Alliance 2*PCNs - PAPLOC - Wrong reg - Daymer Bay, Rock, Nr Wadebridge, Cornwall

[dx100uk]

good so wrong reg errors on both.

 

should be easy to deal with eventually.

 

2X snotty letter time NOT in the same envelope mind..

[FTMDave]

It's strange that they haven't combined the two tickets in one LoC. 

 

Alliance Parking seem to be just a small company and it could be they haven't twigged they have two invoices on the go for you.

 

Anyway, as dx says, keep the letters separate as they are more likely to do court if they know there are two tickets with more dosh.  Do two different versions of the letter, send one 1st class and one 2nd class, send on different dates, write in different fonts, start one "Dear Alliance Parking" and the other "Dear Kev", one with your superb PS and one without, etc.

 

(Kev being the spiv who runs the company  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09766749/officers  )

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[Edsr]

OK so just had this through... what's next?

Alliance Parking.pdf

[honeybee13]

Did you send a snotty letter/s and if so, who to please?

 

HB

[Edsr]

Yep - See post on Jan 26th - was something along these lines...

 

[dx100uk]

do nothing

but carefully note they might try a backdoor ccj if you move>

 

dx

 

[Edsr]

Thanks Both. So should be OK as long as I tell the DVLA if I move? 

[FTMDave]

No, not at all.

 

The fleecers are perfectly at liberty to issue a claim against you at your current address.

 

If you move, update your licence and the vehicle log book and inform the fleecers.

 

 

[dx100uk]

And any debts on your credit file 

 

Dx

[lookinforinfo]

You don't need to worry as the PCN dated 1/8/22 is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

First.

The maximum charge is the one quoted on the signage so they cannot just add another £70 just because their Code of Practice states that they can. The Law states otherwise. Alliance is not entitled to a further £70.  Schedule 4 section4 [5]  "(5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified)."

 

Second..

In the Appeals Procedure  in Note 3 the driver is currently responsible for the parking charge [which is true but the PCN is addressed to the Keeper ] so they are saying  they cannot process any appeals from 3rd parties including the keeper. The PCN does not comply with the Act as it is asking for the driver to reveal themself as the driver when the Act does not demand such a result. At no place in the Act does it state that the driver has to reveal that they were the driver or that only the driver can appeal on the NTK so the PCN is not written in a lawful manner.

 

Third. 

The charge on the PCN is for  being in the car park being "present without payment having been made"... they have been informed that payment was made so the PCN should have been cancelled since there is no mention on the PCN that vrm numbers are required.

 

Fourth.

There is no Period of Parking mentioned as demanded in Schedule 4 S9 [2] "

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;"

 

It does state  the time of arrival and departure but that is at the entrance and exit to the car park. the car is not parked at the entrance it has to driven to a parking spot manoeuvred into that spot without being over the marked lines.

 

Then the driver has to read the signs and if the T&Cs  are agreed by the driver, the parking period starts then unless for instance children or disabled persons are disembarked. And not until the shopping has been completed, the car loaded up including perhaps children in their seat belts, the trolley returned to its stand and the driver starts the engine and pulls out of the parking space does the parking period end.

 

Fifth. Where the warning notice is displayed the wording has to comply with the Act Schedule 4 S9[2][f] 

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

the words in parentheses is not included in the PCN. so it does not comply.

 

As the PCN is not compliant, only the driver is liable for the charge so the charge cannot be transferred to the keeper. so it is important not to reveal who the driver was and you as keeper are not liable for the PCN.

 

I don't think I have seen the second PCN but if it is worded the same as the one on the 1st August the same restrictions apply.

[Edsr]

Hi All,

Here's a link to the saga so far... (which, towards the end of the thread, links back to the original post, so this is now my third post on the same claim from AP)

A summary... 2 x tickets for 'incorrect reg' even though I have evidence of payment for each one. I have explained to AP that they have been paid, but they replied saying I contravened blah blah.

I got as far as sending 2 x snotty letters back in Feb.

Today I had the pleasure of receiving two separate LOCs... (both identical but with different dates/locations).

Not sure what to do next?!

 

LOC PDF.pdf

[FTMDave]

They may be sending the letter again in the hope you've moved and they can get a backdoor CCJ  - or they may just be stupid.  Probably the latter.

In any case you need to "snotty letter" them again.  How about -

Dear Kev,

Re: PCN no.XXXXX

cheers for yet another Letter of Claim.  It's always nice to hear from you!

How many of these are you going to send me?  You've already been told.  I'm not paying.

If you feel confident enough to convince a judge I owe you something even though you were paid and suffered no loss and the whole thing is legally "de minimis" and you were contacted within 24 hours of the parking event before a PCN was issued and given the right registration number and you're just wasting the court's time - then go for it!

I will enjoy giving you a hell of a thrashing and spending the dosh from an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) on a nice holiday while laughing at your expense.

I look forward to your deafening silence.

Yours, XXX

Do what you did last time.  To differentiate the replies send one with "Dear Kev" and one with "Dear Alliance Parking", send one off tomorrow and one in ten days or so, one with your brilliant PS and one not.  Etc.  Get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

[FTMDave]

Threads merged.  Please keep everything on one thread.

[Edsr]

Thanks Dave, I tried to update the previous thread but it said 'thread closed' am I doing something wrong?

Do you think this is going to continue where they just keep sending me a letter every few months in the hope that I move house or miss one so they can CCJ me? If so is there some way I can draw it to a close and force them to show their hand? 

I will do as suggested, and thanks again for the help - really appreciate it. Interested in your view on the above though.

Cheers,

Ed

[dx100uk]

they have 6yrs from event date

[Nicky Boy]

And we've seen the fleecers run all 6 years before actually issuing a claim...

[FTMDave]

On 17/07/2023 at 22:57, Edsr said:

Thanks Dave, I tried to update the previous thread but it said 'thread closed' am I doing something wrong

No, you're doing nothing wrong.

It's because after a certain period of inactivity threads get automatically closed.

Generally OPs report the last post and ask the Site Team to reopen - and we do

As the others have said, the court system allows six years in which to bring a claim so you might have to put up with more of the fleecers' begging letters yet.

[Edsr]

Thanks Dave, I have sent the snotty letter no2's now. Presumably I can just change the date for each of the two letter templates I have now set up, and keep replying with the same identical letters? 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Edsr

[FTMDave]

Yes.

Although hopefully they will give up now.