cap one agreement recieved. any help welcome

[Fangio of the nineties]

Recieved these today, after a previous copy of some current t&c's arrived a few weeks ago.

 

On the surface they look good and enforceable, and helpfully Ellie has included the sig box and my name and address.

 

But... where they've pasted my printed name and address and the sig box these clearly either weren't present on the original or were in a different position.

 

Because, once scanned looking at the back of the agreement you can see the ghost of the image of the front. This ties up at the bottom...."inst for ppi etc".

 

but at the top the image is entirely different. it shows the standard "application for etc..."

and "employment details etc...

 

Clearly it's a copy of an agreement... and a seemingly valid one..But it's not the one i signed... or if it is it's been edited some..

 

Also the code at the bottom is "PREAG/0505" so presumably it's a pre agreement..

 

Ellie says cap 1 will not correspond further on the matter and they do not consider the account to be in dispute..

 

What's my next move d'ya think ?

 

links below...

 

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj404/fangio/cap1agback001-1.jpg[/img]

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj404/fangio/cap1agfront001.jpg[/img]

 

Any other comments on the artwork ?

 

Ta..

 

FOTN

Edited January 20, 2009 by Fangio of the nineties
fixing links

[traceyb918]

Hi FOTN

 

Same as i've received! i've sent them another account in dispute letter you'll see a copy of it on my post Me v Capital One CC and written on it the same as they wrote on mine "I must now inform you that any further contact I receive from you on this subject will be acknowledged but I will not enter into any further correspondence." That was on 9 Jan and i've heard nothing so far.

Tracey

[toxicdebt]

How dare they!

 

To me this is a perfect example of the bankers thinking we are easy to manipulate. I wonder if the account in dispute letters had been sent from a solicitor they would have got this reply.

 

I would really like to know what the legalities of replies like these are.

 

Surely given fact that they have refused any further correspondence would go against them if it came to court???

[traceyb918]

Hi toxic

 

I should probably speak to one of my best friends about this letter she's a solicitor. It's very rude of them.

 

Traceyx

[Fangio of the nineties]

Thank you people... I feel a letter coming on..along these lines

 

that they have now had 2 attempts at complying with my reasonable an legal request for the information.

the first was woefully short of what they are required to produce.

and the second, clearly put them to some trouble to put together a document that gave the impression that they did in fact have an enforceable agreement..but again clearly not sufficient to fulfill their obligations.. falling short in 2 respects.. in that neither was it "true" nor was it a "copy"...

what could possibly be the reason for this subtefuge ?

a/. They don't have an agreement but want to give the impression that they do ?

b/. In an effort to save paper they've condensed another document onto a single sheet ?

c/. They are being deliberately awkward and hiding behind the latitude they have under regulation 3

d/. They do have a copy - but it is archived elsewhere and not readily available, and they've worked hard to comply with my request from the information they have to hand..

 

Which do we think is the most likley answer ?

 

In any event, I do not believe they have dealt with this in a straightforward and honest manner. If they have a good agreement - then why not just copy it and send it.?

If they can get one from an archive, then why not say that ?...I'm in no rush..

 

FOTN

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello FOTN!

 

I think there is something fishy with those two copies.

 

As you say, if you look at the Page of just Terms, the Bleed-Through from the other side does not match the other Copy. Those Terms are clearly from some other Document.

 

Have a read of this (see below). It was kindly Posted onto CAG by Paulwlton, and covers a letter sent from the Chief Executive of the OFT to an MP in answer to concerns raised about the nature of CCA responses from banks. In effect, it is the OFT's opinion of what a bank should send:

 

Letters from DTI /Oft Regarding CCA1974 Issues – Post #49

 

Then compare that with the dubious copies you have been sent.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Fangio of the nineties]

Thanks

BRW..

From what i can understand this gives me scope to dispute the validity of their response on the grounds that there are omissions (as evidenced by the bleed thu)...

I'm pretty certain that thye sig page they have supplied has been condensed from other docs too.. but i can't see clear evidence of that on what they've sent..

I can't ever remember signing a doc looking like that and it's layout seems to stray from the normal too.. that and the fact they've got 2 bar-codes on it leads me to suspect it's hookey..but i can't be sure..

i think my only way forward is to continue the dispute till i have a proper copy of all of the agreement..

do you know any one who has sililar paperwork of this vintage (2005) ? I'd like to see how they've got on..

 

thanks again..your reply will also be of help to Toxic and the others taking an interest in this thread...

 

FOTN

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello FOTN!

 

do you know any one who has sililar paperwork of this vintage (2005) ?

 

I can't say I remember seeing one like that, but I have not seen all the CrapOne CCA on CAG by a long chalk!

 

I regret it's a case of trawling through as many Posts as you can find. Remember to Search in the Debt Collection and Legal Forums, as not all CrapOne Threads are in the CrapOne Forum!

 

If I spot one like it, I'll let you know. If anyone else reading this can do the same, more eyes will then help you find one if it's here!

 

That's what CAG is all about!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[traceyb918]

Well i've just received another bugger off letter!

[sunflower99]

Hi Fangio of the nineties!

Yes your Crap one alleged agreement is diffferent!I find it very difficult to read!Has it got the prescribed terms ie Number of repayments,amount of repayments .frequency of repayments date of repayments interest rate etc etc?to make it clear how a debter discharges his obligations of agreement?As you say Crap One are the masters of copy and paste so as you say probably right that is a fudged up copy! Though yours is a couple of years more recent than mine so dont know if they made more of an effort to do more enforceable CCAs after 2004.?

[ellen12]

Hi Fangio

 

Just to say I received the same so-called agreement as you last month. I've been wondering if it was a cut and paste job too. I have the same information and it shows at the bottom right PREAG/0505.

 

I sent a reply saying it was not a proper agreement and they insisted it was. they have ended communications with me so I sent similar letter back! I am now waiting for the next stage. By the way the date taken out on mine is Oct. '05 just after yours.

[traceyb918]

Hi Ellen,

 

I'm waiting along with you!

 

Tracey

[ellen12]

Hi Tracey

 

I have a feeling by the 'no further communication' letter that it will be passed on to their in-house debt collectors. I should also add that I recently got a letter from power2contact threatening doorstep callers.

 

Told them they had no right to call and I would report them to T. standards and OFT. not heard anything back form them!

[traceyb918]

Hi Ellen

 

Back in 3/12/08 Crapone sent me a letter stating that that would be passing my account on I sent them a letter saying I owed them no money(unenforceable agreement), 2 days later they sent me a default then they sent me a copy of my application. It's just going round and circles with them. I'm not quite sure what to do next. x

[ellen12]

Hi Tracey

 

Not had the application form yet. may be it's on the way? lol

 

we have to wait and see what is going to happen. keep in touch if you here anything, will let you know if i receive anything too. x.

[pelham9]

Fangio

 

Thanks for your PM.

 

The first thing is that I cannot read the document you have posted even with a manifying glass. The copy they must send you must be readily readable if it is to comply with the CCA. If it isn't you can reject it on that basis.

 

If you can read it and I cant it may be that the technique you are using with photbucket is at fault. The photobucket images need to come out 'actual size' -maybe you have reduced the size to get it all in? Better to have 4 readable images so maybe you need to split them in two.

 

The form of this 'agreement.' is very like other ones I have seen and when I can get at the figures I will probably find ammunition for you.

 

You do not appear to have had the card long so maybe you have the very first statement you received? Does it say what annual or monthly rate they have used.? Can you calculate the a monthly interest rate from the figures in the early statements? This could be very helpful.

[pelham9]

Have you lost interest?

 

You mention Sunflowers thread. in your PM. Cap1 one have wuthrawn all action against her for 'commercial' reasons so there is every liklihood they can be forced to give up with you as well.

[babydoll0141917]

Hi

 

my OH has the exact agreement has yours ...down to every detail..i did post on cag and was told it was enforcable ,,,Maybe its not the date was aug 2005

[lisaf]

Hi All,

 

myself and my Mum both rec'd the exact same as yours FOTN last week. They were both taken out 2005 also.

Any thoughts on what we should do now?

Lisa x

[babydoll0141917]

Subbing

 

thoughts would be good ..ive offered to pay lowells 5.00 per mth as was told enforcable..ill hold back for now and await some more feed back

[Fangio of the nineties]

Sorry all, been distracted with the task of trying to earn a living... in the meantime i've had further correspondence from Ellie... but no change in their position and a default notice ... so it looks like they are pressing on..

 

not kept any old statements so can't compare interest rates etc..I'll try and scan better images for scrutiny...

 

FOTN

[Fangio of the nineties]

Those with similar agreements.. can you post them up here ? lets put our heads together and pull them apart...

 

FOTN

[Fangio of the nineties]

trying it this way.. seeing if this is a better image..

 

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj404/fangio/cap1agFE.jpg

[babydoll0141917]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/mumsdoc1.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/mumsdoc2.jpg

 

and here are my OHs

[pelham9]

Still cant read them. I think you must be scalimg them down to get them on one page. Are the images actual size?

 

If you use Acrobat free download you can put them into a PDF file and post that. PDF files are scaleable and provied there is the definition in the scan can be magnified on any computer.