140MPH on Motorway

[StupidSpeed]

My son (19) has been caught by camera van @ 140 MPH on a motorway. He is a relatively new driver holding his license for only 12 months, he is insured etc. We received the NIP from the Police and are now waiting for prosecution. I'm not even going to try to defend such a speed which is impossible, I can only put this down to being young. 

 

Is there any guidance anyone can provide on what the court will do in this situation?

[BankFodder]

Was this in a car or a bike?

Anyway, I'm sure it's an automatic ban that others will come along with some more detailed views I expect.
Of course one additional benefit of losing his licence for a year or two is that he is more likely to stay alive during that period of disqualification.

He should also understand that they hand out prison sentences for breaching disqualification orders – even if they are simply suspended sentences.

He is going to have to look forward to very much more expensive insurance premiums in the future. I hope he was paying this himself and wasn't being subsidised by you – because that will add to the lesson. Is he going to pay the fine himself?

The best thing he can do for himself is get washed, dress smart, go to court and put his hands up and don't make the slightest excuse but admit that what he did was dangerous and to tell the court that he agrees that he deserves everything that they are going to hand out to him.

And then just shut-up.

Thanks for coming to us about this and I'm sorry that it happened. I expect that you are even more sorry than we are.

 

Please do keep us updated. 

[unclebulgaria67]

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/outlines/speeding/

 

Maximum fine and lose licence I would think.

 

 

[StupidSpeed]

Thanks for the replies, as a parent this is not much fun to go through. We have given the guidance don't speed, and if you do keep under 90MPH.

 

I was shocked by the speed on the NIP form. I do know he would not have been the only car doing this speed at that time. I can confirm he was driving a car. 

 

I agree that the ban will in some ways help him, further to this he is still alive and nobody obviously has been hurt. 

[dx100uk]

not a lot he can do sadly esp as <12mts new licence holder?

 

 

Speed Enforcement Guidance.pdf

[BazzaS]

Does he admit he was the driver, and agree that he was doing that speed (or close?).

Was the NIP combined with a S.172 request to identify the driver, and if so, has he returnrd the form identifying the driver?. This would still need to be done (if he doesn't they may run out of time to prosecute for the speeding, but a S172 prosecution will only lead to a worse outcome, not only in terms of fine and licence revocation but also an even worse effect on insurance premiums in the future).

 

If the speeding has no defence:

Band C fine, and disqualification (7-56 days) or six points, on first glance of the Magistrates Courts Sentencing guidelines

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/speeding-revised-2017/

 

However, for "driving grossly in excess of the speed limit the court should consider a disqualification in excess of 56 days", even before:

 

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/8-new-drivers/

 

"Drivers who incur six points or more during the two-year probationary period after passing the driving test will have their licence revoked automatically by the Secretary of State; they will be able to drive only after application for a provisional licence pending the passing of a further test (Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995).

An offender liable for an endorsement which will cause the licence to be revoked under the new drivers’ provisions may ask the court to disqualify rather than impose points. This will avoid the requirement to take a further test. Generally, this would be inappropriate since it would circumvent the clear intention of Parliament."

 

So, the likely outcome is a band C fine, 6 points and thus automatic revocation of his licence.

That is provided they are just prosecuting for the speed (and not considering careless or dangerous driving........)

Edited July 31, 2021 by BazzaS

[dx100uk]

9 hours ago, StupidSpeed said:

as a parent this is not much fun to go through. We have given the guidance don't speed, and if you do keep under 90MPH.

 

The max speed limit in the UK is 70MPH, there are no exceptions. 

[Manxman in exile]

CRIPES!   

 

I could just about understand a 140mph nineteen year-old on a 'bike, but in a car!  Wow...

 

Taking as a given that your son will not be able to drive for a long time, his biggest problem is going to be finding affordable insurance once he gets his licence back. 

 

I'm not sure if prospective insurers would know the speed he was being prosecuted for, but at twice the legal limit I wouldn't be surprised if insurance was virtually unobtainable except at extremely exorbitant premiums.  (Even more so if he has an expensive or extremely fast car - which I presume it is for a teenager to be caught doing 140mph). 

 

He may have to be very careful in future to avoid the temptation to drive without insurance.  Not saying he would, but people do do that...

 

Also - and I appreciate that this may come across as judgmental but it's said with the best intention - what does this mean?

 

9 hours ago, StupidSpeed said:

.... I do know he would not have been the only car doing this speed at that time...

 

Personally I would find that the most concerning aspect (and I think I wouldn't broadcast the fact).  He has only been charged with speeding - yes?

 

Sorry - but he sounds like he needs a rocket up the proverbial.

 

4 hours ago, dx100uk said:

 

The max speed limit in the UK is 70MPH, there are no exceptions. 

 

Yeah!  I didn't think the parental advice was particularly sound either!

[Man in the middle]

Quote

So, the likely outcome is a band C fine, 6 points and thus automatic revocation of his licence.

 

I don’t agree with Bazza’s assessment. The guidance to impose points rather than a ban applies when there is a choice of sentencing options. If he had driven on the cusp of a ban (say 105-110mph) either six points or a ban would be a consideration and points should be imposed so as to trigger the New Drivers’ rules. There are also occasions where drivers who clearly would not otherwise be banned ask for a short ban in order to circumvent those rules. That is what the guidance seeks to address.

 

That is not the case here. I believe he can forget any idea that points will be imposed for this offence. He will be banned. I would expect the court to begin their deliberations at around six months and work upwards from there when they hear about his inexperience. Anything less than six months will be a result but I would not be surprised to see a ban of up to a year imposed. So the “New Drivers” legislation should not be a worry for him. All he will have to do is worry about where he will get insured and how much it will cost him. Insurers will see, together with his SP50 endorsement, that he also received a lengthy ban and will put two and two together (to come up with £££££s). He was indeed lucky not to have been caught camera and not by a patrol. If it had been a stop he may well be facing a careless (or more probably dangerous) driving charge. As it is, it is unusual to see such charges follow a camera catchment.

 

If he fails to return the S172 request for driver’s details he will receive six points (which will see his licence revoked). That endorsement (MS90) for a young driver is probably a bigger killer insurance wise than speeding endorsements. The thinking behind that is that insurers wonder what the offender may have done that caused him to fail to name the driver. In this case their general suspicions would be well founded.

 

The maximum fine for the offence is £2,500. However the guidance suggests a fine of a week’s net income. That incorporates his one third discount for a guilty plea. I would not be surprised if the court increases that in view of the seriousness of the offence. He will also pay a “Victim Surcharge” of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and £85 costs.

[StupidSpeed]

Thanks again for the replies. For now we have to wait for the court date and hope. 

 

One final question, the NIP notice of the Police sent detailed the speeding prosecution, can the Police / CPS change this? 

 

 

[Man in the middle]

Quote

One final question, the NIP notice of the Police sent detailed the speeding prosecution, can the Police / CPS change this? 

 

It's arguable. Dangerous driving and careless driving both require a NIP to be served within 14 days in the same way as speeding does. The legislation (S1, Road Traffic Offenders Act) states that a NIP must specify "... the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed" So you could argue that the nature of dangerous/careless driving is totally different to that of speeding (and I would agree). So whilst there is nothing to stop the police or CPS preferring more charges, the lack of a NIP may make a prosecution likely to fail.