Provident personal Credit sent this CCA in response to my request

[hannahbtw]

Can anyone tell me if this agreement is valid?

I received this in response to a CCA request to Provident Personal Credit. I've blanked out my address and signature details, they were there on the original copy though!

I signed this agreement at home, but was never sent a second copy of any agreement in the post, or given the 5 day "cooling off" period, or any further info regarding cancellation. As far as i can see on this agreement there is very minimal T&Cs .

Would love to hear fellow CAGgers views on this document. Is it legal..i know the APR is shocking, but i dont know if its illegal in any other respect.

All views appreciated!

Han x

[hannahbtw]

Anyone have any views on the validity?

Han x

[gizmo111]

Looks valid to me

[lookinforinfo]

It is a very simple contract so there is not much that can go wrong with it.

The only thing I would question is the APR.

If you borrow £1000 for a year and the APR is 170%, then I would expect

that you would pay £700 in interest. Yet you have only[!] paid £620 over

one year and two weeks.

Is there anyone on the forum who is able to confirm the APR is correct?

Failing that, at that level of interest, even if the amount is correct,

it may render the contract as an extortionate credit bargain. If that

is the case, a Judge may reduce the level of interest or cancel the

contract altogether.

[StuffedbyNatwest]

APR of 170% would almost certainly be extortinate but the figure of £620 is about right - the APR relates to the reducing sum borrowed as payments are made over the year just like a mortgage. The first payment is practically all interest whilst the last is practically all capital. Hope that make sense.

Would suggest contacting your local County Court to get their advice on how to dispute the interest rate.

[Saffronflowers]

I cant comment on the validity of the agreement but I do know that Provident charge unbeleivably high amounts of interest - their excuse is that they are lending to uncredityworthy people, this is a slightly lower one than some I have heard about.

 

SFx

[rory32]

I believe SF is refering to the rule of 78 which would be applicable to this loan - although it was abolished as of 31st May 2005.

[hannahbtw]

Thanks for all of your comments!

This agreement was actually sent to me by C.K Edrupt and Co.Solicitors who are acting on behalf of Provident. I believe they are an "in-house" firm, but if someone can substantiate that it would be most welcome.

As you can see from the agreement, this debt goes back to 2002. I've been paying token payments of £1.00 since approx Jan 2003, but as im in the process of sorting all matters financial i thought i would CCA C.K Edrupt just to make sure ive not been paying my hard-earned cash to some dodgy outfit that doesnt pass it on to the original creditor.

 

Im fairly confident that Provident are receiving my token payments from the solicitors, so thats all ok. I do have a problem paying back the extortionate interest though, im quite happy to repay the original amount borrowed (£1000) but the £620..hmmm..seems steep.

Does anyone think its worth my while trying to come to some sort of settlement for the original amount without the interest with Provident? If so, who would i direct my offer to? The solicitors or Provident?

Once again thanks for all of your comments and insights.

Much appreciated!

Han x

[taurus66]

Hi Hannah

I have been paying provident token payments through their in -house collections,sent for my credit agreement which is posted in the consumer credit agreement forum. This is the response I got from Peterbard,might be worth running yours past him too.

Hope this helps.

 

 

" Hi

I have only glanced so far but i see no interest rate which is of course a prescribed term.

Also the apr is incorrect according to my calculations it should be 181%.

This could be construed as predudicial to the debtor in that the correct information was not supplied in order to make an informed choice and render the agreement unenforceable under 127(1)

I also take the point about the extortionate credit bargain.May i ask what the status of the account is currently.

PM me if you like"

 

Best regards

Peter

[hannahbtw]

Hi taurus66!

 

Thanks for your info. I will PM Peterbard and see if he can do an analysis on my agreement too! I'm not trying to get out of paying what is rightfully due, after all, i did take out the loan, knowing the high interest...but it just seems unfair that they are allowed to charge so much to people who are struggling as it is.

Thanks again for your helpful information!

Han x

[Josie8]

Can anyone tell me if this agreement is valid?

I received this in response to a CCA request to Provident Personal Credit. I've blanked out my address and signature details, they were there on the original copy though!

I signed this agreement at home, but was never sent a second copy of any agreement in the post, or given the 5 day "cooling off" period, or any further info regarding cancellation. As far as i can see on this agreement there is very minimal T&Cs .

Would love to hear fellow CAGgers views on this document. Is it legal..i know the APR is shocking, but i dont know if its illegal in any other respect.

All views appreciated!

Han x

 

An interest rate in excess of 42.5% is likely to be demmed extortionate - at 181% the courts will declare the agreement void and you won't have to pay it back

[renegotiation]

Is this not an APR of 70%? I'm a bit confused. If it isn't then what would the amount repayable be on an APR of 70%? I can't figure anything different to £1700. Waiting to be corrected...

[hannahbtw]

The APR is 170.7%. I have no idea what the interest rate is because it isnt stated on the agreement, and i had no subsequent paperwork through from Provident after i took the loan out. Does the agreement need to show an interest rate for it to be a "proper" agreement. Sorry about my lack of technical terms (lol). I really want to be rid of this debt, as ive been paying token payments for so long. Does anybody recommend making Provvy a F&F offer and if so, where should i start? half? less than that?

Provident/CK Edupt haven't provided me with any of the other information i asked for when i sent my CCA request.I really wanted them to send a statement of account, just to see how much ive already paid over the years, in small token payments.

I'm at a loss with what to do with it really. Any suggestions?

Han x

[hannahbtw]

Anyone.....?

I'm thinking i might offer them a pound....hehe!

Oh the joys of being in debt... *sigh*

Han x

[Josie8]

Does it refer in CCA T&C that they will advance further monies at their discretion or something similar )?

[Worried37]

Morning all,

 

I worked for Provident Personal Credit for many years, please don't shoot me, but this is the credit agreement that they issue loans to the customer with. Sorry to be unhelpful, but it all looks correct to me.

[Josie8]

Can you please clarify for me whether the amount shown on the agreement is the debt you are facing now - or did they advance you further money on top of that initial £1,000?

[Josie8]

However in any case the interest rate shown by the figures on the agreement is clearly wrong as it isn't 170.7%. This is a prescribed term and if it is incorrect the agreement is invalid and unenforceable.

[hannahbtw]

Hi Josie8

The only money advanced to me was £1000.00, the solicitors acting on their behalf want the whole lot now, plus the £620.00 interest.

I'm not too mathematical-minded, so have no idea if the 170.7% apr is right for a loan of that amount to compute to £620.00 in interest over 54 weeks.

I just have issue with paying back such a huge amount of interest if all i borrowed was £1000.00.

[Josie8]

Hi Josie8

The only money advanced to me was £1000.00, the solicitors acting on their behalf want the whole lot now, plus the £620.00 interest.

I'm not too mathematical-minded, so have no idea if the 170.7% apr is right for a loan of that amount to compute to £620.00 in interest over 54 weeks.

I just have issue with paying back such a huge amount of interest if all i borrowed was £1000.00.

 

 

If the figure quoted for the APR is incorrect then this will invalidate the whole agreement and you will not have to pay anything back at all. I have sent your loan figures to a maths genius to check APR etc and will let you know the result

 

Of course if you WANT to pay them the £100 (because you feel sorry for them then thats a different matter............... ).

[hannahbtw]

Ha! oh yes, i feel soooo sorry for them..the poor over-worked and underpaid souls. perhaps i should repay the whole amount, plus a little extra so they can buy themselves a couple of up-to-date maths books...then again....

perhaps if i bought myself the maths books...lol!

Thanks for passing this on to your genius! i await the findings with fingers securely crossed!

Han x

[Josie8]

8.1 What are ‘prescribed terms’?

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.

• credit limit – see Q8.5
  
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
  
• repayments – see Q8.9.

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

So if and when you get your CCA reply, it is so important that you check its validity!

 

The document is here:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...it/oft786a.pdf

 

 

[hannahbtw]

Thanks for that Josie8,

So the "rate of interest" as a prescribed term, that isn't the same as the "APR" shown on my agreement. i.e 170.7 %? and the "credit limit"? whats that about? is that the £1000.00?

Blimey, its more complicated than i thought!

Han x

[Josie8]

Thanks for that Josie8,

So the "rate of interest" as a prescribed term, that isn't the same as the "APR" shown on my agreement. i.e 170.7 %? and the "credit limit"? whats that about? is that the £1000.00?

Blimey, its more complicated than i thought!

Han x

 

 

ok 170.7% is correct as the APR so that will definitely be deemed by the courts to be excessive and will be reduced or the whole agreement scrapped but thats at the judges discretion.......I'm going to look a couple of things up and I'll get back to you

[hannahbtw]

Thanks hun,

I'll be here most of the day so whenever you discover anything that might help me out please post it up

Han x