Bailiffs Forcing Entry and Using Restraint - Please Read, Important - Deadline

[blacksheep1979]

and you are still not reading what I am saying

[stan5131]

and you are still not reading what I am saying

 

 

The new bill (as I understand it) will give automatic forced entry if bailiffs fail to gain entry.

[JonCris]

and you are still not reading what I am saying

 

I think the problem is we are!.........Your view is debtors should not be allowed to have anything nice or of value....cos they don't deserve them as most are just plain feckless..............& if they do you.......via your agents........ should be allowed to break into their home whilst committing an assault & take them....forgot to mention.........they all went out & bought expensive telly's, cars etc knowing full well that they couldn't pay for them.........they should have seen that redundancy, illness, rip off by the by the creditors coming......shouldn't they..........what nonsense

[stan5131]

Being unable to pay your debts is not a crime! So many people fall on hard times through not fault of their own. You (Blacksheep) should take time to read some of the threads on the bailiff forum and see for yourself the fear and despair caused.

 

I personally, could never endorse such infliction upon my worst enemy - even if they owed me money (which has happened).

 

Creditors should be looking at other methods ie attachment of earnings etc. Those debtors who CAN afford to pay will cough up at the thought of forced entry. Those who CANT will be at their wits end!

 

Who knows where this will lead.

[stan5131]

Just looking at your threads Blacksheep as I was curious as to your agenda. Of partiular interest, is the thread you started asking if you could claim back money you paid to DCA's if they fail to comply with CCA request!!!!

 

People in glass houses.... springs to mind!

[JonCris]

There must be posters on here who ask questions to simply find out what WE would do & to try & circumvent our strategies

[caledfwlch]

Even without the arguing over can pay/wont pay, these new laws just simply cross a line, that no government of britain, even at the worst times, even with mad or tyrant kings on the throne dared to bring in.

[JonCris]

Correct caled...........& to think Magna Carta was a complete waste of time

[blacksheep1979]

I think the problem is we are!.........Your view is debtors should not be allowed to have anything nice or of value....cos they don't deserve them as most are just plain feckless..............& if they do you.......via your agents........ should be allowed to break into their home whilst committing an assault & take them....forgot to mention.........they all went out & bought expensive telly's, cars etc knowing full well that they couldn't pay for them.........they should have seen that redundancy, illness, rip off by the by the creditors coming......shouldn't they..........what nonsense

 

 

Why should people be allowed to keep luxuary goods, especially if they have finance outstanding on them?

 

Assault I guess would only happen if someone resisted and assaulted the person collecting the items - and if as I suggested the police should be there this wouldn't happen and if it did it would be the debtor up for assault.

 

(to stan) And yes I asked if I could claim money back from a company if they failed in their duties to comply with a cca request and if you actually bothered to read that thread it was more for the motivational purpose of getting them to actually respond. You do seem to like taking a few sentances out of context don't you - you don't work in government or the press at all do you?

 

If someone can come up with one good (and I mean good not why can't they or why shouldn't they) reason as to why someone who owes money should be allowed to keep luxuary goods then I will personally collect 100 signatures for the petition.

 

I just know that if I had some goods that weren't 100% needed for my daily life - ie I don't NEED to watch eastenders on a 42" plasma tv then I'd rather give that up and stop harrassing calls/visits from people trying to get money from me.

[JonCris]

No onone is suggesting they should be allowed to keep 'luxury' goods.........Just what you might consider luxury I don't know but a telly & a car seem pretty well essential items these days......What most right thinking people are objecting to is the manner & methods (which you support) that are being proposed in this bill.......Do you really think, having read (hopefully, but I somehow doubt it) what these people are capable of, even without the law on their side, what they they will do once their disgusting methods are enshrined in law.........mark my words there WILL be deaths

 

If you think handing over your 'luxury' goods will bring matters to an end then your kidding yourself.....they will sell them cheap (usualy to their mates) & then return for the rest

[blacksheep1979]

Whilst a tv may be deemed necessary (although I don't see why) a big plasma screen isn't, neither is a big 32" crt nor is a bmw, a portable tv and a small cheap family runnaround do the job almost as well. If a maximum value for these goods were set at say £100 for the TV and £1-2k for a car that would pretty much keep them in the 'essential' band without trying to make out that a 2 year old lexus/bmw/audi etc are essential.

 

Just because the people are agreeing with you doesn't make them right thinking - most people working in certain areas of German government in 1939-45 agreed with certain 'work camps', did that make them 'right thinking'?

 

Yes I have read some of the bailiff stories, but as always they are one side of the story and do people ever own up 100% to the fact that there was probably something earlier on that they could have done to prevent the matter getting that far - as someone that has tried to instruct bailiffs because of a debt I know how hard it can be to get the court to allow it.

 

The handing over of goods as I said before should be done via a court official who notes the goods and a minimum value that they should achieve rather than as you say leave it up to the bailiffs. Or if the debtor wanted to be proactive - they could sell the goods themselves to attain maximum value and therefore have cash to pay off the debt, something that the value of can't be argued.

[JonCris]

Oh please!

If they haven't got any money how the hell are they going to replace the items that are taken...........I suppose.............having sold the property at a fair price...........with the money the DCA hands back ......yeah right! They can sell the goods themselves (& obtain a fair proce) AGAIN nonsense....when did you last try to sell a second hand telly or car & if they are financed wouldn't they be committing a criminal offence?

[blacksheep1979]

only if the finance is against the item, most of these 0% for 12 months on a tv etc aren't. As to the car I was maybe refering to it 'being bought in happier times' or maybe they just got a loan not secured on the car. And cars do hold there value - thats why there is a second hand car market....

 

And plasma screens etc do go for a fair whack, just look at ebay. As I said these items are not necessities in life and so surely its better to get rid and at least reduce the amount you owe?

[JonCris]

I'm sorry to be candid but what world are you in! ......"cars hold their value".......A new car on leaving the showroom loses 1/3 of it's value.....unless it's a Ferrari or a Zonda which I doubt we are talking about here...........plasma screen go for a fair bit..on ebay..........again how do you know......ever seen the closing bid have we?

[falcon185]

I'm sorry blacksheep,

 

you fail to see the point people are trying to make. I sympathize with your predicament, a court can issue a summons for that person to attend and explain why he/she has not paid as per the court order. Contempt of court springs to mind.

However, Bailiffs are not regulated properly at present and have not been for some considerable time. Some use totally unacceptable means ( not all as I have had dealings with one in particular who was very understanding and helped us immensely) to allow them to force entry into anyones home and assault someone who stands in their way and get away with it legally is outrageous.

 

I hope you never find yourself in a position where due to no fault of your own you end up in debt, when the bailiff calls and breaks into your property, assaults you and takes your portable TV, remember, you condoned it!

[blacksheep1979]

I'm sorry to be candid but what world are you in! ......"cars hold their value".......A new car on leaving the showroom loses 1/3 of it's value.....unless it's a Ferrari or a Zonda which I doubt we are talking about here...........plasma screen go for a fair bit..on ebay..........again how do you know......ever seen the closing bid have we?

 

Yes they hold some value I'm not talking from the second they leave the plot new to the next day but from one month to the next the value changes relatively little. And thank you for you nice sarcastic 'ever seen the closing bid have we?'. Unlike some people I can use search functions WOW look at this

 

http://electronics.search-completed.ebay.co.uk/plasma_42-49_W0QQcatrefZC11QQfclZ3QQfisZ2QQflocZ1QQfromZR32QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQfssZ0QQga10244Z10425QQsaaffZafdefaultQQsacatZ11073QQsacurZ0QQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsasltZ2QQsbrsrtZd

 

I'm sorry that you think that people shouldn't have to pay for what they buy - would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately that would then leave the poor suckers who actually pay footing the bill, whilst everyone else could sit at home and get stuff for free. You see that speaks alot about society today, the way kids are, parents backing them up and giving a mouthful to the cops, alway strying to wriggle their way out of responsibilities - great country its making here isn't it?

[stan5131]

(to stan) And yes I asked if I could claim money back from a company if they failed in their duties to comply with a cca request and if you actually bothered to read that thread it was more for the motivational purpose of getting them to actually respond. You do seem to like taking a few sentances out of context don't you - you don't work in government or the press at all do you?

 

If someone can come up with one good (and I mean good not why can't they or why shouldn't they) reason as to why someone who owes money should be allowed to keep luxuary goods then I will personally collect 100 signatures for the petition.

 

I just know that if I had some goods that weren't 100% needed for my daily life - ie I don't NEED to watch eastenders on a 42" plasma tv then I'd rather give that up and stop harrassing calls/visits from people trying to get money from me.

 

 

No, I dont work in the government or the press!!! I work for the banks! And I have never had a bailiff at my door!

 

Soooooo Blacksheep..... when your debts were passed to the DCA's, how many of your household goods did you sell to avoid your unpaid debts being passed on?

 

Seems to me like you have double standards. You couldnt pay YOUR debts, but condemn and slurr others who cant either. Did you sell your car and your TV? And if so, how come your debts were still passed to DCA?

[PriorityOne]

I'm sorry that you think that people shouldn't have to pay for what they buy - would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunately that would then leave the poor suckers who actually pay footing the bill, whilst everyone else could sit at home and get stuff for free. You see that speaks alot about society today, the way kids are, parents backing them up and giving a mouthful to the cops, alway strying to wriggle their way out of responsibilities - great country its making here isn't it?

 

Blacksheep... perhaps you need to do yourself a favour and stop swallowing the biased garbage in the tabloid press. You seem a very bitter individual... focussing you attention on one sector of society, in order to justify your anger and frustration.

 

I understand that you may have had an issue with someone and been ripped off in the past, but that doesn't mean that every single person who owes money has done it on purpose !!

[JonCris]

blacksheep frankly I don't care what your saying.....your more than happy to advocate the forced entry into someones home & for them to be assaulted...........disgraceful...........If you lost money then I have no sympathy but to say obviously it couldn't have happened to a nicer person.........unlike Falcon I do hope you find yourself in that position then you might not be so keen to see others so mistreated

[tevion]

the argument against giving baliffs extra powers of entry could go on for ever so i will try and keep it short.

there are enough complaints on this and other sites regarding baliffs behavior i.e threats, excessive fees, intimidation, and if the act goes through the number will increase dramaticly.

amongst the victims of this will be the children of the families whos possessions or parents possessions have been taken by baliffs.

try telling a child that a telly is not essential.

if you treat people like animals or back them into a corner, then their reaction is going to be to lash out.

if some one is going to come in your house and take your things then it will incite alot of anger in you.

if some one come in my drum told me he was taking my stuff, i know how i would react and it wouldnt be to sit down and watch it happen.

if baliffs think having powers will make things better it wont.

you can only push people so far and when they feel they have nothing to loose beware baliffs.

police officers get attacked every day nothing makes baliffs exempt from peoples anger.

[JonCris]

the argument against giving baliffs extra powers of entry could go on for ever so i will try and keep it short.

there are enough complaints on this and other sites regarding baliffs behavior i.e threats, excessive fees, intimidation, and if the act goes through the number will increase dramaticly.

amongst the victims of this will be the children of the families whos possessions or parents possessions have been taken by baliffs.

try telling a child that a telly is not essential.

if you treat people like animals or back them into a corner, then their reaction is going to be to lash out.

if some one is going to come in your house and take your things then it will incite alot of anger in you.

if some one come in my drum told me he was taking my stuff, i know how i would react and it wouldnt be to sit down and watch it happen.

if baliffs think having powers will make things better it wont.

you can only push people so far and when they feel they have nothing to loose beware baliffs.

police officers get attacked every day nothing makes baliffs exempt from peoples anger.

 

You forgot to mention that they will be allowed to take family pets....how sick is that!!!!!!

[PriorityOne]

You forgot to mention that they will be allowed to take family pets....how sick is that!!!!!!

 

I wonder which particular barsteward thought that one up.... hope he comes back as a mouse in the next life.....

[blacksheep1979]

 

No, I dont work in the government or the press!!! I work for the banks! And I have never had a bailiff at my door!

 

Soooooo Blacksheep..... when your debts were passed to the DCA's, how many of your household goods did you sell to avoid your unpaid debts being passed on?

 

Seems to me like you have double standards. You couldnt pay YOUR debts, but condemn and slurr others who cant either. Did you sell your car and your TV? And if so, how come your debts were still passed to DCA?

 

Wow and yet again you take things out of context - I paid the debts, very promptly. The only reason that I have ever had to deal with a dca - and there was only one instance was because I moved, was foolish enough to not forward my mail and had problems with getting my mail from my ex-landlord, missed a few payments and finally when I did set up a mail redirect with the PO I got the letters and PAID.

 

 

 

Blacksheep... perhaps you need to do yourself a favour and stop swallowing the biased garbage in the tabloid press. You seem a very bitter individual... focussing you attention on one sector of society, in order to justify your anger and frustration.

 

I understand that you may have had an issue with someone and been ripped off in the past, but that doesn't mean that every single person who owes money has done it on purpose !!

 

Erm I don't read tabloid newspaprts and am not in the least bit angry. I don't believe that people try to owe money, I am just saying that if it is within their means to reduce the debt then it should be their obligation to do so.

 

blacksheep frankly I don't care what your saying.....your more than happy to advocate the forced entry into someones home & for them to be assaulted...........disgr aceful...........If you lost money then I have no sympathy but to say obviously it couldn't have happened to a nicer person.........unlike Falcon I do hope you find yourself in that position then you might not be so keen to see others so mistreated

 

I would never advocate assault (please read earlier posts regarding this). And yet again shows the extent of your ability to reason, you can't write sentances properly and have to resort to personal slights and wishing people that disagree with you misfortune - wow indeed you are the one with the upper hand and are so much the better person.

 

All in all I am still awaiting a decent argument of why this (if properly regulated) shouldn't happen. The offer of the signatures is still open and I genuinely mean this, if someone can come up with any decent reason - that is a reason other than wishing me bad luck/misfortune.

[stan5131]

Can't write sentences properly?????? At least he can spell it!

[stan5131]

You moved and had problems with your mail.... YEAH RIGHT!!!!

 

Jeez, you really do take the biscuit!!! In other words you moved and hoped to leave the debt behind. AND you have the audacity to imply that others WONT pay their debts. No wonder you are in favour of this bill. It is exactly fitting for the likes of yourself. Unfortunately, many others who are genuinely unable to pay their debts, will suffer also.