unless you substantially increase the offer you have made. Yours Faithfully

caro, I have picked up a post you made in the following thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/51327-my-mum-2-yorkshire.html?highlight=debit+under+advice quote: 'I had some debits under advice that I'm claiming for. They let some payments through which I don't think had anything to do with cheques, and I'm sure I didn't lose or have anything stolen, so I have claimed them. Also, I have now had YB's own version of what they charged me and they have included them. Can you tell me did they repay all of these amounts. Could you please clarify the following for me, quote: 'Also when you complete your court claim and add on the 8% statutory interest, you can claim interest on the interest you are claiming, and if it goes back a long way that's worth having too'. Thanx Lizzy

Update. I have received an offer from Yorkshire for, can you believe it, LESS than 50% of the claim. They have also indicated that they wish to try mediation and have asked for a stay until 22/05/07. The last paragraph states 'This offer will remain open for 7 days from todays date. This offer is made on an open basis. If it is not accepted, it will be drawn to the court's attention on the question of costs and your clients' unreasonableness in proceeding with the claim. We look forward to hearing from you (I bet they are, but they won't be hearing what they want to hear). It is now my intention to open dialoque with them, in writing of course. I will be interested to hear how they came up with the amount they have offered. I will be pointing out to them things like claiming beyond 6 years etc and that we are if necessary prepared to see the claim through to it's full conclusion. Any comments anyone may have would be appreciated. Lizzy

Hi Caro yes I was told that when I submitted the AQ, of course we also have the Easter break to contend with. Still waited this long so a fer more days wont hurt. I will update as soon as I hear anything. Lizzy

Update; AQ & Draft Order delivered to court today. Copies sent to Kirstie Ross. Waiting game now (again). Lizzy

Thank you Zoot/Gizzy/Caro. Will revise AQ and submit today. Many thanks again for your help. Lizzy

Thank You Zoot. A couple of question's before I submit AQ. Section H - Other Information. Have you attached documents to this questionnaire. As I am attaching Draft Order I presume I should say yes. Have you sent these documents to the other party. Again I presume yes as I will be sending it with the AQ. If yes, when did they receive them. Is it ok to put 'Not Known' here? Finally on the Mediation Scheme Reply Form what should I put as my reasons for refusing to mediate. Regards Lizzy

Hi, Could someone please cast their eye over the Draft Order below and the attached AQ before I submit them. Thanx Lizzy In the Warwick County Court Claim Number XXXXXX Between XXXXXX – Claimant And Clydesdale Bank PLC T/A Yorkshire Bank The Claimant wishes to point out that these were the orders given in the Mercantile court and would respectfully request that the judge grants these orders. Draft Order for Directions The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court: a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made; b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made; c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise; d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon. If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order. 2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed; a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon; b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not; c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was; d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable. e) Disclosure of CyntheSis f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon. If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order AQ scan.pdf

Issue the claim tifo. Don't let them grind you down, that's what they are hoping for. Lizzy

Have now received AQ. Is there anything that can be added to the template in view of the Whistle Blower revelations. Would appreciate any comments. Lizzy