NAT WEST will not return my PPI

[Maggiebroom]

Anyone Please???

[hellhasnofury]

PS I have no CCA or PPI agreements for anything at all.

 

Sorry Maggie, I am probably a bit thick but I don't know what you mean by the above.

 

Does it mean that you do not have or kept the originals?

 

They have complied with the sar or ca request and have not given you them?

[Maggiebroom]

Sorry Maggie, I am probably a bit thick but I don't know what you mean by the above.

 

Does it mean that you do not have or kept the originals?

 

They have complied with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) or ca request and have not given you them?

 

Sorry for the confusion. What I mean is I don't have any originals. I must have lost them.

I asked for all my statements for the credit card, but they only sent me for 2001.

So I need the others up to date.

Also I have asked for the CCA's for both the card and the PPI, but so far they are out of time and are now at the criminal stage.

 

Does that make it all a bit clearer?

 

Maggiebroom

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Maggie,

 

Yes that makes it clearer.

 

Right they have not complied to your sar or your ca. The have commited offences now

 

Look at this link

 

Data Protection Complaints – Information Commissioner’s Office (Information Commissioners Office)

[Maggiebroom]

Today I recieved this letter from Nat West. It is dated the 7th, so it must have been posted before they recieved my letter (see post *23).

 

Could somone have a look and tell me what my next step is.

 

http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb198/maggiebroom/?action=view&current=Terminationlettercopy.jpg

 

I am not worried but do not know where I go from here. Obviously they are getting heavy with me, but I still haven't had any proper copies of relevant statements ( S.A.R) neither have I recieved any CCA's or PPI's, so they are now in default.

 

I think the letters have crossed in the post

 

can anyone help??

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

The link above for photobucket does not work so try this instead.

 

Terminationlettercopy.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[Maggiebroom]

Thats better

I haven't mastered this technique yet, but I will

[Maggiebroom]

Any help with the letter please??? (see post *31)

 

thanks

 

maggiebroom

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello maggie,

 

check this thread : Consumer Credit Act - Resources Workshop ...

the reason it was created is to help CAG members with different sorts of CCA letters....

 

 

Hope it helps...

 

 

kind regards,

 

 

itsme

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Maggie,

 

Have you had a look on the above link.

 

This looks a good letter to send to them:D Have a read. Maybe remove or amend some part to you details, etc

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

Before I continue I wish to establish that I am not seeking to avoid responsibility for any alleged debt or breach of any alleged agreement that I may have or have had.

 

I wrote to you on the 2xxxxxxrequesting a copy of the executed agreement under the Consumer Credit Act (1974).

I also asked for a statement of account.

A copy of that letter is attached for ease of reference.

I also requested an executed deed of assignment documenting your involvement; this too has not been supplied.

 

Accordingly, it is my consideration that you have been unable to supply an agreement because no such agreement exists.

 

Consequently I am unable to acknowledge any debt to your company

 

Your non-compliance with my request means that your company has committed an offence under Section 77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, summarily punishable by a Level 4 fine on the standard scale.

 

A credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please take note that any legal action you may contemplate will be vigorously defended and contested.

Furthermore your actions arguably do not comply with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidelines of July 2003, in that you have ‘communicated with [me] in an inaccurate or misleading manner (section 2.1) by ‘presenting information in that it creates a false or misleading impression’ and ‘failing to provide [me] with information on the status of debts’.

 

Notwithstanding the above I believe that your operatives have sought to contact me on a number of occasions, I would imagine regarding your Company’s viewpoint on the above now disputed agreement.

I now consider that considering your failures as mentioned above, any telephone calls from you constitute harassment and so from this date any further calls to me will be reported to the Police.

In addition you are in breach of the OFT’s July 2003 guidelines in that you are wrongly pursing [me] contrary to Section 2.8(i).

 

Another worrying facet of this whole case is the unlawful dissemination of my data by your company to a third party. Under the Data Protection Act (199 I have principled rights in that:

 

(Schedule I)

1. Personal data shall be processed fairly and lawfully.

2. Personal data shall be obtained only for one or more specified and lawful purposes, and shall not be further processed in any manner incompatible with that purpose or those purposes.

(Schedule II)

1. The subject has given his consent.

2. The processing is necessary “for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party.”

 

I have recently conducted an audit of my personal credit reports supplied by Experian and Equifax.

Within both files, an entry referenced to the alleged debt is lodged.

 

This is recorded as “In Default”.

 

However, I note that files have been updated continually since then and I can only deduce that it is your firm updating my credit file without my consent or that your company is disseminating my information to a third party without my consent.

 

The fact that you have not provided me with a copy of the agreement negates any Notice of Default being served on me, as required by the conditions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Incidentally, if the documentation were to be produced, you will be aware the default notice serves to cancel any original terms and conditions and as such cancels any right you or my creditor might have, implied or otherwise, to share my information without my consent.

 

I would then be looking to receive substantial compensation from your firm for this breach of my rights.

 

 

What I require

 

I require you with immediate effect to ensure that all data held by you regarding the alleged agreement/debt is removed from any and all Credit Reference Agency database.

 

Ensure that all data held by you regarding me is fully destroyed.

 

Ensure that no further telephone calls are made to me, or my place of work.

 

Ensure that all correspondence is made in writing.

 

I require written confirmation of the above together with a quarterly statement that no data has been processed by you regarding me.

 

Failure to comply

Failure to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in the matter being referred to the Information Commissioner.

Failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will cause me to refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading, and Trading Standards.

Failure to comply with the requirements Office of Fair Trading guidelines will lead to a report being submitted.

Continued telephone contact will generate a complaint for harassment to the police.

If you fail to comply with any or all of the above I reserve the right to take action against you without further contact.

I expect to hear from you within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

Failure to do so will be taken that you failed to comply with my request and I will consider the matter closed.

 

Any further action on your part or that of my alleged original creditor pursuant to your and/or their breaches of my statutory rights will be taken as a wilful act of harassment and each instance will be reported to the police.

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[Maggiebroom]

That letter looks just what I want.

Tomorrow (if I can get my damn broadband up and going again), I will have to get another letter off to them.

 

Thanks so much for your help. I have really had enough today, so a bit of your support has been so good for me.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

PS. I had a look at the resources thread and have copied some of the info for reference tomorrow. Very Useful thread.

[itsmeandonlyme]

PS. I had a look at the resources thread and have copied some of the info for reference tomorrow. Very Useful thread.

 

 

glad you find it useful:)))

 

Great letter Hell:)))well, as usual:)

x

[Maggiebroom]

I have MAJOR PC probs at the moment and can only get the Internet on my OH's laptop so am having to download letters and transfer files onto my main pc, with one of those stick thingies.

Its a bit of a pain, but I have to put up with it as I need some hardware replaced inside my PC's brainbox and cannot afford it at the present time. Still it's better that being completely off the air as then I wouldn't have found this lovely site and had all the help I have had.

 

An update will follow as soon as I am up and running again.

 

Many thanks so far, to one and all.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Can someone make a list IN PLAIN ENGLISH of what the prescribed terms are for a CCA.

 

I have read the legal terms in the sections from the actual Act, but it would be a help if someone could put a sort of list down that I could understand.

 

I am writing a letter to Nat West today as they have not complied with my request to supply my CCA or PPI agreements. I want to fully understand what I am putting on paper before I take the plunge. This letter is very important for me, and if I am rattling the legal threats I want to be absolutely right.

 

Hopefully someone will reply fairly urgently.

 

Maggiebroom:)

[itsmeandonlyme]

maggi, r u talking about prescribed terms for the properly executed agreement under CCA 1974 ?

If they havent sent you copy of the agreement- than use a copy of Non compliance that Hell put above...If you are complaining about not receiving PPI statements than its non compliance with SAR copy of the letter you can find in library Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters .

 

Regards,

 

 

itsme

[Maggiebroom]

maggi, r u talking about prescribed terms for the properly executed agreement under CCA 1974 ?

If they havent sent you copy of the agreement- than use a copy of Non compliance that Hell put above...If you are complaining about not receiving PPI statements than its non compliance with S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) copy of the letter you can find in library Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters .

 

Regards,

 

 

itsme

 

Many thanks Itsme. I wasn't around much yesterday and I am having PC probs at the moment. I have to use my hubbies laptop next to my PC and keep switching between the two to use the Internet. However I am managing so far................

 

I have received nothing from Nat West regarding my CCA or my PPI agreements. They did send me some statements up to 2001, but as my query is for 2003 onwards they weren't much help. So I shall be sending them a sharp letter and complaining about their non compliance with the data request. I believe that at the end of next week they will have committed a criminal offence regarding the CCA, but I shall have to check all the dates first.

 

I have now got the plain english translation of prescribed terms and thanks for that. Sometimes the legal definitions tend to cloud the issue and once you know what is meant it is easier to write letters.

Yourself and Hell have been so helpful that I don't know so far what I would have done without you both.

 

I shall let you have another update asap.

 

maggiebroom

[jubaxt]

SORRY TO HIJACK BUT NEED SOME ADVICE-MY hp with welcome is still running-do i add cci to the premium theyve added or only to actual payments i've made?-they've sent me statements back to 2004 and the missold ppi is still included in the outstanding balance-thanks

[Maggiebroom]

I finally heard from Nat West this morning .

I thought I would give everyone a laugh. Have a look at this and see what you think it is supposedly a true copy of my CCAagreement

 

NatWestCCACopy0014-2-.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

and this is the letter that came with it.

 

NatWestLetter0013.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Are they for real :o

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. They must think I am a right fool. For a start they took a month to find the CCA copy so they are in default anyway. Secondly the condescending letter makes my blood boil. Why do they treat us like idiots.??

 

Anyones thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated and a bit of advice as to what I should reply. (Apart from the obvious vernacular language. )

 

Somewhat urgent advice needed please

 

maggiebroom

[hellhasnofury]

I finally heard from Nat West this morning .

I thought I would give everyone a laugh. Have a look at this and see what you think it is supposedly a true copy of my CCAagreement

 

NatWestCCACopy0014-2-.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

and this is the letter that came with it.

 

NatWestLetter0013.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Are they for real :o

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. They must think I am a right fool. For a start they took a month to find the CCA copy so they are in default anyway. Secondly the condescending letter makes my blood boil. Why do they treat us like idiots.??

 

Anyones thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated and a bit of advice as to what I should reply. (Apart from the obvious vernacular language. )

 

Somewhat urgent advice needed please

 

maggiebroom

 

Hello,

 

Maggie, I have the exact same letter from them. and another that is much ruder, when I questioned the fact that it was ilegable. they wrote back to inform me that tough, they would only respond back when the enforcement authories told then to do so:rolleyes: I have now asked the oft to look into the request and maybe put a bomb up their bottom. to make them comply, I am under the impression that these are application forms which do not have the prescribed terms etc. and that is why they are being so defensive

 

You do have a nice little letter to send them, do you:D

 

Firstly maybe ask them for confirmation that this is the true executed credit agreement:D

[Maggiebroom]

I have every template going for all sorts of letters but not one for that, so if you can point me in the right direction. I shall take your advice and ask them to clarify if this is what are claiming is an agreement (even without all the prescribed terms).

 

They are completely out of time anyway so they would have to go to court now to make me pay.

 

Lets see what happens next. The fight goes on.

 

maggiebroom

[Gingi1]

Hi there, sorry to hijack, but my bank are doing the exact same thing. They continually send me copies that you can not read and that do not detail the amount of PPI. I have a complaint pending with the Financial Ombudsman, so I'll let you know what he says.

 

Good luck

[Maggiebroom]

Hi all

 

This is my reply to Nat West for their rude and ignorant letter.

 

Re Account no: 00000000000

With reference to your letter dated 22nd June; I would like to clarify one or two facts.

My original request letter for a copy of an original CCA under s77/78 of the Act was sent to you

on 14th May 2007 and signed for on the 15th May 2007 according to the Royal Mail recorded delivery tracking facility. That request was acknowledged by virtue of the fact that that my cheque was returned stating that it was not needed; thereby denying my legal right to a copy of the original CCA. The cheque was represented to you on the 23rd May 2007 and was signed for on the 24th May 2007; again by Royal Mail recorded delivery tracking facility. The fact that the letter did not arrive or was not dealt with by your office until the 15th June is neither here nor there; your company was already in default as the 12 working days limit had elapsed on Monday the 11th June. That cheque (no 001837) has now been entered onto my account.

Under the CCA s77/78 you were obliged to send me a true copy of the actual credit agreement in a clear and readable condition. I received an illegible copy of an application form, which does not contain all of the Prescribed Terms as specified in s. 60

This does not conform to the Agreement Regulations s.60 on several counts, and is therefore improperly executed as per s.61; this alone renders the agreement unenforceable without the order of a court, s.65.

S.60 Form and content of agreements

(1) The Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements, and the regulations shall contain such provisions as appear to him appropriate with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware of—

(a) the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a consumer credit agreement),

© the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

(d) any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular—

(a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in documents, and other specified material to be excluded;

(b) contain requirements to ensure that specified information is clearly brought to the attention of the debtor or hirer, and that one part of a document is not given insufficient or excessive prominence compared with another.

And not properly executed as specified in s.61

CCA 1974 s(61) (1)

A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

S.65 Consequences of improper execution

(1) An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.

I find it difficult to understand why you do not forward a true copy of the original signed agreement, and can only conclude that it does not exist. The almost illegible form you sent me, states at the top that is an application form, and it does not include all the required Prescribed Terms.

There are also discrepancies to this matter under s.85 of the CCA 1974, which I have quoted below.

My credit-token was renewed in September 2005, but a true copy of the properly executed agreement was not supplied to me then.

 

S. 85 Duty on issue of new credit-tokens

(1) Whenever, in connection with a credit-token agreement, a credit-token (other than the first) is given by the creditor to the debtor, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it.

(2) If the creditor fails to comply with this section—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

The credit agreement is therefore improperly executed, and as a consequence is irredeemably un-enforceable: (Wilson v First County Trust CA). Can you please confirm that the ‘credit agreement’/application you recently sent to me is the documentation you are relying on in this disagreement.

Furthermore, you should remember that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a correctly executed credit agreement is a very clear legal dispute and therefore the following applies:

 

• You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

• You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

• You may not pass this account to any third party.

• You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

• You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

 

 

Be warned, the CCA 1974 is clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. If there is no regulated agreement, as seems likely in this case, then you cannot issue a default as I have not breached any valid, regulated agreement, and therefore I require that you remove the default notice issued against this account (received on 4th May 2007), immediately.

Please accept this letter that in the event of any adverse reporting while this account is in clear legal dispute, I will issue a claim at court to get any adverse credit history that has been added by your company removed. I will also ask the court to order production of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA 1974, was signed by me in respect of this alleged debt.

 

Please note, you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with the credit reference agencies and third parties.

 

This S.10 Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused; and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998, to do so would be unwarranted.

 

I will also ask the court to order production of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA was signed by me in respect of this alleged debt.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect this to mean that your company agree to remove all such data. I look forward to your final decision on this complaint within 14 days. This should include your proposed actions in relation to the lack of a regulated credit agreement.

Yours faithfully

 

I used a bit of a letter from Hellhasnofury (thanks Hell ) and altered it to my own circumstances.

Anyones opinion greatly appreciated.

 

Maggiebroom

[reidnet]

Nice One Maggie

 

Ian

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Maggie,

 

I did mention that you have a nice letter:D The natwest may get a few of these I think:D

I have reported the Natwest cc for their arrogant and rude manner re non-compliance of my cca request. and they have asked me for permission of disclose to nw:D

 

Get a complaint into the OFT maggie, lets give the good old nw a bit of a shake up:lol:

 

Well done and keep us posted