Lowell/Overdales - letter before claim - old utils debt

[gwebstech]

Hi all

 

My Dad had rented a property out for years, we think that this letter refers to a couple of months in between a tenant leaving and a new one arriving.

They are claiming that my Dad took out a contract with them in 2018 (after a tenant left). He NEVER did because he never would, he definitely did not give any authorisation or agreement to let them ever supply to that property, as far as hes concerned he doesnt owe them a penny legally for this debt which we presume are for standing charges. Tenants always had to pay their own utilities.

So is this LBC just another threat or does he need to now send a letter off of some sort? is it post 4 from the PAP page?

How can they claim he owes them money when hes never agreed to any contract with them? surely that cant be legal, that they can chase him for a couple hundred pounds in standing charges?

 

thanks

[BankFodder]

Please post up the letter here .

Get your father to send them a subject Access request immediately.

It should be emailed to them or in the post tomorrow.

Better still if he delivers it to them by hand so that they have no problem with the identification step

 

[gwebstech]

Ill get it and post it, and ill send the SAR asap

thanks a lot

[dx100uk]

its not from a landlord its from lowells.

the supplier has sold the debt to lowell, overdales are their in house sols.

go look at his credit file.

 

the sar should goto the supplier not lowell/overdales.

run the 30 days!!

[gwebstech]

thanks DX, just to clarify my Dad is the landlord and yes it was Lowells who were sending him these letters previously.

 

Ill make sure the SAR goes to the energy company

 

cheers

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

 

dx

 

[gwebstech]

Hi

SAR sent to eon as they took over npower, not applied for credit file yet as dad doesnt care if they have marked his file

I enclose the latest letter from overdales and a letter from August 19 which is the first letter he had informing him that he was being placed on a "statutory deemed contract" - i cant belive they are even legal! That letter is important as i understand they cannot charge you without FIRST informing you of the deemed contract. You can see from the letter the charges are from BEFORE that letter was sent.

Dad never throws a letter away so if they had sent one, he would have it and he cant see one. They are claiming he is liable from Sept 18 which is when a tenant left.

thanks

 

dads overdale letters.pdf

Edited August 1, 2023 by gwebstech

[BankFodder]

You are suggesting that you have uploaded more than one letter – one of them being a letter informing him that he was being placed on a statutory deemed contract.
It's not there – where is it please?

[gwebstech]

i tried to add a PDF but obv you cant see it, one sec

[BankFodder]

There is a PDF but it only contains one page and not the one you are referring to

[gwebstech]

i think this is right, sorry about that, still getting used to this laptop

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please can you put these documents up in PDF format in the way that you would like to receive them if you are helping somebody free of charge.

That means, properly scanned, in the right order, the right way round – everything that if we were charging you £300 an hour you would be pretty quick to do in order to save yourself some money.

[gwebstech]

Sorry, i thought they were the right way up, my laptop seems to keep turning one sideways for some strange reason and  i couldnt get it to work at all with the size of adding 3 images at once, apologies for that. I havent got a scanner so i had to take photos on my phone.

I have just double checked and they are now in the right order and all the right way up. First 2 pages are from Overdales and the third page is as dated from Aug 19 where they first say this is a deemed contract.

Your help is very much appreciated

 

thank you

dads overdale stuff.pdf

[BankFodder]

You can buy yourself a good scanner for about 60 or £70 and you have it for years. You will be able to use it for this case and loads of other purposes throughout the life of the scanner. That will help you to provide good quality scans which are easily legible and easily convertible into text.

I don't think you have told us anywhere how much they are asking you to pay. You seem to have chosen to redact this important information from the document that you have scanned up.

Also, although it be difficult – it would be interesting if you could calculate the difference between what might be owed under a deemed contract and what might be owed under an ordinary agreed contract

14319-deemed-contracts (1).pdf

[gwebstech]

Hi

The amount owed is around £240, i redacted it as i thought i had to hide all the figures so they couldnt identify anything on here. I agree, i will look for a printer with a scanner on it

I would work the cost difference out, but id need to obtain the 2018/19 prices to do that so ill look if hes got a bill with those usage figures on and try and compare them to a normal tariff. On reading the PDF you attached, npower clearly failed at 2.4 as they never provided even the principal terms of the contract but even so, surely they cant charge you before they tell you youve "entered"  a deemed contract

thanks

[BankFodder]

No you don't need to enter a deemed contract. If you look at it all – and also if you understand the principle which is not unreasonable, if you take over a property then you take over the existing supply and there is a deemed contract.

You can't use the energy that is applied to the house and then try to say well didn't actually enter into a contract so I don't have to pay anything.

But you are right, if you look at the rules in the document referred to, it is fairly clear about information which has to be supplied. The question is whether that information was supplied. They will say yes. Your father will have no record because maybe he received it and tore it up and can't remember.

Have you had the SAR disclosure yet

[dx100uk]

lowells wont follow through on a £240 util bill debt even if they do do court.

its done to frighten mugs into wetting themselves.

we need that credit file, its important to know if this shows against him for numerous reasons 

its all free so just use his details and get it please

dx

 

[gwebstech]

Thannks guys 

 -bankfodder im not trying to be pedantic but my Dad hasnt taken over the supply, as far as hes concerned he gave npower a final reading after a tenant left and he hasnt used any energy, only the standing charges could be attributed to him. I agree with you that if youre using energy you have entered into a contract. He never throws anything away, hes got letters from 10 years ago all over the house. He must have 30 letters about this hes saved.

not had any reply to the SAR stuff yet, as you say, it should be in there if they informed him.

-dx ill get him to do it tomorrow when i see him. Im trying not to let him get too wound up, he can afford it but its the principle and i agree with him, hes had a heart issue before and this stuff winds him right up and he said he'll go to court to give them what for if he has to.

I just saw a bill from them, and its based on estimates and thats still the same amount theyre chasing him for! How can you chase people for estimates?

I appreciate the help

[dx100uk]

unless he turns off the power totally between tenants, there will be consumption, any landlord is responsible for use/charges between tenant contracts to the supplier. just ask any landlord.!!

now why after almost running the statute barred to the end lowell want paying as they bought the debt years ago can only be answered by being greedy upon max potential court interest .

the overriding remit here is the back billing rules util suppliers must abide by. you cant bill someone for energy use if you've not sent them a bill with 12mts of the debt occurring.

so unless the supplier sent him a bill within 12mts of this debt being created and lowell can prove they did, they are up the creek with no paddle. 

hence another reason why they'll not go near court.

it might be one of the rare times we advise to put just this reason in as to why on your reply to the letter of claim, but run the 30days..

 

dx

 

 

[gwebstech]

ok so we should reply to them and only use what you mentioned? nothing else or should we wait for the SAR stuff first?

[dx100uk]

run the PAPLOC reply till near the 30 days limit lets see.

but the SAR, if your father hoards all letters, shouldn't have any bills within the correct time of issue in it, else he should have them .....

 

[gwebstech]

Just to update, Npower are basically refusing to supply any SAR data saying they dont have any and or cant access it which is obviously rubbish, im just going to get the password they sent to Dads to read the SAR stuff that Lowells have

 

ill let you know whats there if relevant

[dx100uk]

you do know you can take npower to court if they refuse to honour an sar for data they must hold encompassing the last 6yrs without good reason. no holding it it NOT an excuse if its within that timeframe. 

also under the prevention of fraud act, the money laundering act and the data protection laws, they must retain all data for 6yrs.

[gwebstech]

Thanks, they seem to be lying to me or just incompetent. I gave them a reference number, they said can you provide us with a copy of that letter and i refused. I said you have the reference there to look up and they then said they couldnt help any further?!

Im getting the password Lowells sent tomorrow so i can look through what they sent

[gwebstech]

Lowells have sent the SAR stuff and all thats in it is the original bill dated from Sept 19. Ive previously asked Overdales to provide the terms and conditions for the assumed contract and the other stuff listed in 2.4 of the document Bankfodder listed as they are nowhere to be seen

If they havent provided them, i cant see they can do anything as they were never provided to begin with. I have a friend who worked at Npower on commercial debt and he said as far as he knew, they never chase anything under £600 for domestic.

ive attached images of the bill from 2019 - i cant download it as a document as the PDF they sent wont let me

 

EDIT: overdales have just replied to my request for further information and state that they have sent the original bill again but no mention of the info requested under 2.4 that i mentioned above so they obviously know they havent sent it so they havent got a leg to stand on.

 

thanksnpower PDF.pdf

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by gwebstech