SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go? ** WON 21st May**

[Simon7685]

I can't wait! (Honestly!)

 

Hi Raymond

 

I actualy woke up in the middle of the night thinking about 'bloody sky' and them having MY money for all those invoices I never got!

 

I emialed them again last night and copied it to 'skydigital@bskyb.com' as well. Advising them that I was going to commence legal procedures against them and asking them for their proforma for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), I can't do anyhting else until I know how much money they have stolen from me, unless you know differently, if so please advise me. It is copied underneath. I was tired and p'd off when I wrote it so it probably could have been put together in a better way using hindsight but there we go.

 

Please comment and call me a 'Dumbo' if want:shock:

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

I would like to thank you for addressing my issues and compaints, however you have not done so. The latest reply to my issues and complaints was in fact wholly unacceptable, you failed to address any aspect of my continued complaints, in fact the manner of your automated standard reply would suggest that my document was not even read as said this is WHOLLY UNACCEPTABLE.

 

DUE TO YOUR CONTINUED REFUSAL TO JUSTIFY YOUR COSTS AS PER THE 'UTCC REGULATIONS OF 1999', OR DEAL WITH MY COMPLAINTS I FEEL IHAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LOOK AT COMMENCING LEGAL ACTION AGAINST SSSL. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE YOUR OWN PROFORMA REGARDING THE SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST AND FORMALLY REQUEST A COPY TO BE EITHER E-MAILED OR POSTED TO ME WITHOUT DELAY. FAILURE TO SUPPLY THIS WILL NOT DETRACT ME FROM CONTINUING ACTION.

 

Thankyou

 

 

XXXXXXX

----- Original Message -----

 

From:

MYSKY

 

To:

 

Sent:

Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:06 PM

 

Subject:

SKY

 

 

 

Customer Relations Enquiry Code : FDUE1906

 

 

Dear Mr XXXXXX

 

 

Customer Account Number : XXXXXXXXX

 

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

I was concerned to learn of your dissatisfaction with our invoice administration fee and welcome this opportunity to respond.

 

 

As a leading entertainment provider in the UK and ROI, Sky handles payments for over 8 million subscribing customers. Receiving manual payments and producing paper statements involves additional time, resource, material and cost.

 

 

To ensure that we are able to offer you the ability to pay by invoice for our services, we feel it's necessary and fair for Sky to charge for this service. Should you wish to avoid this monthly fee, we suggest paying by Direct Debit or credit card as a more convenient method of payment for both you and Sky. It is a safe and easy way to pay your Sky bill, saving you time, hassle and cost and at the same time, putting you in control of your finances. You are able to change your payment method at any time by calling 08702 404040 (or 0818 719 819 if calling from ROI) and we suggest that you have your account details ready.

 

 

May I also refer you back to the Terms and Conditions of your Sky contract in which it states that our preferred method of payment is by Direct Debit Mandate or continuous credit card payment.

 

 

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us about your feelings on this matter. Please be assured we have taken your comments seriously, and I trust I've clarified our position.

 

If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me at the email address above.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Fiona Duncan

 

Customer Relations Department

 

 

We hope that the above reply has answered all of your queries; however, we would like some more feedback from you regarding the service we provide. We are continually trying to improve our services and to this end, we regularly ask our customers for feedback. The attached link will take you to our online questionnaire that should only take a few minutes to complete. Any information you provide will be treated confidentially and used purely to allow us to improve the service we provide to our customers. Thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback.

http://www.fieldintelligence.co.uk/0054

 

[buzby]

Well, at least it shows them you're angry!

 

Go for it - as the satisfaction you get with that impressive Sky cheque (complete with hologram) makes it worthwhile. The sad fact is there are no doubt many of us winning the moral victory without going to court, whilst they continue to rip-off everyone else who feel obliged to pay it.

 

I rankle at the 'our preferred payment method' line - I'M the customer, instead of being grateful I'm paying them at all, they want free reign to my bank account? No way Jose!

 

I'm not holding out much hope for the OFCOM 'review' of these charges as it seems a limited and uninterested exercise from them, but something just might happen.

[Simon7685]

Hi Raymond

 

I know exactly what you mean, we seem to be the few who are acting, compared to the far larger majority that are affected but don't seem to want to do anything about it, which I find absolutely bizzare.

 

What seems even more unbelieveable is these people are generally on the tails of the banks for their charges back but find the Sky situation acceptable! I mean you don't have to be einstein to do it and the more that do, the more chance of them changing their policies due to the people pressure.

Also if people are unsure what to do, they only have to ask in here and someone allways helps you out. I am not without intelligence but I am not an expert either. I totally admit that when I started my ongoing bank action against the Shabby Irrational I didn't have a bloody clue what to do, so I read up what I could then asked others....bingo!

 

I keep trying to keep this thread near the top in the hope people will read it, ask if needed and then do it! After all I thought we were supposed to be a nation of complainers! God it gets me mad that these companies get away with what they do, poncing around in there armarni suits, flash cars and private yachts! and all from their multi million pound profits which unclude all my £4's.....b*****ds!!!!!!!

 

Well there is my little rant for the day I feel better already, sorry about the language.

 

Simon

[Simon7685]

Hi again Raymond

 

Wonder if you know and could give me the answer on this one, from a legal point of view?

 

Our Sky account is in now wifes maiden name. I am authorised by her to act on her behalf and have it on record with sky and a password. Will everything need to be done in her name or as I am authorised including a signed authority if needed, can it be persued under my name?

 

Any idea?

Thanks

Simon

[Simon7685]

Does anybody else pay Sky other than by Direct Debit?

Does anybody else have any issues with Sky TV?

Does anybody else feel like contributing to this thread?

 

Questions, questions, questions!

 

Is there anbody there? Knock twice for yes!

Or even tell me to Bog off if you like! Just say something, anything, before I lose the plot all together!!!!!!!!

[IdaInFife]

Hi Simon,

 

The password is mearly for any phonecalls you make etc the only thing that you could not do is add a dd over the phone in your name or cancel the contract.

 

You can write and as long as you write all your wifes details name address etc and quote the password on any corress I cannot see a problem with it.

 

To tell you the truth emailing sky wont get you very far regarding an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Either phone or write for a SAR form from sky or write a letter requesting one with your £10 in it.

 

IDAx

[Simon7685]

Hi Ida

 

Thanks for that, that is what I,ve been doing but today I forwarded a mandate to them giving me authority to act. Now, sit down.............

I sent request for S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request from them and......................it didn't..............it couldn't...............could it?????????

Yes it could..........yes it did..............11.37am today............a reply to my request including an attached SAR request form.........miracles can happen.

 

Thats not all though, tune in for more revelations!!!!!

 

Simon..

[Simon7685]

SKY - The Battle goes on

they begin to show cracks? Or do they?

1. Email received 22/6/07 with apology regarding the customer service I didn’t receive and enclosing SAR request form, - returned completed with £10 on 22/6/07.

2. Call to Sky 08702404040 regarding payment of current bill. Long conversation with pleasant girl (can’t remember her name, bugger!). She set out Skys stance on the matter very well, I did so with mine, obviously a lot of her responses were standard pat statements. Bottom line was the account would be suspended on 28/6/07 because of outstanding amount even if £15 package cost is paid. Advised her that was fine I fully understood but would not be making the payment.

3. Call back to Sky spoke to Shabaz, asked for cancellation dept. He asked if before transferring if he could do anything to help me, said probably not but go ahead. He offered to get the £12 removed from my bill but I would need to agree to pay by DD or advance ongoing Credit Card Authorisation. Advised him I would not do so. He asked why, I told him. Thanked him for trying to help and he t/ferred me to cancellations.

4. Spoke to a chap called Kevin. We went through various issues surrounding the account. I said I was happy to go to court as I was 100% sure I would win as I knew others had and that Sky would probably cave in before court! He couldn’t understand that if people had been successful with other actions relating to the same matter why would Sky not change their invoicing policy? I advised him that whilst these cases were in the minority it would not be cost effective for them to do so. He asked about DD, I told him, said no and advised, of my right to pay my bill my way and not be penalised because I won’t pay how they want me to. Went on to mention UTCC Regs 1999 etc and how Sky had refused to divulge their true costs in response to my requests. He advised he could get me a complete breakdown of the £4 charge sent to me. I said respectfully that no way could he do that otherwise others would have received it and my stance would not be possible as there would be no case to answer for Sky. I do believe that he believed he could do this!

He offered to get the £4 charge removed from my bill, I asked if that was for all of them over the last 6 years. Er No, just this one. Declined the offer and advised that my action would continue. I told him at this point that I had written to customer services so many times and included in those offers, I was happy to continue to pay the package subscription until the matter of the penalty charge was resolved through the court. If the court then ruled in Sky’s favour, I would pay the £4 with pleasure and repay any outstanding charges owed. I asked him does this not seem fair to you as person and not a sky employee??? He said it did.

So he could do something about it. He offered to reduce the charges to £2 per month for two months. I actually misunderstood him here, and said whilst that was appreciated I would still be charged £2 a month. Also if he could reduce the penalty charge to £2 was this an admission that Sky make profit from the charge, he said no, he meant reduce the package price to £2, he can’t alter the ‘invoice’ charge at all. (So he can wipe out invoice charges but not reduce them, strange one, mmmm).

He advised me that his offer was to reduce the package price from £15 to £2 plus the £4 invoice charge for 2 months. So I paid a total of £6 per month. I asked why and how he would do this???? He said he would do it by suspending the account for 2 months to give me chance to move forward with my court action, if I chose to go ahead with it. How much do Sky not want to lose the custom I thought and more to the point not end up in a court room!!!

I told him this was very kind offer which I appreciated but my viewing was to be suspended on 28/6/07 for non payment. Also I needed to formally cancel Sky in order to prevent them having a legal right to continue to charge on a monthly basis. He said he could fix that as well, (Is guy really Paul Daniels?. He asked me to hold while he went to his team manager.

He came back a couple of minutes later and confirmed the following to me;

a. My viewing would continue without suspension.

b. My account would be suspended for 2 months.

c. My charge in that 2 month period would be £2 package & £4 invoice = £6.

d. I could cancel Sky at anytime in that 2 month period and it would not cost the £19 for one months notice, which it would if I cancelled today.

e. All this would be confirmed in writing to me before I had to make a payment.

and finally,

f. This would give me some time to get everything together for any court case I chose to persue.

I advised him I was happy to go along with this if it was confirmed in writing (surely not!), but my action through the courts would continue. I said I had got my teeth into it and wasn’t going to let it go, he said he definitely got that impression but this would give me time to get things in order…………………..suspicious…….mmmmmmmmm.

I have to say I don’t fully get this I think they are maybe hoping I will come round and not go ahead, or are they pulling a fast one somewhere????

I thanked him for his time, pleasant manner, helpfulness and the call ended.

 

Any and all comments will be gratefully received

 

Simon

[Simon7685]

This the Mandate for Authority that was sent followed by the SAR cover letter sent with their SAR form;

 

22 June 2007

Dear Sir / Madam

MANDATE OF AUTHORISATION FOR MR XXXX XXXX TO ACT ON MY BEHALF IN RELATION TO MY SKY ACCOUNT

ACCOUNT NUMBER; xxxxxxxxxxxx

I am the account holder; my details are as cited above. My husband, Mr xxxxx xxxxx is already authorized to act on my behalf and does so by use of the account password I provided.

Further to that, I confirm that Mr xxxx xxxx has my full authorisation to act on my behalf regarding all written, verbal, legal or other matters pertaining to my account with Sky Subscribers Services Ltd.

Yours faithfully

Mrs X XXXXX

The Group Protection Officer

British Sky Broadcasting Ltd

Legal Department

Grant Way

Isleworth

Middlesex

TW7 5QD

22 June 2007

Dear Sir / Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER; XXXXXXXXX

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

Please find enclosed the completed Subject Access Request in relation to the above account. Also a copy of my current Passport as requested and also a Mandate Authority for my husband to act entirely on my behalf.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my account history with your organization. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

Mrs xxxxx xxxxx

Once again anyone with any comments or just wants to show me any support, please post.

Simon

 

 

 

[Simon7685]

Buzby and Co, where are you????????

 

Does anybody have any comments about my case?

 

I have to be honest, I am relly beginning to think I am wasting my time continuing with this thread!

 

Simon

[buzby]

Hang on - we're doing this in our SPARE time - are we not entitled to at least get a break at the weekend? As for the thread, what else can we add - it's moving forward, SKY will not negotiate meaningfully, and the only reason why I wasn't offer the £2 deal (a vacuous promotion ploy) was because I was already cut off and was already lost to them as a customer.

 

The fact you had to get permission from your SO to access the SAR is standard - and once you get this you can use this to calculate the full amounts to sue for, plus the SAR fee. Then its off to court you go - if you're lucky.

[Simon7685]

Hang on - we're doing this in our SPARE time - are we not entitled to at least get a break at the weekend? As for the thread, what else can we add - it's moving forward, SKY will not negotiate meaningfully, and the only reason why I wasn't offer the £2 deal (a vacuous promotion ploy) was because I was already cut off and was already lost to them as a customer.

 

The fact you had to get permission from your SO to access the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is standard - and once you get this you can use this to calculate the full amounts to sue for, plus the SAR fee. Then its off to court you go - if you're lucky.

 

Hi Buzby

 

Firstly sorry if I sounded as though 'I was having a go at you', I wasn't. I am not that sort of person. Your input on this has been gratefully received and I am very thankfull to you. You seem a very knowledgeable man and I would like to hope I can learn more from you as I go through this process so please accept my sincere apologies.

 

I was just wondering where you were as I hadn't heard for a couple of days. I had hoped more people may have shown an interest in this and I suppose I was feeling a bit low as well, I have many issues and things going on in my life but that is not an excuse:(

 

Sorry once again and hope you're not offended.

Simon:sad:

[Simon7685]

If anyone is interested my thread about battling the Abbey is;

 

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey

 

It may or may not be of intrest but it was something I felt I needed to do. Hopefully people will gain an insight into me as a person and see where I am coming from.

 

Please give it a read (you might want to get a cuppa first!)

Simon

[IdaInFife]

Hi Simon,

 

regarding the phone call to te cancellation department.

 

They haven't done anything different if you were calling to cancel due to cost or programming etc.

 

Your account is not 'suspended' as such as they cannot suspend an account. All they have done is give you an offer on your current package. they aren't wiping the invoice charges as such either. All they will do is place a credit on the account to cover them!

 

This person you spoke to must 'save' a certain amount of customers from cancelling or he doesn't get his bonus

 

He ain't done anything special at all except stop you from cancelling.

 

He wouldn't be interested in the reasons only interested in his bonus!!!

 

 

Idax

[Simon7685]

Hi Simon,

 

regarding the phone call to te cancellation department.

 

They haven't done anything different if you were calling to cancel due to cost or programming etc.

 

Your account is not 'suspended' as such as they cannot suspend an account. All they have done is give you an offer on your current package. they aren't wiping the invoice charges as such either. All they will do is place a credit on the account to cover them!

 

This person you spoke to must 'save' a certain amount of customers from cancelling or he doesn't get his bonus

 

He ain't done anything special at all except stop you from cancelling.

 

He wouldn't be interested in the reasons only interested in his bonus!!!

 

 

Idax

 

Hi Ida

 

Interesting, Quietly I was wondering along these lines. Can't wait for the details to arrive in the post though - it willl be a laugh if nothing else. I am still not going to pay the £4 charge though.

 

What I actualy want to achieve is getting all my £4's back while still being a customer, then I can cancel and make the pratts grovel again.

 

I hope you didn't take offence at what I put in earlier posts, that was never my intention. Just hop Buzby accepts my apology or I have lost a good ally!

 

What are your experiences with Sky Ida, would be good to know and it's great to hear from you again

 

Simon:)

[IdaInFife]

Hi Simon,

 

No offence taken or noticed! lol

 

My experience with Sky are fantastic! They pay my bills;)

 

Idax

[Simon7685]

Now come along Ida, don't tease like that, tell me more pleeeeease. Do you have a thread?

 

Simon:confused:

[Simon7685]

Bump!

[IdaInFife]

Hi Simon,

 

Not with sky. I meant I work for sky;)

 

idax

[Simon7685]

Hi Ida

 

Even more interesting. I hope I have an ally on the inside then;) ? I have received a further email from them today I will post it tomorrow, I think they are finally beginning to take me seriously and not before time I may add.

 

They are either worried about the court action or think they will get the better of me.

 

In what capacity do you work for them Ida, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Speak soon

Simon:)

[IdaInFife]

Hi Simon.,

 

in customer services and before anyone shoots me doon! No not in India:p

 

 

Idax

[electron99]

Hi Simon, am late to this thread but have a couple of observations.

1. Have you asked Sky to set up a Standing Order instead of a Direct debit.If they refuse, or insist on a £4 charge, ask why.

2.The direct debit guarantee.We all know this is not as good as claimed.If Sky take your money earlier than agreed,you could try and go to your bank and ask for restitution under this guarantee.If they say no, you have Sky by the short and curlies since there would be no absolute advantage for the customer to use a direct debit.

My own view is that if this does go to court, your stance should be that the direct debit offers no protection to you,and thus is unfair.If you have asked for a standing order and been refused, this would show the court you have tried to resolve this issue.

Finally you could ask Sky to put in writing that if you set up a direct debit and they take the money earlier than agreed, they would agree to repay you any bank charges that you received.If they refuse ask why, again refering to the so called direct debit guarantee.

[IdaInFife]

Hiya,

re:

Finally you could ask Sky to put in writing that if you set up a direct debit and they take the money earlier than agreed, they would agree to repay you any bank charges that you received.If they refuse ask why, again refering to the so called direct debit guarantee

 

i can assure everyone that if the money is taken before your payment due date, as copy of the bank statement would be requested to show the dates etc then sky would and does refund any bank charges although there has been no problems since their new billing system was recently introduced, to my knowledge

 

 

idax

[Simon7685]

Hi Electron 99 and Ida

 

I thought standing orders were defunct and replaced by DD???

 

I like the idea about the charges but the point is, I am being forced to pay my bill Sky's preffered way (DD), unless I pay a 'administration charge' for the privelage of paying how I choose. Also the 'ac' is not reflective of the true cost to Sky (they continue to refuse to supply this). Therefore the 'ac' is a penalty charge, which is disproportionate to their costs so breaching the UTCC Regs of 1999 and other laws as I am discovering.

 

Ida, whilst refunds may be given now, they were not when my DD was in place. I rang and asked about a refund on the 2nd time it happened to basically be told to get stuffed.

 

Below is a copy of the email received yesterday from Sky although I have'nt received the postal copy to date;

 

Dear Mr

Customer Account Number:

Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that on checking the above account that on 26/06/2007 a offer for 2 Mix for 2 months at a cost of 2.00 (GBP) was accepted and this offer end on 22/08/2007. It is necessary for us to receive communication at the end of the offer period informing us as to whether you would like your viewing subscription to continue. As if we receive no such communication, full billing will applied to your digital account. I can also advise that during this call the 12.00(GBP) outstanding on the account was cleared.

I trust this meets with your approval, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us at the above email address.

Yours sincerely

Charlene Marshall

Customer Relations

The interesting point is there was no mention of the £12 (3 x £4 ac) being removed during my call last Friday. Also the offer was not accepted. The £12 being wiped out is very nice and I will deduct it from the total paid in the last six years. My acceptance was and is not going to happen until formal written communication is received and this will not prevent my continuing action. this will be communicated to Sky tomorrow.

Keep any advice and comments coming guys.

Simon:)

[Simon7685]

If Sky knew that there charge was justified and legally sustainable why would they do this???

 

Is it not more likely they know they are on dangerous ground and are terrified of going to court in they are forced to reveal their costs and ending up having to refund thousands to people...ouch!

 

Another email received today.......interesting;

 

Dear Mrs

Customer account number

Thank you for your email concerning the administration fee.

Please accept my apologies for the delay in your response.

I am sorry you have not found our first response to be helpful.

At the moment we do not have all the information required for your query.

The matter is under investigation and we will then be in a position to provide all the requested information.

In the meantime I would like to thank you for your patience.

Regards

Rona Finlayson

Cust Relations Consultant

Ext

 

The extention could be usefull, especially if you can advise me how to direct dial it Ida??????........promise I won't tell:wink:

 

It gets more interesting all the time!

 

Come on Buzby chip in and share your thoughts and advice Please!!!

What is your take on this Ida??

 

Simon:)