Again COPART!

[crokko]

Good Evening,

 

I am another victim of COPART. Bought a JEEP Grand Cherokee for 16800 ~with fees. 67 plate "used unrecorded" "described as run and drive"

 

Before auction call to auction to ask why vehicle has no category. Being informed that sometimes customers delivering vehicles and then it has no category.

Plenty information for auction

1) HPI CHECK clear

2) NMR CHECK clear

3) National mileage VOSA/MOT clear

4) Mileage consistent 

5) V5C document comes with vehicle

6) Next owner will be 2nd 

7) Vehicle valued for around 28,000

8 Run and drive

 

Vehicle collected from copart after purchase Monday 06.12.2021. No v5c as promised in description. They've told over phone it will come within 3 days as they cannot find

Vehicle delivered and problem with driving after pressing gas (first diagnose turbocharger actuator broken). Taken part next day to order a actuator and "broken" actuator had production year 2010. 

 

Done HPI CHECK (as could see full VIN number as before was partially hidden) - it has show mileage depreciation three times. So all those separate points they've advertised are false, V5C did not arrived. 

 

Made complain in COPART, they have open a ticket and not responded for long time. Chased them over phone/emails for about 2 weeks.

 

In meantime

Ordered part arrived but did not help (only check engine disappeared)  and visual inspection after opening hood showed plenty of signs engine definitely is not from 2017 year.

 

What found in undercarriage

massive corrosion,

removed cat converter,

plenty of sensors missing,

pipe and other parts complete scrap one big rust,

engine block looks like would have done 1,000,000 miles or more.

oil sump has production year also 2010.

VIN number on engine is rusted and not visible.

 

Overall vehicle has moss around

wheels,

on door windows (also doors are from 2015 on side and 2016 other side) engine frame has dents from engine crane (engine on 100% was replaced)

Other report showed that the vehicle in November was involved in accident in POLAND/Europe 

 

Copart has replied with standard answer point 8.2 - you buy what you see... (like to everyone)

 

I do not have objection if they would advertise altered mileage, but they give few times wrong information, still it is small thing as the whole case look worse as described

In my opinion

a) vehicle stood in water/flood

b) vehicle VIN was altered and I bought cloned vehicle from 2010? with with newer reg plate 

 

I read other theard and went for advise to call bank and get money back and bank paid back already and sent a letter that they will make investigation and come back within 8 weeks and get money back from merchant (try to at least...) .

But not sure what to do now.

 

I don't want to keep that vehicle (now I keep the vehicle and money borrowed from bank) 

 

also last week (after 20 days) v5c arrived.

Details of sellers were hidden but found the person.

Lives in Northern Ireland and in terms of v5c she's 2nd owner 

 

All advises more than welcomed 

Edited December 30, 2021 by dx100uk
Format

[BankFodder]

Please can you upload files in single file multi page format. Also name them so that contents are described.

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand the position of copart and all of this. Of course they will say that they are the owners the vehicle and they are simply selling on behalf of someone – but presumably it is they who put the description together – is that correct?

How did you pay? Did you pay by cash? Did you pay by bank transfer?

[crokko]

Thank you for super fast reply, you are making really good job!

 

Yes I paid by DEBIT card. Description made by COPART member.

Jeep photos and auction listing.pdf

[ashmk]

They sell salvaged cars at auction. Did you go to view the car before you placed a bid?

[crokko]

You are not able to go for last 15 months + as "safety covid19"
It's their game as for so long time we do not have lockdowns and any restrictions and every viewing were in open air before.

 

Over phone they've told they offer some extra photos but vehicle had about 10 photos (good quality) (and even if would have 20) you are not able to see  parts from bottom that are removed/stolen and turbocharger/engine was replaced even gearbox has some signs of use (black silicone in some sides)

 

If I could see vehicle in real, with closed eyes would not buy it 

[BankFodder]

You have to explain a little bit more to me.

Who is it who puts together the description of the vehicle? Does Copart simply take the vehicle owners description at face value and repeat on the auction site or do they carry out any of their own inspections or assessments?

[crokko]

Hi 

 

It's look like the do not make any inspection and rely on seller's word as they describe their self as seller's authorized agent, some important points of their contract with each seller, full points in link below

 

Quote

 

2.1 The Seller appoints Copart as its sole agent to provide the Services within mainland Great Britain and Northern Ireland in accordance with the provisions of this Contract and Copart accepts the appointment on those terms

 

2.5 You may be required to purchase the vehicle back from the Buyer and pay all fees.

 

3.3 Copart reserves the right to refuse to offer for sale any vehicle in its absolute discretion. Copart also reserves the right to cancel any concluded contract of sale for any reason whatsoever, including without limitation, any misrepresentation made by the Seller in respect of the vehicle or the Seller omitting to disclose any relevant information to Copart in respect of the history or condition of the vehicle.

 

3.5 In providing the Services Copart will rely upon any instructions and information provided by the Seller when it consigns each vehicle to Copart using Copart’s secure online portal known as the ‘Seller Site’.

 

 

6. SELLER’S WARRANTIES & INDEMNITY

6.1 In respect of each vehicle consigned to Copart under this Contract, and in addition to the warranties set out in the Seller's Declaration, the Seller warrants to Copart that it:

has a good title;

shall provide Copart only with complete and accurate instructions and information (including where applicable and without limitation valid V5 and MOT certificates); and

that no vehicle identification numbers or other identification marks have been tampered with, replaced, altered or otherwise interfered with in respect of the vehicle.

6.2 The Seller shall at all times throughout the lifetime of this Contract and for 6 years thereafter indemnify Copart and keep Copart fully indemnified against all direct, indirect or reasonably foreseeable costs, claims, demands, expenses, proceedings and any losses suffered by Copart as a result of the breach of the warranties set out in this Contract.

 

7.2 Nothing in this Contract excludes the liability of either party to the other party for (a) death or personal injury caused by the first party’s negligence, (b) the first party’s fraud or fraudulent misrepresentation, or (c) breach of the terms implied by section 2 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (title and quiet possession).

7.3 Subject to clause 7.2:

Copart shall under no circumstances whatsoever be liable to the Seller, whether in contract, tort (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, for: any damage to the Seller’s vehicle other than that caused directly and solely as a result of Copart’s proven negligence; any pure economic loss; loss of profit; any indirect or consequential loss; any professional fees, charges or fines or penalties arising under or in connection with the Contract; and

Copart's total liability to the Seller in respect of all other losses arising under or in connection with the Contract, whether in contract, tort (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, shall in no circumstances exceed £5,000 for each claim or series of connected claims.

 

 

 

https://www.copart.co.uk/Content/UK/EN/Landing-Page/tfc-seller-agreement-terms-and-conditions

[BankFodder]

Who is the seller?

[crokko]

Seller so the person who bring the vehicle to them

[BankFodder]

Amazing! I would never have guessed that the seller was the person who brings the vehicle to them to be sold!

But who is the seller?

[crokko]

Seller is private person that lives in northern Ireland

[BankFodder]

Do you know their identity? And their contact details?

[crokko]

Copart sent v5c after 3 weeks. There is black marks to hidden all details as this is their policy to keep names confidential. But managed to read name/surname/postcode and address from logbook so believe she was an owner of the vehicle and bring/sell thru COPART

 

[BankFodder]

Thanks.
I suppose it's going to come as no surprise to you that you are in a very difficult position.

It may sound like rubbing in – but this is for the benefit of others who come here, the circumstances in which you bought this vehicle, the money paid, the fact that it didn't have category et cetera you are asking for trouble – and you got it.

Buying anything through Copart is dangerous because you have no idea of the provenance and of course Copart act as a buffer between you, the purchaser and the seller – and it's only by luck that you've managed to find out the identity of the seller.

It's an incredible way to buy things that you don't even know the identity of the person who is selling something to say that if there is any need for redress, you don't know where to go.

I'm not familiar with all of Copart's terms and conditions it seems to me that you could either proceed against the owner of the vehicle in Northern Ireland or else against Copart for misrepresentation.
If you proceed against Copart then you can be certain that they will spend whatever it takes to crush you – although I do notice in some of the terms and conditions that they make it clear to the seller of the vehicle that they may attempt to recover money from them.

Not the least of your problems here is that you have paid £16,800, I understand – and this takes you well over the small claims limit at which means that if you lose you will have to pay the other side's costs and if that happens to be Copart and they decide to throw a lot of money at the problem, you could be in for a very bad slap in the face as well as having lost the money for the car.

You can certainly try going to your bank and trying a chargeback process – but at this level of value, your bank certainly won't be happy that that would be my first stop.

Have you contacted Copart about this? Have you demonstrated to them how badly misrepresented the vehicle is and that if they are not responsible for the claims for it then it must be the seller who has badly misled them.

Of course if Copart cares about their integrity they would return the money to you without question and proceed against the seller in Northern Ireland but I am rather concerned that they may decide that you are the weakest link and that they would rather just stand up to you and let you take your chances.

£16,800 is a huge amount of money to spend in this way.
 

[labrat]

It may also be that the last owners are not the actual seller

 

Copart buy vehicles via several websites (sellthecar.co.uk etc) once they sell the car to copart via them its no longer theirs and copart auctions it on

 

Personal experience of that

 

So you might not be able to blame the person on the v5

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Yes, I agree. And anyway, by a car that a distance so, in Northern Ireland and then shipping it over so that is sold by Copart is I suppose, the vehicle equivalent of money laundering.

Vehicle laundering – and I think that's what you have

[crokko]

So any further action as advice now?

 

Copied sellers terms and suggested to get back car to seller and give me refund

 

Copart probably will win legal court cases as definitely has better lawyer that random I could find

[dx100uk]

you dont need a solicitor

and even they can't beat your consumer rights in a court.

 

if you need a copy of the org V5C send DVLA a V62