Newlyn impersonating a bailiff, supported by Ealing Police, forced to pay

[FairPlay77]

well i know you are narked - but seldom have i seen so much misinformation and old wives tales on one thread before

a policeman does not have to know the bailiff laws although it helps - his sole reason for attendence is to prevent a breach of the peace- more often but not always because the debtor is threatening the bailiff quote]

 

WHERE have you been all your life if you really believe that 'more often or not' in such situations it is the debtor who is threatening the bailiff'! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[hazza]

diddydicky, my comments in post 66 - what on earth did I do???? Do you not have a sense of humour? A necessity for anyone having to deal with the bailiffs is a sense of humour, otherwise it's all too stressful. I sympathise - unconditionally - with all fellow CAG'ers who have experienced unfair and illegal treatment by bailiffs. As for your points - thank you for explaining, however much you say appears incorrect - can you please elaborate??? e.g. you say "the bailiff does NOT have to be certified to act on this warrant" - however I understood that only a certificated bailiff could levy road traffic debt - anyone without a certificate is not a bailiff - and can only support a certificated bailiff, i.e. no certificate, no levy

[diddydicky]

fairplay- when i referred to threats i was referring to threats of violence not threats of what legal action might be taken

 

i have no axe to grind - i am not the spokesperson for the bailiff industry - just giving my opinion from my experience

 

i have dealt with thousands of warrants - how many bailiffs have you dealt with!

 

The bailiff industry whilst not perfect by any means has undergone radical change over the last 2/3 years and whilst there will always be bad apples as in any profession- the standards have (had to) vastly improved

largely through forums like this and customer awareness of their rights

 

 

(in my opinion)

[diddydicky]

Hazza hi, yes i do have (an enormous) sense of humour even after it was dented one day for a while when a man not even connected with a warrant i was serving decided to hit me over the head with a lump of wood from behind and shove me face first down the concrete stairs.

 

so forgive me if me and the family (yes we do have children and families) don't accept that it is ok even in a joke to perpetuate the use of violence towards bailiffs or police officers who are only doing their jobs

 

my advice and that of others "from the other side" are to try to help and educate people to understand what are their rights and to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to advice which often (although well meaning) can be incorrect)

 

there. had my say - were all friends again now!

[diddydicky]

types of bailiff - types of debt - you need to look it up

[hazza]

OK, I understand that you were the victim of a crime when at work - that's a true crime and I hope the police did their job and seek justice. I'm sorry but the statement: "me and the family don't accept that it is ok even in a joke to perpetuate the use of violence..." does not make sense - that's on par with comments about religious cartoons we all heard about a year or so ago - a joke is a joke and i do not believe i could have offended anyone, except victims of brutality from police at the recent events? have you ever seen punch and judy? sometimes pain is only relieved when you can laugh at it, ever cried thru laughter?

[diddydicky]

hi again hazza

 

your " joke" as you refer to it is in fact a criminal offence - an incitement to violence

 

your attitude to life as revealed through your posts and your reasoning and attempts to justify your comments as humour is frightening

 

can we just now stick to the advice part of the forum

 

thanks

[humbleman]

ILLUMINATI

 

if the couple are man and wife then the bailiff can seize irrespcetive of whether they are only in one partners name they are regarded as jointly owned property

 

WRONG

[diddydicky]

illuminati you must decide which advice to take - i can only offer the benefit of my (many years) experience

[STA]

Hazza, please be wary of the advice you are receiving. Even though diddydickie has years of bailiff experience, I believe alot of what he is saying is more relied on experience and less reliant on fact and law.

Firstly, if you were to call the police regarding the clamping, you would be told that it is a civil matter (which it is) and to obtain legal advice on what you can do, as they cannot attend or advise. So I'm suprised they attended when the bailiff called them?

Secondly, it is illegal for any bailiff company to employ an uncertified bailiff and it is illegal for that bailiff to levy on any goods.

Finally, the bailiff cannot levy on goods that is in the name of anyone other than the persons whose name is on the warrant of execution. The warrant is produced by the authorities but authorised by the TEC and they will only authorise it if there is a name and address of the person who the pcn was originally addressed to on it. It is wrong to believe that if a property/good is in one partners name, it is automatically jointly owned by both partners/couple.

 

I hope this helps!!!

[diddydicky]

well my reading of his posts was that the bailiff called the police because hazza got the dog out to introduce it to them ( which i am fairly confident in beleiving that what he meant was to threaten them with!

 

secondly not all debts require certification and although certain client s insist in it this is still the case

 

third the bailiff may levy on ANY goods in the property which he beleives to be owned or jointly owned by the debtor and it is for the OWNER (not the person named on the warrant) to prove otherwise,

 

clearly if genuine shop receipts can be provided on the spot the more reasonable bailiff will discount them btu otherwise he is allowed to list and even remove them and the owner only has a limited time to prove ownership before auction

 

if he fails to act within that time (except in exceptional circumstances) he loses any future claim to the goods

 

to clarify the last point in the case of husband and wife they are deemd to be joint owners as far as the bailiff is concerned he has the right to make this presumtpion and again it is for the parties to prove otherise but it does NOT prevent him listing/seizing them

 

as i've said alot of this is down to bailiff and client using their common sense and clearly if tempers are flaring you are not going to facilitate reasonableness

 

as i've said before this is advice from the "other side" (ex policeman as well as bailiff) is intended to try to lead illuminati to a balanced view.

 

it just seemed to me that hazza's posts were largely inflamatory rather than helpful.

 

you might like to know that the reason i am not now operating as a bailiff is precisely because i was only prepared to act within the law (which at that time was being flouted by companies) and the vast majority of my clients liked working with me and i have had many cuppas with them as i called to collect their payments bailiff who was not aggresive towards them and tried to help them

 

having said that i am not a soft touch and wont pays - people who clearly were using the system and taking the **** got short shrift from me

[JonCris]

well i know you are narked - but seldom have i seen so much misinformation and old wives tales on one thread before

 

its like watching a lynching mob

 

where to start?

 

The warrant was for a parking fine - the bailiff does NOT have to be certified to act on this warrant - he only needs to be in possesion of a copy of the warrant and his company id card

 

a policeman does not have to know the bailiff laws although it helps - his sole reason for attendence is to prevent a breach of the peace- more often but not always because the debtor is threatening the bailiff

 

introducing the dog as you put it could be construed in fact as using a dangerous weapon

 

the statement that the bailiff "ran off" with you card to his van might be true or more likely embelishment - however there is no law to say that if you gave it to him he could not go to his van to process it without you present- its up to you to insist on accompanying him with the card

 

it is not your perogative to claim for damage to someone elses property

 

the registered keeper is responsible for fines and the bailiff is fully entitled to seize the car if you are the registered keeper- its tough but the owner cannot prevent this (hire companies being excepted)

 

to claim that a vehicle is a work vehicle it would have clearly to be fitted out for work such as a plumber electrician taxi etc

 

i KNOW that you are upset but i really do feel you have gone off at half cock and some of the posters are acting like a baying crowd at a dog fight in trying to spur you on

 

sorry if my post goes against the grain of the other posters- just trying to stop you making a complete tit of yourself

 

 

Rollocks!

 

There is no longer any such thing as a 'parking fine' therefore a warrant cannot be issued - Parking enforcement is now a civil matter

 

Anyone enforcing an 'order' of the court must be a registered bailiff otherwise they have no standing in law & can be ordered from the property as tresspassers

 

The police are there to ensure there is no breach of the peace. However what they are not there for is to assist the bailiff or in this case ordinary debt collector in enforcing the order & to do so may result in disciplinary action against the officers in question & the force being sued for damages - Also according to their own guidance they should ensure the bailliff is licenced & the order genuine before allowing him to proceed

 

Only the driver at the time is guilty of the perking 'offence' NOT the owner if different - The ONLY time an owner can be held liable for anothers actions is in the case of speeding if they refuse to give the name of the driver who commited the offence then they themselves commit an offence

 

I assume your a debt collector which explians you misunderstanding of the law

[diddydicky]

your assumtpion is as wide of the mark as your knowledge im afraid

[letsmakeamark]

well my reading of his posts was that the bailiff called the police because hazza got the dog out to introduce it to them ( which i am fairly confident in beleiving that what he meant was to threaten them with!

 

secondly not all debts require certification and although certain client s insist in it this is still the case

 

third the bailiff may levy on ANY goods in the property which he beleives to be owned or jointly owned by the debtor and it is for the OWNER (not the person named on the warrant) to prove otherwise,

 

clearly if genuine shop receipts can be provided on the spot the more reasonable bailiff will discount them btu otherwise he is allowed to list and even remove them and the owner only has a limited time to prove ownership before auction

 

if he fails to act within that time (except in exceptional circumstances) he loses any future claim to the goods

 

to clarify the last point in the case of husband and wife they are deemd to be joint owners as far as the bailiff is concerned he has the right to make this presumtpion and again it is for the parties to prove otherise but it does NOT prevent him listing/seizing them

 

as i've said alot of this is down to bailiff and client using their common sense and clearly if tempers are flaring you are not going to facilitate reasonableness

 

as i've said before this is advice from the "other side" (ex policeman as well as bailiff) is intended to try to lead illuminati to a balanced view.

 

it just seemed to me that hazza's posts were largely inflamatory rather than helpful.

 

you might like to know that the reason i am not now operating as a bailiff is precisely because i was only prepared to act within the law (which at that time was being flouted by companies) and the vast majority of my clients liked working with me and i have had many cuppas with them as i called to collect their payments bailiff who was not aggresive towards them and tried to help them

 

having said that i am not a soft touch and wont pays - people who clearly were using the system and taking the **** got short shrift from me

 

 

Are you blfuk ?

[JonCris]

Whoever they are they'er a liar certainly when it comes to the law so don't be misled

[tomtubby]

well i know you are narked - but seldom have i seen so much misinformation and old wives tales on one thread before

 

its like watching a lynching mob

 

where to start?

 

The warrant was for a parking fine - the bailiff does NOT have to be certified to act on this warrant - he only needs to be in possesion of a copy of the warrant and his company id card

 

 

DD...It is always good to have somebody within the industry to provide their side of the argument. In particular because bailiff law is incredibly complex.

 

As many people on CAG know, we have a commercial website providing bailiff advice to the public and although I would be the first person to confirm that there is a lot I do not know, but ONE THING I do know is that a bailiff enforcing a Warrant of Execution authorised by the Traffic Enforcement Centre for an unpaid parking ticket MUST BY LAW be a Certificated Bailiff. The relevant ruling can be found under section 78(7) of the Road Traffic Act 1991 which states the following:

 

Any person who is not a certificated bailiff but who purports to levy a distress as such a bailiff, and any person authorising him to levy it, shall be deemed to have committed a trespass

 

Finally, I am very concerned also at your next post where you have said that you have dealt with thousands of warrants. If this is so, you will know that the Warrants clearly state upon them that they can only be enforced by a certificated bailiff.

 

I would not wish to ask you whether these warrants have ever been enforced by uncertificated bailiffs because I suspect from your post that I know the answer !!!

[hazza]

well my reading of his posts was that the bailiff called the police because hazza got the dog out to introduce it to them ( which i am fairly confident in beleiving that what he meant was to threaten them with!

 

diddydick,

 

please read again, slowly - especially the post heading - "Newlyn impersonating a bailiff" - a bailiff did not call the police - someone impersonating a bailiff called the police. The certificated bailiff has admitted he was having a haircut during levy and the time police were called.

 

I understood this as trespass, and so I brought out my lovable dog, the bailiff impersonator bottled it and stepped back off my drive onto the pavement. I understand some people prefer to show shotguns - not me. The bailiff impersonator also lied saying it was a pitbull and i had set it on him. Why lie?

 

At the end of the day bailiffs make money from confusion - something it appears you have tried to do to this post - could you possibly be the bailiff in the barbers with 20 years experience?

 

It;s also common practice for police to keep good relationships with bailiffs as often if the lose their job with the police, they can be assured of a job with a bailiff.

 

DD, Can I kindly ask why you left the police to become a bailiff? (You mentioned you were attacked - was it as a policeman or bailiff?)

 

Thank you CAG'ers for clarifying this

[tomtubby]

well i know you are narked - but seldom have i seen so much misinformation and old wives tales on one thread before

 

its like watching a lynching mob

 

where to start?

 

The warrant was for a parking fine - the bailiff does NOT have to be certified to act on this warrant - he only needs to be in possesion of a copy of the warrant and his company id card

 

 

 

 

DD...It is always good to have somebody within the industry to provide their side of the argument. In particular because bailiff law is incredibly complex.

 

As many people on CAG know, we have a commercial website providing bailiff advice to the public and although I would be the first person to confirm that there is a lot I do not know, but ONE THING I do know is that a bailiff enforcing a Warrant of Execution authorised by the Traffic Enforcement Centre for an unpaid parking ticket MUST BY LAW be a Certificated Bailiff. The relevant ruling can be found under section 78(7) of the Road Traffic Act 1991 which states the following:

 

Any person who is not a certificated bailiff but who purports to levy a distress as such a bailiff, and any person authorising him to levy it, shall be deemed to have committed a trespass

 

Finally, I am very concerned also at your next post where you have said that you have dealt with thousands of warrants. If this is so, you will know that the Warrants clearly state upon them that they can only be enforced by a certificated bailiff. In fact the precise wording is as follows:

 

"This Warrant can only be enforced by a Bailiff carrying a certificate issued by a Judge under the Distress for Rent Rules 1988"

 

I would not wish to ask you whether these warrants have ever been enforced by uncertificated bailiffs because I suspect from your post that I know the answer !!!

[diddydicky]

hazza i was NEVER (in 10 years) assaulted as a policeman, and was only ever assaulted once (from behind by a totally un connected party) as a bailiff.

 

that might give you an indication as to the way i treat(ed) people!!

[hazza]

sorry i have no idea what you are on about, nor do i care how you treat people.... but from my pov - you treat 'em badly, with ignorance, inaccuracy and confusion, you have made many errors in your statements, often misinterpreting what has been said clearly.... please be constructive or choose not say nothing!!!!

 

This is as I feel you have tried to insult me on several occasions, on my own blinkin post!

 

Treat people with respect mate!

[diddydicky]

thanks ill take the latter course- end of

[tomtubby]

HAZZA

 

If you have a Form 4 Hearing it is so important that you make a request to the bailiff company for a copy of the Screen Shot of your account. This is a computer record of your account and includes note of telepohone conversations and records the actions of the bailiff and provided exact details of visits made to the premises and the name of the bailiff who made the visit.

 

All bailiffs have access to a Digital pen which functions like any normal pen but allows the bailiff to write or draw via Bluetooth technology direct to his office and this updates the screenshot.

 

As the bailiff company is holding your personal data, you are within your rights to request a copy of the screenshot of your account and if the bailiff company refuses this request it is advisable to remind them that you will consider making a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

[hazza]

Hi, I believe I have this - it is a list of events and status changes - it was sent to the court as an exhibit h

[hazza]

your " joke" as you refer to it is in fact a criminal offence - an incitement to violence

 

DD why bother devalue yourself? If I said anything it was 'kettle' - which I understand to mean containment - absolutely nothing to do with inciting violence - if anything, it's more to do with keeping the peace see Kettling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Have a great weekend!

[JonCris]

If the attitude (& lack of knowledge) that is demonstrated on here & other like threads by 'some' posters is anything to go by & whilst I don't advocate violence against the person, is it any surprise that some debt collectors ARE attacked by their victims............. particularly when their victim knows the debt collector is lying through his/her back teeth