i want order of sale on CCJ/CO against rouge builder - how? **SETTLED**

[mairyhinge]

Hi there.

 

I have secured a CCJ against a builder with a charging order against his home. 

 

I am pursuing an order for sale and must provide details of the equity he holds in the property. Without his credit file, that is going to be difficult.

 

Do I have a right to access his private financial details in these circumstaces, or must I engage a legal professional to conduct this work?

Edited April 17, 2023 by mairyhinge

[dx100uk]

a charging order is p'haps not the way the go.

esp if he jointly owns the home it will be a useless restriction k.

 

why cant you send in bailiffs or an attachment to earning order etc etc

that way you get money

 

dx

 

[mairyhinge]

Hi dx100uk

 

He has no demonstrable earnings, and certainly no relationship with HMRC. 

Bailiffs will find nothing of value.

 

The home is the viable enforcement option, and the facts that

1) this is a trade debt (not a family finance hiccup) and

2) he has made no effort to pay the ccj , will encourage the judge to order the sale.

 

Is there anyway of getting hold of his credit file? 

 

[honeybee13]

Do you know if h's the sole owner of the house? The Land Registry site lets you check that for about £3.

 

HB

 

 

[mairyhinge]

He owns the home with his wife.  There have been cases of orders for sale being made even with joint ownership,  in circumstances where the judgment debtor makes no attempt to pay the debt.

[dx100uk]

sorry wont happen useless to you totally..

 

you will never get an order of sale on a restriction k.

even if its a 'trade' debt

 

look for other methods of enforcement.

 

bailiffs?

how much is the judgement for?

 

is the business registered at his home address?

 

[mairyhinge]

Thanks dx100uk.

 

Whether or not an order for sale is made is not the point, it's the process of creating ructions between man and wife that will see an installment plan agreed in court and adhered to, but i'm sure that you know that.

 

The process is there to put the fear of God into tough guy judgment debtors, nothing more.

 

I'm probably going to go with the N316 option before posting the order for sale application, perhaps I can find out not just about income and expenditure of the defendant,  but also details of his mortgage account and the equity therein.

 

Thanks for answering everything but my question dx100uk 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by mairyhinge

[dx100uk]

of course you cannot get his credit file ... against gdpr rules sadly .

 

i doubt you are his first ccj or customer dispute. 

and i dont think creating issues between man and wife to poss get an instalment agreement is going to work.

 

there are 10'000 of these traders in both this industry and the car sales one whereby someone gets a ccj and can never enforce it. none sadly go anywhere and none ever get paid. now if he was a sole owner of the property and you named him as the claimant and not his business name, you might stand a chance.

 

sorry but i dont think you are ever going to get anywhere , all you are doing is throwing more money and effort and wasted court time on an impossible situation write it off move on..dx

 

dx

 

 

 

[mairyhinge]

Yes, he was named as defendant. He is self employed and the payments I made went to his personal bank account, there is no disputing the link between judgment and his personal assets. As for your comments about enforcement, yes it's well known that bailiffs turning up to crappy homes with nothing worth more than a hundred quid, or applying to attach to invisible earnings is a complete waste of time!

 

At least my method will rope his missus in at the earliest stage because she is notified of the charging order and the ensuing application for order for sale. That is when jack the lad suddenly faces up to his responsibilities and sticks to an installment plan. I may not be his first ccj, but i know i am the first to take out a charging order because the only charge on the property is from his lender. you are quick to poo-poo a perfectly reasonable plan.

Edited April 17, 2023 by mairyhinge

[dx100uk]

wont ever happen, sorry.

you cant turn a restriction k into an order of sale.

not even one the 15 very biggest debt collection agencies in the uk with £1bn's of consumer debt against Billions of people has ever managed it since the 1980's

 

dx

 

 

[mairyhinge]

Thanks dx100uk, just wondering whether you read my last post. I was suggesting that just the threat of an order for sale at hearing should be enough to have an errant debtor stick to an installment plan.

[dx100uk]

Nope. If they know the game, they will know a restriction k on his equity can never be turned in to an order of sale.

 

 And they already have a 1st charge, the mortgage and the mortgage company will object to the sale anyway even if it was a full charging order, which it is not.

 

There are other ways to enforce a judgement (the ccj) money orders and things like that i think. Bar a co on a jointly owned property, which is merely a useless restriction k. Or bailiffs.

 

Look it up

 

 

[mairyhinge]

dx, the guy is potless and only has the property as an asset. I will get the money one day when the property is sold, and as I said, hope that the judge squeezes him hard for installments in order to turn down my application for an order for sale.

 

his home is a dive with a couple of tellies, he has no savings, no regular income, so why are you keen on sending consumers through useless hoops that clearly will not work? 

 

the more i see of the county court system, it is a fee grabbing monopoly sponsored by law firms and CAG

Edited April 17, 2023 by mairyhinge

[dx100uk]

You wont get the money when the property is sold. End of...thats the law.

 

a restriction k , simply means you are informed the property has been sold by the buyers solicitor. After its done and dusted, read the deed entry carefully.

 

there is nothing you can do to stop the sale, nor would you be informed of the sale.

 

You will not get an order of sale, the judge has no power to force payment either.  Waste of time.......

 

Dx 

[mairyhinge]

a judgment creditor should seek a court order for a non-standard restriction to be entered against title to the property at the second hearing when the charging order is made final.

 

The non-standard notice should require 14 days’ advance notice of any proposed disposition to be given to the judgment creditor. This would enable the judgment creditor sufficient time to obtain an undertaking that their debt will be paid upon completion of the sale,

 

i.e. before the proceeds are paid over to the seller and their restriction (and security) is removed. 

[dx100uk]

Do you know the exact wording on his deeds that refers to your debt.

 

Dx

[mairyhinge]

DX, I see my last post made your ears prick up !

 

You are quite right, a standard restriction K can be entirely ignored at property sale providing that the conveyancing team are instructed accordingly. However,  with a variation in wording at the second hearing, the charging order is a powerful tool in protecting a creditor's money. 

 

I am a CAG forumite and have come here looking for help. Will you help me find justice by recommending the wording I put before a judge at the application hearing, or do you want "thousands of builders and car salesman to carry on getting away with it"?

[Andyorch]

Have you not considered a Third Party Debt Order ?

[mairyhinge]

Yes. He is not the sort of chap that would leave cash in the bank .

[dx100uk]

There is no wording.

 

An 'undertaking' is not be enforceable in law, 

 

He can just ignore it 

 

Dx

[mairyhinge]

So there exists a superman, no cash in the bank, no earnings, a trashy home with nothing of value and holding joint proprietorship of that home with his wife,  operating beyond the law because the courts are powerless to enforce payment by any means?  

 

....my understanding is slightly different, If the debtor's solicitor refuses to pay the creditor upon the sale, then the creditor could apply to court for an injunction to prevent the sale completing without payment of the sums owed under the charging order from the proceeds.

[dx100uk]

Your 1st comment is 100% correct . 10'000's of car traders and builders have achieved that outcome, again and again . Never paying a penny.

 

Injunction?? Won't ever happen, any wording is not a judgement of something that must happen. It would only as you say be  an undertaking.

 

Where did you get that text from please and can we have the exact wording that exists now on their deeds 

 

Dx

 

[mairyhinge]

DX, I'm afraid this has become a fishing expedition by the both of us and therefore will lead nowhere. 

 

The point that I would like to make is that you know very well that the wording applied to the deeds when making a charging order on a debtor's home can change the security of the debt from 0% to 100%. Your 'me no speakadee English' strategy is not working, and I'm going to assume hereonin that you have a vested interest in getting these builders and car salesmen off the hook rather than delivering consumers their druthers. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by mairyhinge

[honeybee13]

I don't think that's a very fair assessment of this forum or d. Why would we have a vested interest in helping builders and car salesmen? The whole point of CAG is to give impartial advice - for which we don't charge.

 

And we're carrying a featured article about a dodgy car dealer who was reported in the Daily Mail after we advised some of their disgruntled customers.

 

 

It's obvious you don't agree with dx's advice but it doesn't mean he's wrong.

[mairyhinge]

Honeybee,

county courts are fast becoming a cul-de-sac for plebs to throw away money, the great and the good seeking justice elsewhere.

 

Without justice, disorder will prevail.

 

Has it never concerned you that whilst district judges hand down judgment, they have no power to enforce judgment upon a savvy debtor?

 

I would even go as far as to say that the judicial system is today knowingly misleading the masses, taking fees for applications for a charging order that cannot result in a legal charge on the property.