goodwill gesture from Cap one **WON**

[Mistermind]

Very very rough ballpark figure -- for £20 unlawful charge 4 years ago,

 

8% statutory simple interest would come to £6.40,

 

1.85% per month compounded Contractual Interest would come to about 5 times as much (for 4 years accumulation).

 

But cards and banks realise that, so they tend to give in easier on 8% interest claims. The big interest you already paid, it is not a windfall, it is your own money. All comes down to if you have the time and stomach for a protracted wrestling match.

[karhuss]

didn't file N1. I think it is best to go for CCI. Can you tell me what to do from here as I have already sent my request for Refund and LBA and they have gone past the deadline. Also I have no statements just a list of charges that they sent me.

[Mistermind]

Your are entitled to statements, those who do not provide what they hold on you, including statements, are in line to do porridge.

 

Is the list of charges provided to you accurate and complete? Not accidentally missing out charges? As they were provided by Cap1, presumably on Cap1 headed paper, the judge may accept it.

 

If you send a stiff letter, pointing out Cap1's eligibility for porridge, but to save time you are prepared to accept one-fifth the interest refundable. If they do not offer settle now, you will

 

(1) Additionally recalculate and claim full Contract Interest

 

(2) Lodge your claim at court, thus incurring Cap1 further charges

 

(3) You are one hell of a tough guy with no sign of apprehension and doubt, and it is not worth their while to stall, they will pay up in the end, but it will cost them all. If they do not settle now, you will go all the way and not stop until Cap1 is summoned to court to reveal their full costs. You are aware Dublin banks charge £3, and you will point out the ludicrous money-making situation where Cap1 charges £??.

 

So there!

 

If you are convincing they will back off. But if you show weakness they will chance their luck.

[karhuss]

Please can some one tell me if this ok with regards to my case as I want to put n my claim with court asap and prefably with contractual interest. I obviously need my statements to do so not the list of charges that they originally sent me. I will be posting recorded delivery today.

 

Mr Robert Udy,

Capital One Bank (Europe) plc.,

Trent House,

Station Street,

Nottingham

NG2 3HX

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Mr Udy,

 

Account: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

In response to your letter dated 20th April I am very disappointed that you can not come back to me with a detailed response of my SAR within the time limit given.

 

Please be aware that I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act information request dated 14th March 2007. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that you only supplied me with a list of charges not showing the purchase or cash interest that was being applied at that time at the time nor the transaction.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

The time for compliance with my request has now expired. If you do not comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

 

I would also like to give you one more opportunity (which I might add is my third) to refund my charges in full with statutory interest of 8% otherwise I will have no option but to recalculate my claim with contractual interest. Additionally, I will lodge a claim in my local County Court which will obviously incur Capital One with further charges and settlement of a much higher claim.

 

It is in Capital One's best interest to settle the claim now within 7 days of the date of this letter before Court Action is taken.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[ant80808]

That looks fine to me - i agree with you about asking for statutory interest, backed up by the threat of amending the claim to include compounded contractual instead if they don't cough up. I have already claimed £918 from HSBC and am now going through all my dead card accounts, got a letter back from Capital one today saying they were looking into my claim for £340. I didn't ask for any interest yet as i am rather confused about which stage you are allowed to ask for interest at. Can i re-submit it with interest or have i missed the boat if i didn't ask for it in the first instance? Also have my egg and an old barclaycard to go too....

[karhuss]

From what I can gather if it goes to court you win stat interest anyway.

[Mistermind]

Ant,

 

I am no lawyer, so what I say is based on common sense. I suggest at this stage the two parties are circling each other trying to establish agreement on what is claimable. If you put forward a claim to the card they are not obliged to accept it verbatim. They could offer you less than you ask, or even more (has been known). At this early stage with 6-year-old documents a little shaky, it would be reasonable if figures are not finalised and correct on first computation.

 

Even if the card saves both versions of your claim they could not say you were messing them about trying for as much as possible. It is after you have submitted your claim bundle to the court that you should not try amending anything. Although in theory you are entitled so to do, with a lot of messing, in practice your case could be thrown out by the judge as an Abuse of Process.

 

Contractual Interest is what was unlawfully taken off you -- it is Repossession of what was rightfully yours. 8% simple interest per annum is a notional compensation for your

DEPRIVATION

of opoportunity, i.e. had you not been robbed you could have bought apples and sold them with a nice little earner, or you could have saved in a Building Society. To me it is a pity to call it Statutory "Interest", as this gets confusing in a card or bank card lawsuit situation -- I would perfer to call it Statutory Compensation. In a lawsuit against your garage or drycleaners, Statutory Interest there would be no such confusing double meaning.

 

Both Contractual and Statutory Interest are due to you --

if

you win your case in court. But if your card declines battle then you get awarded the entirety of your claim, so you should claim both in the expectation of a court win or opponent gone awol. The downside is that the card may be under orders to stall and try your patience.

 

The more convincing your presentation, the less they want to fight. If the card refuses to pay and prefers to fight, then fine -- see them in court, except they then have court charges to pay in addition. So pros and cons weighed on all sides.

 

Good luck.

[karhuss]

Mistermind, do you think that my letter covers me to put in for contractual then if they don't respond. Had to cover myself somehow. I havent got some of the statements (only about 60% of them that I already had) just a list of charges off them, so on your advice have tried to ask for the statements as well as giving them another chance. Didn't post today until someone looks it over for me. I don't want to go wrong so they can hang me. By the way, I am a tough GAL not guy!

[Mistermind]

karhuss, if you are one hell of a tough GAL that's even more frightening. Tell Cap1 that you have a friend called Mistermind who is even more frightening than you.

 

If you have any doubts about the morality of our reclaims, consider this. On this very day Dublin banks charge £3. NatWest charges £39. Tell me NatWest is not making a profit. Tell me this profit has not induced them to bend over backwards to bounce cheques. For 20 years banks and cards have got away with this -- 20 years of blood and tears from the hard up, the helpless and the depressed.

 

No need to say, "If you would not mind could you possibly please, pretty please, consider giving me back just a little, as little as you choose? When you have time please?"

 

This is your money. Thanks for keeping it warm for you.

BUT YOU WANT IT BACK NOW -- for justice, by law.

 

As for missing statements, one Egg cardholder was sent some sheets, with others "accidentally" missing. When she went back and insisted, the missing statements were delivered. Guess what, the accidentally omitted statements contained most of the charges.

 

If you wish to save time and settle for what you have on hand, fine. But without statements you will have to estimate or guess what variable Contractual Interest was in force at any time. Your claim would then look a little woolly. When you finally submit a firm claim bundle to court, Cap1 could suddenly say, what's this claim? Interest rates all guesswork and inaccurate, so what else is inaccurate? They could make a big play about this, and if it goes to court the judge could say, if tough gal karhuss makes a claim, it is up to karhuss to collect the evidence to back it up, whatever it takes.

 

If you are content to settle for 8% for a quick result, fine, I would be happy for you too. But this weakened demand does give poker-playing Cap1 a clue you may not be one TOUGH gal, and that could encourage Cap1 to play you along and stall to see how much less they can settle for. Suggest employ the words FINAL and ULTIMATUM, in BLOOD RED CAPITALS.

 

Perhaps admit you are one gentle gal, but your friend Mistermind is one hell of a tough guy, you don't want to mess with Mistermind, phew.

 

 

 

If you need a bit of cheer and camaraderie, visit the following to see how claims are done in Egg Forum, now winning on a wide front.

 

XX

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/53376-e-day-victory-over-4.html

[karhuss]

Tell me Mistermind with your big strong muscles (wolf whistle) would you be confident to send that letter if I adjusted it to third and FINAL time. I am not sure about ULTIMATUM. I just want my moneyyyyyy!!!!! and the more the better and as soon as poss.

[Mistermind]

The more definite the tone, I believe the more definite the response.

They also want to know where the goalposts stand, under instructions as they are to go to the brink as far as possible, but not to fall over.

 

GL.

[karhuss]

does the letter cover me to put in for contractual interest if they dont pay up or will I have to stick to stat int.

[Mistermind]

One man I know obtained full refund within 47 days. One girl I know needed 79 days to obtain just her statements.

 

I believe on the other side they are instructed to read between the lines. If they think you are bluffing they will stall and stall, so that you give up in disgust or settle for less. It's not only what you say, it's how you say it. You do not need to fire off a nuclear missile. You need to show you have the red pushbutton to do it. A suggested text below, in no uncertain terms.

 

Your Tough Guy

XX

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

Dear Mr Udy,

Account: XXXXXXXXXXXXX

In response to your letter dated 20th April I make it clear that you

still have not complied with my Subject Access Request. The response time limit laid down by law has already been breached by you , and penalties declared by law are now applicable against you.

The documents you supplied in response to my request dated 14th March 2007 in accordance with the Data Protection Act fell short of the legal requirement of "all personal data on myself held by you". You supplied merely a manually transcribed list of charges without transaction dates, or Contractual Interest rates levied against them every month afterwards.

Please understand I am not requesting a favour. I am today offering you

your final chance

to make good your breach and comply with the law -- unless you choose to show contempt for the law of England. I shall include this letter and your response as part of my court bundle.

Unless within 7 days of the date of this letter

I receive satisfactory response and delivery, I shall apply to the County Court for an order to enforce full Subject Access Request compliance, resulting in penalties and damages against you at the discretion of the court. The costs of this further Subject Access Request action will be added to my action for reclaim of charges and interest.

However, to save time, if within 7 days of this letter you forward full refund of all charges you previously listed, plus 8% Statutory Interest per annum, namely a total of

£???.??

I would be prepared to accept same with full and final satisfaction, including the abandonment of my Subject Access Request action. As you realise such a settlement figure now will be at a substantial discount to what you will pay in court later, i.e. Contractual Interest compounded monthly over several years will total several times the value of simple interest at 8% per annum.

The choice is yours, but the 7-day clock has started ticking. Once my law suit is filed be assured I will pursue your good self to the ultimate limit of the law.

Yours faithfully,

[karhuss]

OOOOhhhhh that's good! You are a wonderful man!!! I am on the job now and putting it in the post this morning. Hope you will help me if I don't get a response becuase I dont have a clue how to work out contractual interest. Ah, no mention in the letter that I would recalculate, perhaps "what you will pay in court as I will recalculate and claim compunded contractual interest"???

[Mistermind]

Text amended. Computation of C.I. on excel is no sweat, just entering the numbers into the slots, the rest is automated.

 

Have to go and earn my salary how, good luck honey, lets hopefully those who talk tough will not be asked to act tough. But let bullies be in no doubt we will fight them.

 

CHORUS -- We are the champions, we are the champions......

[karhuss]

thank you again

[karhuss]

Letter sent today via first class recorded, thanks to Mistermind's help. Another one for Mr Udy to add to his pile.

[karhuss]

received another letter from Mr Udy today saying that he has now investigated and £250 is his final offer. tHIS

[karhuss]

Many Apologies For Half A Message As My Computer Crashed. Anyway The Letter Off The Famous Mr Udy Was Sent Before He Received The Letter That I Posted Reegarding 7 Days To Pay Up, Send Statements Before Contractual Interest Goes On. Should I Ignore This Letter And Friday When The 7 Days Are Up Go To Court First For Non-compliance?

[Mistermind]

If the 2 letters crossed in the post,

if your letter was dated 27th April with 7 days deadline,

Mr Udy will understand the deadline is 4th May, Friday.

Ball in his court.

[karhuss]

I will have to go to the county court and put in for non compliance first though won't I?

[Mistermind]

Your letter would have arrived only 2 days ago,

then it needed to travel from desk to desk, basket to basket, in an office snowed under by claimants.

 

Then Cap1 staff needs to confer with the manager what to do about your firm letter.

 

If they start to order statements for 6 years, instructions need to be keyed onto computer, then an overnight computer run, then the output needs to be delivered from one building to another.

 

It would have been amazing if you received statements this morning.

 

Why worry your pretty head when there are still 2 days before the deadline? Plenty of time for escalation, if it comes to that.

[karhuss]

guess what the postie brought yesterday morning???? My copy statements were sent by special delivery not in 7 days buy 8, so the letter must have frightened them somewhere. Anyway can someone please tell me where I start trying to work out the contractual interest with Vampiress's spreadsheet.

[Mistermind]

Hi karhuss, happy Bank Holiday. I went to Vampiress but her spreadsheets were unavailable, and I cannot read through 73 pages. My own spreadsheet below just as good.

 

If you simply cut and paste the table below,

 

filling in unlawful charges in column 2 (with penalty transaction date in column 1 if possible, say 15/01/2001 instead of 01/01/2001 -- more convincing),

 

filling in the interest rate flucuating month by month in column 3 (shown somewhere on your statement, e.g. 1.85% per month).

 

Then PM me. I shall PM back the fully computed C.I.

If at the end of any month your Cap1 account did not have a debit interest, you need to say, as C.I. would not accrue for that month.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

date unlawful charge interest rate

 

01-Jan-01

01-Feb-01

01-Mar-01

01-Apr-01

01-May-01

01-Jun-01

01-Jul-01

01-Aug-01

01-Sep-01

01-Oct-01

01-Nov-01

01-Dec-01

01-Jan-02

01-Feb-02

01-Mar-02

01-Apr-02

01-May-02

01-Jun-02

01-Jul-02

01-Aug-02

01-Sep-02

01-Oct-02

01-Nov-02

01-Dec-02

01-Jan-03

01-Feb-03

01-Mar-03

01-Apr-03

01-May-03

01-Jun-03

01-Jul-03

01-Aug-03

01-Sep-03

01-Oct-03

01-Nov-03

01-Dec-03

01-Jan-04

01-Feb-04

01-Mar-04

01-Apr-04

01-May-04

01-Jun-04

01-Jul-04

01-Aug-04

01-Sep-04

01-Oct-04

01-Nov-04

01-Dec-04

01-Jan-05

01-Feb-05

01-Mar-05

01-Apr-05

01-May-05

01-Jun-05

01-Jul-05

01-Aug-05

01-Sep-05

01-Oct-05

01-Nov-05

01-Dec-05

01-Jan-06

01-Feb-06

01-Mar-06

01-Apr-06

01-May-06

01-Jun-06

01-Jul-06

01-Aug-06

01-Sep-06

01-Oct-06

01-Nov-06

01-Dec-06

01-Jan-07

01-Feb-07

01-Mar-07

01-Apr-07

[karhuss]

Just sat down to list all the charges and interest rates and the statements are just print offs with the charges listed and the words "INTEREST APPLIED". It shows no rates. Now I am well cheesed off. I have a phone number for the Executive Response Dept. Is it worth giving them a ring? Can I do anything without these rates?