G24/Trace/BW ANPR PCN appeal refused - now Letter of Claim - Costa Coffee Car Park Perivale, West London, off the A40

[Hamz909]

Parking area: Costa Coffee Car Park Perivale, West London, off the A40

 

The alleged infringement took place in February 2022 but I was NOT notified of the parking infringement till August 2022 when the matter went to a debt collection agency, thus I was not given the opportunity to dispute the fine with the original Parking agency.

Circumstances of the incident: I was transporting 2 elderly gentlemen. Both are frail. One is registered disabled, the other is frail with multiple medical conditions including prostate cancer, blood clots in his leg, head attack and open-heart surgery. The delay was because one of these gentlemen (Mr X) needed my assistance while using the bathroom due to his prostate/ bladder problems- I was involved in his personal care while he was using the bathroom which resulted in me getting back the car 11 minutes late. I overstayed in a car park by 11 minutes above the maximum of 90 minutes.

I was not notified by the company that operates the car park (G24) at all and had no idea of the parking infringement.

I first found out about the fine when I was contacted by a company called TRACE which is a debt collection agency. The original fine was £100, but after the case was passed to TRACE it had risen to £160.

I wrote back to TRACE requesting details of the alleged infringement together with evidence and they sent me a copy of the parking ticket issued by G24 which I received in the first week of September 2022.

I wrote to G24 in September and informed them that I did not receive their original ticket and also explained my circumstances.  They said "as your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a response". I have not made an appeal to them because I didn't know I had been issued a parking fine.  They said that I either pay or deal with the debt collection agency. I attempted to lodge an appeal with The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) but my ticket number was not recognised. I also attempted an appeal via the Parking on Private Land Appeal service (POPLA www.popla.co.uk) but they wanted a reference number from G24. I emailed G24 but the email is a "no reply" email so I did not receive a response regarding both these appeals.

I wrote back to TRACE and provided them with an explanation of my circumstances as well as evidence (I supplied Mr Y's disabled badge as well as a medical report for Mr X), but my case was then passed from TRACE to BW Legal (another debt collecting agency).

I have been in contact with BW Legal several times and again I passed them the evidence to support my explanation. They seemed dissatisfied with my evidence and demanded further proof for it, but this is not possible given the circumstance- I was helping a very frail elederly gentleman with his personal care. They have now issued me with a "letter of claim" demanding that I either agree to own the debt, agree to some of the debt, don't know whether I own the debt, or dispute the debt.

I'm not sure where to go with this, how I should answer the "letter of claim" which states "if a payment OR A RESPONSE is not received from you by 13 January 2023 we are instructed to issue a County Court claim without further reference to you", however they have given a very narrow margin of reasons for disputing the claim, such as "I don't owe the debt" or "legal problems with the credit agreement". 

 

The debt agency has given me a letter with the estimated costs of taking me to court:
principal= £160,
Interest= £10.50,
Court fees = £35,
Solicitor fee = £50,
total £255.50

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. It seems very unfair and unreasonable.

[FTMDave]

Thanks for your detailed explanation.

 

Firstly, it's not a fine, a private company doesn't have the power to fine you, what you have received is a simple invoice.

 

The good news is that there is a 10-minute minimum grace period to exit a site, in both the government's Code of Practice and in both trade associations' Codes of Practice.  Clearly an extra minute is fine for assisting elderly, frail people.  Indeed, equality laws would back you up.  So far so good.  You are clearly legally in the right.

 

As this is the first time this has happened to you, it's completely normal that you wrote to G24, Trace, BW Legal, etc. and expected them to see sense.

 

We on the forum however have seen this hundreds of times before.  You are dealing with spivs, charlatans and fleecers who are only after £££££.  They will never see sense.

 

What you need to do now it to stop being polite, you need to reply to the conmerchants, ridicule their claim, show you've sussed them as the fleecers thy are, and make it clear that if they took you to court they would only end up with a huge hole in their wallet.  We call this the "snotty letter" strategy.  If you do a search for "snotty letter" on the site, you'll soon get the idea.

[FTMDave]

Also - belt & braces - get onto the CEO of Costa Coffee  https://ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-10314&c=Costa Coffee-CEO  explain what happened, and demand they call their dogs off.

 

If you're sure this is a Costa car park, rather than a retail park including Costa, i would think they would intervene immediately.  In any case, nothing ventured ...

 

[dx100uk]

you need to reply to BW with a snotty letter.

however.

 

we need you to fill this out first:

 

and scan up all letter or comms to everyone in/out (bother sides of all letters) to one mass PDF after CAREFULLY reading our upload guide.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post up the PCN so we can see if they have complied with the law.

 

You will need to remove your personal details such as your name and address as well as the car registration number.

 

Please do not remove dates and times.

 

As the PCN was not received by you is the address where you are currently living or a new address 

 

The quicker you reply to our questions the quicker we can show you how to avoid paying the PCN.

 

Time is important now as you may have to go to Court if we cannot beat them down before then 

[Hamz909]

The car Park is for use by Costa Coffee and KFC customers- these are the only two shops there. 

 

It seems that he CEO link does not work, as it happens,

 

I was taking these two elderly gentlemen to meet up in Costa for the first time after covid - as a way to socialise and improve their mental health!> 

Edited December 21, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[lookinforinfo]

.The CEO address I have is

shakir.moin@costacoffee.com

 

Let him know that you took two others with you to visit his business.

 

We still need the questions asked for above to be answered.....................................

[Hamz909]

I will answer the questions on the link regarding "You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do" but as yet I have NOT received a court claim, just a letter threatening court action. Is that the same thing? 

 

I have been asked to answer the following questions as per the link: https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/357877-you-have-received-a-court-claim-issued-in-england-wales-what-you-need-to-do/

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Nicky Boy]

Nope,

 

You're looking at the wrong sticky.

 

DX said to use this one...

 

 

 

Could you also please scan up the "letter of claim", just so it can be verified.

 

The fleecers often deliberately  use languge that can easily be misconstrued!

[FTMDave]

Their case against you is extremely weak.

 

But that doesn't really matter.  The fleecers regularly start absolutely hopeless court cases because they think the motorist may give in.  They are particularly interested in -

 

1.  motorists who don't reply to a Letter of Claim.  They might not reply to a claim form either.  So a nice easy default win for the charlatans.

 

2.  people who appeal, indulge in lengthy correspondence and in general are polite and accept the spivs' systems as official and to be respected.  That's you.

 

As others have said, we needs to see the original PCN and LoC, and we need the sticky filled in.  The clock is ticking towards court.

 

 

[Hamz909]

1 Date of the infringement 16/02/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] I did not receive any notification till I was contacted by TRACE the debt collection agency in August 2022. I asked for the original PCN to be sent to me. 

 

3 Date received 06/09/2022

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] I missed the 28 deadline for the appeal because I didn't receive the PCN on time, so I did not use the official appeal process.

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes, I have attached their email reply below. they say that "my appeal was rejected, but I didn't go through the proper appeals process as I didnt receive the PCN in time. 

 

7 Who is the parking company? G24

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Alperton Lane, Off Western Avenue, Greenford, UB6 8AA.

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IAS - I tried to appeal via the AIS website but my ticket number was not recognised by the system. 

 

 

 

From: <noreply@g24.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022, 3:00 am
Subject: RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXX

Dear Mr XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

RE: Contractual Parking Charge Notice XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your email.

The first Contractual Parking Charge Notice was issued on 16.02.22 and set to the address provided by the DVLA.

Please direct all further correspondense to the debt company.

As your appeal has been rejected, any further correspondence may not receive a  response, the options below are still open to you.

Unfortunatley your period of appeal has expired as explained on the back of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice.

You now have one of the following options available to you:

1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. We may engage with the IAS Non-Standard Appeals Service at our discretion should a dispute arise over this charge in the future.

Appeals Team
G24 Ltd

 

 

PCN anon.pdf letter of claim.pdf BWLegal reply form.pdf

[dx100uk]

was your car at the time registered to another address?

we need to see your appeals too please? and their replies.

one mass multipage PDF is ok.

 

you need to reply with a snotty letter by but close too 30days from 8th dec.

 

 

 

[Hamz909]

I will upload all the letters/ correspondence from TRACE/ BW Legal in one chain PDF document this evening. 

Thanks for your help.

Edited December 21, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[FTMDave]

Thanks.  Will get back to you after work this evening.

[FTMDave]

Thanks for all the information.

 

So it's a proper Letter of Claim so dx is right, in January you need to reply ridiculing their claim and showing you would be big trouble for them if they were daft enough to do court.  They generally give up at this point and go and find someone else to hassle who might be scared and give in.

 

They really haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

What is strange is that you didn't receive any of the original correspondence.  Is it possible you moved and didn't update the vehicle log book?

[Hamz909]

I have been at the same address since 2013! 

Edited December 21, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

just type 

no need to keep hitting quote .

 

makes the thread twice as long and difficult to find the start of your reply on a small screened device

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

A little light has just come on in my brain that we have a huge number of G24 cases regarding a particularly bad scam they have going on in a car park in Stoke.  Despite all their bluster and threats, they've taken no-one to court.

[Hamz909]

I have collated to documents in 2 parts. 

Part 1

parking fine documents part 1 of 2.pdf

 

This is part 2

 

Got another email from BW legal today threatening legal action etc-- (I have included it). I

I must say I'm finding all this very draining. 

parking fine documents part 2 of 2.pdf

[dx100uk]

Where does anything say it is FINE??

 

 

[Hamz909]

sorry, I named the file wrong, its a parking charge

if you want I can re-upload it with a different name

[Hamz909]

Part 1

documents part 1 of 2.pdf

part 2

documents part 2 of 2.pdf

[Hamz909]

I cant delete my post that says "fine"

[FTMDave]

Thanks for all this.  Now to read through it all.

 

10 minutes ago, Hamz909 said:

I must say I'm finding all this very draining.

Don't worry.

 

Their case is ridiculous.

 

You are legally in the right.

 

They won't take you to court.  A snotty letter in January will see them crawl back under their stone.

 

Even if by some horror you became one of the very, very few people they take to court - you would win.

[Hamz909]

how do I write this letter? any advice?