Abbey Court Hearings - Important info

[determindator]

Hi again,

 

PSM v Abbey is another thread which is good to read and also look at thread OFT Test Case Poc's (put into search) and look at Bill65 posts from number 8.

It's the foundations of law very interesting.

[abroadgirl]

update

Bank Charges Court Date Announced: 14 Jan. Plus clarity over credit card reclaiming?

hugs

abg

[jmc5571]

Re Magnum:

 

Hi This is probably too long ago now, but are you not best to accept the 65% settlement as part payment and continue to seek the rest as you go. Abbey seem reluctant to pay anything at the moment. At least then you've got something so far. Not sure if this is possible or advisable, but just a thought

[cassoli]

Re Magnum:

 

Hi This is probably too long ago now, but are you not best to accept the 65% settlement as part payment and continue to seek the rest as you go. Abbey seem reluctant to pay anything at the moment. At least then you've got something so far. Not sure if this is possible or advisable, but just a thought

 

Hi,

Does anyone know if the 65% offer from Abbey is an open offer. Are hey still paying out

Can you accept he offer even if you have refused in the past. I'm thinking 65% now may be better than waiting for the outcome of the test case.

 

Cheers Cassoli

[GaryH]

If the offer stated a time limit then it stays open until the time is up - unless they've told you they are withdrawing it sooner. If you've already expressly refused the offer then strictly speaking its no longer open, although they may still allow you to accept if its within the time.

[macushlamoon]

Hi Gary

 

I'm due in court on the 12 October, to ask that the stay imposed be lifted due to financial hardship, the court is in reciept of everything to this point, and are now asking for 'skeletal info' as to our case against the stay.

 

I am doing this on behalf of my father-in-law, a pensioner, who in May had a heart attack. I have armed myself with all his financial info, ie only has pension going into this account, majority of which gets swollowed by bank charges.

Do i have to include his wife's pension in with his, as in household income or can i argue his financial affairs seperately, the account in dispute is solely in his name.

[GaryH]

No you don't have to include his wifes financial information.

 

Have you seen this -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/114505-bundle-stay-hearing.html

 

and this -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/115023-application-removal-stay-grounds.html

[macushlamoon]

Gary

 

thanx for your prompt reply, I am getting together bundle for stay hearing as we speak

And have downloaded application for removal of stay on grounds of hardship

 

Thanks for your help

[determindator]

Hello Gary,

 

If a claimant accepts the 65% offered can you keep the claim you have already going, active to claim the interest? Abbey say the 65% is in full and final settlement but surely that cannot affect your statutory rights?

 

Thanks again.

[GaryH]

If a claimant accepts the 65% offered can you keep the claim you have already going, active to claim the interest?

No.

 

They've made you an offer of x amount in return for you discontinuing your action. You are completely free to either refuse or accept the offer or make a counter-offer, that is your perogotive, but if you do accept you are entering into a binding contract - so as long as they perform their obligation (to pay £x) you then must perform yours (to drop the action). Failiure to do so is a breach on your part which they would be entitled to pursue you for. In practise I think all they would do is show the judge that you accepted the offer and your claim would certainly be thrown out.

 

Even aside from that, you have no statutory right to the return of the charges nor to interest on top. You are alleging the charges are unlawful (which they clearly are) but strictly speaking unfortunately they are lawful until a court rules them otherwise. Interest is not a statutory right either - its at the discretion of the court.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[determindator]

Thank you for your reply. It gives food for thought to anyone in the 65% position, and something to chew on.

[ohoh4312]

Hi GaryH

 

When you get a moment, could you please have a look at my court order for a stay:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1161455.html

 

I apologise for the expletives(!) in the post, but I was a bit miffed!

 

My main questions are:

 

Can I apply for a time limit to be put on the stay, as per other orders I have seen, or is this pointless insofar as the stay will just be extended until a final judgement is given?

 

And what does point 5 of the order mean? Is it just a typo, ie not meant to be there, or does it hold a more sinister meaning? Or maybe it means I can apply for costs because they dragged me to court on the 21st having already written the directions the day before!!!

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Jo xx

[determindator]

Hello Gary when you are on thread,

 

I send this message on here instead of a pvte msg so others can see if it can help them. I requested my stay and faxed over 12th Sept. Ive made enquiries over the last 10 days to get an update. I rang this morn and as the clerks have mentioned in previous phone calls, there should have been a response by now, but it all depends on how quickly the Judge goes through his file. I have assertained my request is in his pile of 'to do'. Do you know if there is a time limit on how long the Judge can take before giving me an answer? If the stay is lifted can Abbey keep requesting stays so we are in a vicious cycle. Can that cycle be broken by a particular order from a Judge?

 

Many thanks

 

Determind

[determindator]

Just a thought, if the charges are found to be unlawful, if anyone has accepted any offers of goodwill hopefully you can pursue another case for the interest which has been denied to you because they took your money unlawfully. Not pursued as in a Judge awarding interest, but that you have been out of pocket because of the Bank's actions.

[GaryH]

I requested my stay and faxed over 12th Sept.

What exactly have you requested?

Do you know if there is a time limit on how long the Judge can take before giving me an answer?

No. Courts run at their own speed I'm afraid - which in some instances can be infuriatingly slow!

If the stay is lifted can an Abbey keep requesting stays so we are in a vicious cycle.

If the stay is lifted at a hearing with both parties present then they cannot then simply apply again for the stay to be re-instated, they would have to appeal to a higher judge. This would be unlikely IMO.

Just a thought, if the charges are found to be unlawful, if anyone has accepted any offers of goodwill hopefully you can pursue another case for the interest which has been denied to you because they took your money unlawfully. Not pursued as in a Judge awarding interest, but that you have been out of pocket because of the Bank's actions.

As in the 8% County Courts Act interest? No. See the answer above - once you accept an offer you are accepting it as full and final settlement.

 

There may be grounds for a seperate restitutionary claim for the 'time value' of the money - I.e the benefit of the funds gained by the bank whilst in its wrongful possesion - which would be measured in compound interest. However even in this instance you may still be barred by the fact you have already accepted a F&F settlement, I'm not entirely sure.

[determindator]

Many thanks Gary. In reply to your question as to the type of stay request sent, I refer to your reply in 'Abbey Court Hearings Important info' post 39 11/9. You linked me to 'Application for removal of a stay' updated to account for the OFT Test case. It would be recd by the Court as a letter request and not attached to any N form and no fee. I decided I was not handing over any more hard earned cash to the system.

 

Determind

[determindator]

Hi Gary when you are on thread,

 

I have spoken to Court this morn and very helpful clerk will look in Judges tray to see where I am and call me. I mentioned CPR 18 was not answered by Abbey as well. When I sent in my request for a stay I also attached evidence of the charges causing financial problems so that may assist me.

 

D

[determindator]

It seems another Judge is in the chamber the clerk needs to get into. She cannot get to the in tray until Monday and will call me when she does.

 

Determind

[dburrell55]

Hi Garry,

I have spent the afternoon preparing an order to remove the stay on my case, but after talking to the Cambridge court I get the impression that it is very unlikely to happen especially as I dont have any particular hardship issues (apart from the SHABBY HAVING OVER £4,000 OF MINE FROM CHARGES). The initial cost has gone up to £40, has there been any succsesses or is it going to be more money into the black hole which is opening up?????

 

Thanks for your time

Darren

[determindator]

Hi Guys,

 

We are in the process of organising a meet the thread is Xmas meet in London 24th November

 

hope to hear from you

 

D

[amsckt99]

Hi all

 

On 9th Oct this year I attended Bury county court in relation to my application to remove the stay impsoed by the courts.

 

THE DISTRICT JUDGE KINDLY REMOVED THE STAY ON THIS OCCASION AND SET A HEARING DATE for 7th January 2007.

 

Today I have recieved a copy of an appl;ication by Abbey to have the removal of the stay overturned which they have sent to the court with a solicitors witness statement referring to the OFT case.

 

The court to date have not contacted me as yet, only abbey who sent me the paperwork.

 

ANY ADVICE GLADLY WELCOMED

[GaryH]

Was the application for leave to appeal? Did Abbey turn up at the first hearing?

 

Can I see the witness statement please? either post it up here or otherwise send to gary.h@consumeractiongroup.co.uk

[amsckt99]

Hi Gary

 

I have sent you via email the documents sent to me via Abbey

 

Thanks for your support:)

[amsckt99]

Hi Gary

 

Abbey did not turn up at the removal of stay application hearing. The district judge appeares non to pleased that they did not even submit any objections.

 

I have tried to negotiate with Abbey as per the DJ advice, but instead they sent me info about them re-applying to have the stay put back

[amsckt99]

I have now recieved the info from the court regarding the application from Abbey to have the court re-apply the stay that was removed by the DJ. The hearing date for the application is now 3rd Jan and the hearing for the case itself is the 8th Jan

 

PLEASE CAN ANYONE ADVISE?:o