Backdoor Arrow/Drydens 2008 CCJ/CO - MBNA Card - , debt was already SB'd , **WON** set aside - Now being chased 12yrs later.!!

[42man]

Increase your research time to include the real hours you have done.....

[mandyjayne]

yes 42 man letters were dated, not on headed paper either

 

13th feb 2007 says (the above debt has been passed to us for collection)

 

23rd feb 2007 (reminder for above letter)

 

27th april 2007 (final demand)

 

19th june 2007 (will apply for ccj if no payment received)

 

bump

 

have to go soon so..

 

whats the worse case senario here...if i lose will i be able to pay a small amount each week i know i will still have the ccj but will the charging order then be removed if i am paying? and any answers to the date of the letters question??

 

well guess im about to find out..im off ...no answer in time bye all

Edited March 11, 2009 by mandyjayne
add

[WelshMam2009]

Bit late in the day, but hope it's all going well for you MJ...am crossing my fingers and toes for luck!!

[DocH]

Hi MJ,

 

Sorry I wasn't around this morning, but see you've had some excellent advice from 42man.

 

What was the result?

[Von Greenbach]

Hi MJ

 

Any update

[mandyjayne]

Hi guys..

 

well the judge has set aside the ccj and the charging order, but i have to send a cpr 18 request i will go into more detail tomorrow got people here

 

regards mj:)

[Von Greenbach]

Well done MJ

 

That's the 1st hurdle over

[DocH]

Well done, that's a great start, first round to you

[r&b]

well played mandyjane good on you..

[mandyjayne]

Hi guys and thanks for the support!!!

 

Let me tell you what happened...

 

I arrived at court at 1.00pm, my hearing was at 2.00pm...i was actually called in at.........4.45pm!!! the last case of the day, nearly 4 hours later.

They block book between 8 to 10 cases all at 2.00, i have never been so stressed in all my life, running out to keep putting money in the car park for one thing!!!

 

Anyway, a very young legel rep turned up for Arrow, no older than my son! He offered to chat i declined.

 

The judge was very nice it was held in a big court not a room so quite scary, first thing the judge tackled was why i didnt receive the court papers and ask claiment why they werent served. He said they were, judge said quite clearly says on these court forms "Papers not served".

 

He didnt really ask me much read alot out from his CPR rule book regarding set aside, and that is what he did, ccj and charging order set aside.

 

Now the bit im not too sure about, claiment has until 1st April to produce all relevent documents, statements, default notice, etc.

 

He praised me for the effort i had made as a litigant in person but said sending the CPR31 was the wrong thing, it should have been CPR18???

are they not very similar and how do i go about doing that???

 

The solicitor said that MBNA were still in possesion of all the docs, would this be the case if the debt has been sold on?

 

Now the set aside has been granted how do get it removed and the c.o..will the court send me anything to confirm this?

 

And will i have another hearing if they carry on with the claim

 

so many questions sorry

 

MJ

[r&b]

im a bit earlier in the process than u and i wont offer any advice as im not fully au fait just yet ....however the set aside merely takes u back to the point of the original ccj so u have to defend that next...the experienced guys r not online at the moment so ive put my tuppence in...im sure they ll help once they r back...have a look at Doch s brief explanation of the process in my thread post #45..hope this helps temporarily..and well done so far..

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/180864-finding-faulty-cca-agreements-3.html

 

sorry just read the whole thread u know all that anyway... apologies for takin up the space,...

[mandyjayne]

bump for post 170 please guys:confused:

 

and thanks r&b..comments always welcome!!!

 

i will have a read of your thread soon see if i can add anything helpful!!

 

regards MJ

[Von Greenbach]

Now the set aside has been granted how do get it removed and the c.o..

You can't at this stage have the CO removed, having it set aside only takes the case back to the beginning.

[mandyjayne]

Hi von greenbach,

 

Are you sure of that?

 

If it takes me back to the beginning then that means no ccj and no co i didnt have them at the start?

 

Can someone confirm?

[WelshMam2009]

MJ...were you given a copy of the Judge's decision that you could scan and place on here or copy the wording verbatim?

 

Got this from the CPR...not 100% sure if it relates to you. However, if I'm right then the Judge thinks you have a good case (papers not served should suffice in my opinion) and eventually he should overturn any CCJ and subsequently linked actions such as court orders. If this occurs, then I believe that your case should be well and truly statute barred as I don't believe that any further action can be taken.

 

However, this is a layman's interpretation and I am sure that someone with a better grasp of the legal profession will be along to help you shortly!!

 

Cases where the court may set aside or vary judgment entered under Part 12

 

13.3

 

(1) In any other case, the court may set aside(GL) or vary a judgment entered under Part 12 if –

(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or

 

(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –

(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or

 

(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.

 

 

 

(2) In considering whether to set aside(GL) or vary a judgment entered under Part 12, the matters to which the court must have regard include whether the person seeking to set aside the judgment made an application to do so promptly.

Edited March 12, 2009 by WelshMam2009
minor wording

[DocH]

The judge was very nice it was held in a big court not a room so quite scary, first thing the judge tackled was why i didnt receive the court papers and ask claiment why they werent served. He said they were, judge said quite clearly says on these court forms "Papers not served".

 

Well the claimant's sol had clearly done his homework then!

 

He didnt really ask me much read alot out from his CPR rule book regarding set aside, and that is what he did, ccj and charging order set aside.

 

Now the bit im not too sure about, claiment has until 1st April to produce all relevent documents, statements, default notice, etc.

 

You're going to need a copy of the order the judge will have issued to be clear what he has ordered the claimant to do. But I read into that that he has agreed to your draft directions submitted with the AQ, albeit the wrong CPR was used, and has given the claimant until 1 Apr to produce the documents.

 

He praised me for the effort i had made as a litigant in person but said sending the CPR31 was the wrong thing, it should have been CPR18???

are they not very similar and how do i go about doing that???

 

Well done you. The CPR's are similar and I don't think you need to do anything at the moment - the judgement order will clarify this once received.

 

The solicitor said that MBNA were still in possesion of all the docs, would this be the case if the debt has been sold on?

 

Not necessarily. In some cases the DCAs buy the debt but not the paperwork, it costs them less to do so. MBNA have not got a very good reputation for retaining paperwork.

 

Now the set aside has been granted how do get it removed and the c.o..will the court send me anything to confirm this?

 

The judgement is now set aside which means that in effect it never existed, you are now in the position you would have been when the claim was first issued through the courts. As for their removal I'm not entirely sure, but it would be worth giving the Court Manager's office a ring to see if there is anything you need to do to get the CO removed by the Land Registry.

 

And will i have another hearing if they carry on with the claim

so many questions sorry

 

MJ

 

Unfortunately this is a possibility that cannot be discounted. You, however, have a complete defence to the case as it is a statute barred debt and they would be wasting their money to persue it. They would also be leaving themselves open to a wasted costs claim from you.

 

Once you get the judgement order would you scan it and post it on the forum please (minus identifying details) and we can give you further advice.

[mandyjayne]

Hi DocH, and thanks welshmam too.

 

Thanks for all the answers to the questions that kept me awake last night!!

 

Yes the judgment order is being sent by post and i will post here when i get it..

 

They have been given till 1st April to produce all the docs i have been requesting.

Solicitors have already sent me a dodgy credit card application which i posted earlier in the thread as a response to my subject access request, and i received copies of four letters (see post 170) in their defence papers sent on tues, i have of course never seen these letters before in my life, i assume these are supposed to be the assignment, default, and termination letters.

 

Well i will ring the court and land registry today and see what the process is for ccj removal.

 

thanks all, post soon

 

mj:D

 

Hi again..update

 

Ok i have just spoken to the land registry..if the ccj has been set aside then the charging order comes off, i need to send them the discharge notice (certificate) from court along with form RX3 from the land registry, they said it can even be done in one day...on the day its received!

 

Then i spoke to the court, the judgment order and the discharge notice have been sent to the admin people who type up and dispatch, but this can take up to 10 days:(.

 

I also need to send a copy of the discharge notice to the credit reference agencies.

 

Then we shall see what happens on 1st April..round 2 ding ding:mad:

 

regards MJ

Edited March 13, 2009 by mandyjayne
add

[WelshMam2009]

I have a good feeling about this MJ and am incensed that you should even find yourself in this position in the first place! Good luck and will keep following your thread with interest!

[mandyjayne]

Thanks welshmam,

 

All support greatly received:D

 

Will post up the judgment order when it arrives for what to do next:confused:

 

Hi all..

 

I have just spoken to a very helpful lady at my county court who kindly went and found the judgment order for me and read it out it still needs to officially come to me of course, but this has helped...

 

It says..roughly

 

The Order

 

1. The judgment set on 17th september 2008 is set aside.

 

2. Permission for defendant to file and serve a defence by 4pm on the 15th April 2009.

 

3. Claiment to produce by 1st April 2009 all documents requested in defendants letters of 17th Nov 2008.

 

4. The interim charging order made on 20th Oct 2008 is hereby discharged.

 

5. costs.

 

Thats it...what do i do now??.advice please

 

thanks MJ

[WelshMam2009]

You need to get your defence ready to serve by 15 April MJ...which might be a little difficult to complete until you have been supplied with all of the necessary paperwork by the claimant.

 

Remember the Judge said you had to submit under part 18. This is what CPR says...

 

Obtaining further information

18.1

 

(1) The court may at any time order a party to –

(a) clarify any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings; or

 

(b) give additional information in relation to any such matter,

 

whether or not the matter is contained or referred to in a statement of case.

 

(2) Paragraph (1) is subject to any rule of law to the contrary.

 

(3) Where the court makes an order under paragraph (1), the party against whom it is made must –

(a) file his response; and

 

(b) serve it on the other parties,

 

within the time specified by the court.

 

(Part 22 requires a response to be verified by a statement of truth)

(Part 53 (defamation) restricts requirements for providing further information about sources of information in defamation claims)

Restriction on the use of further information 18.2

 

The court may direct that information provided by a party to another party (whether given voluntarily or following an order made under rule 18.1) must not be used for any purpose except for that of the proceedings in which it is given.

[mandyjayne]

Thanks welshmam

 

can anyone help me with a defence please??

 

Does the claiment have to send to me the documents the judge has ordered?? i thought it had to go to the court, but if that is the case how do i submit a defence not knowing what they send:confused:

 

confused with cpr 18 sorry welshmam:(

 

cheers MJ

[DocH]

can anyone help me with a defence please??

 

Hi MJ,

 

I would wait until you've had the documents that the court has ordered the claimants to send to you, before attempting to compile a defence. We can give you a hand with your defence, but you'll need to scan and post up the documents.

 

Does the claiment have to send to me the documents the judge has ordered?? i thought it had to go to the court, but if that is the case how do i submit a defence not knowing what they send:confused:

 

Yes the claimants have to send the documents to you. If you've had nothing from the claimants by 1 Apr, get onto the court and let them know.

 

confused with cpr 18 sorry welshmam:(

 

cheers MJ

[mandyjayne]

Thanks doc..

 

so my deadline is the 15th of April, so another court date if there is one will be sent out after that?

 

question:

 

What if they produce all docs requested and things go wrong? will i just have to pay what i can afford each month?.. you never know:confused: and does the ccj/charging order go back on. obviously worst case senario:mad:

 

thanks mj

[WelshMam2009]

Don't worry unnecessarily MJ....you're just having a few jitters which is understandable in the circumstances.

 

I personally find it incredible that this case has progressed to where it is when the papers clearly have 'not served' on them.

 

Glad DocH has jumped in to help. I think you just need to prepare a statement which includes a declaration of truth. The Courts will always help you also.

 

Based on the information you have, begin jotting down your legal argument. If and when the paperwork arrives you can then start 'beefing' this up.

 

It's the Claimants who should be worried as they have to prove that they did indeed serve the papers on you. Good luck and take a few deep breaths...you've done brilliantly so far MJ!!

[mandyjayne]

Thanks welshmam,

 

I feel a bit better, it is really strange with the emotions, one minute your all fired up and nothing matters then next day you keep thinking about it too much and feel anxious and worried:cry:

 

Well i must say this time last week i was far more worried than i am today:eek:, and i got though that with a great result:D.

 

I appreciate you taking time to read up on my posts and keep me sane.

 

check back later thanks again x