Hi, long time since I have been on so hope I have put this in the correct place. I am taking two large loans from a friend and family, to clear some business issues, both of which need to be secured on my property. Lawyers are asking ridiculous sums for agreements and posting the charges. A full legal charge appears to be too complicated and time consuming for my needs so I am proposing equitable charges which should suffice. My question is, what forms do I need to submit to the land registry and can this be backed by a simple loan agreement between lender and borrower? Would there be templates on the site for loan agreement and charge as I cannot seem to find them myself? The loan agreement I can find online if necessary, it is the charge details that I do not have. Many thanks for any input. r

Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the help

Nicklea, are we still talking the same as 2 years ago, Credit Agreement (valid) - I have one unreadable from Goldfish and I think there were fundamental problems with the Egg one regarding Credit Limits, both posted above, valid DN, valid Assignment, LBA, etc, etc? I am very rusty, not that I was any expert to start with.... Would different terms within the 2 debts allow me to make any case against them being put into the same judgment or is it simply black and white, they own them both, they are both in my name, therefore they can put them under the same claim? Thanks

Been a long time but has come back to bite.. clubbed together with another debt so updated on new thread here if anyone interested: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?302107-CABOT-EGG-GOLDFISH-COURT-ORDER-clubbed-together

Been a long time but this has come back to bite... its been clubbed together with another debt so updated together on new thread here if anyone interested: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?302107-CABOT-EGG-GOLDFISH-COURT-ORDER-clubbed-together

Thank you Fred, nicklea and izzitme for the input. The 'Agreements' are posted in the threads linked in post #1 but I've copied them below again: Egg: http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/robntanya/EGGARCpropersarreply2.jpg http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/robntanya/EGGARCpropersarreply3.jpg Goldfish: http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/robntanya/CABOTGOLDFISHCCA.jpg I think, unless anyone has any better ideas, that I had best put in an N244 for set aside based on the fact that the Credit Agreements are unenforceable, together with a letter asking for an adjournment of the final charging order hearing until the set aside has been heard. These are the links to the original threads: Egg: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182429-EGG-ARC-no-cca-now-solicitor-threats Goldfish: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182105-unreadable-cca-from-goldfish-cabot If anyone has any further ideas I would be grateful.

Hi Cymruambyth, Thanks for the sentiment and info.

Hi, not been here for a while and would like to check a few things. Firstly if this is in the right place -I can barely find my way around- if not please move it. Cut a long story short it appears Cabot have attained a judgment against me without my knowledge (NCCBC) and clubbed together an Egg and a Goldfish debt into the bargain. I only found out when they phoned me about a final charging order hearing. I managed to defer that but it appears that the new hearing is for the first week in May at my local court. I have had no notification from the courts about this either! My queries relate to the fact that: 1. they have clubbed them together in one package as a single judgment (£10k ish and £5kish), is this correct? 2. do the same rules apply to Credit Agreements etc as they were 2 years ago or has anth changed? 3. from memory I have to post some form of defence before the hearing. I'll look back through my old stuff but if anyone has any clues it would speed things up for me. The previous threads are below: EGG: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182429-EGG-ARC-no-cca-now-solicitor-threats GOLDFISH: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?182105-unreadable-cca-from-goldfish-cabot many thanks for any help.

RM, my opinion for what its worth would be that should you lose, you are no worse off, save for a few costs that will be added to the judgment and a few late nights genning up. thats ur risk. you will only be asked to pay what u can reasonably afford, judged from your inc/exp sheet. should a DJ see that even with an enforceable agreement the DN is faulty, you will have to pay the arrears only. that is without casting further doubt with regard to the NoA or any other issues. the defence route will cause aggravation and anguish as going into a hearing is generally never a pleasant experience for a LIP but should they see the error of their ways, u may find it never gets that far (typically right up to it tho ) but u have to be prepared for that eventuality. u have to weigh the benefits from the detractions and see what's rite for you, the help needed is available. best of luck with whatever u decide.

hi rob, in all honesty id posted that just after my hearing (mistake) before id had chance to look into properly so apologies for that error of judgement. it appears from what i can find out (and shall be using in my own case) that the CPR can be shown to relate to Court documentation only and have no bearing on documents under Statute, where the Interpretation Act 1978 clearly states that it does.

lol :D

u will need a transcript of the judgment to accompany the N161 for an appeal as we remarked earlier.....hows that work then?

thanks to your help with the appeal process, im onto the Skelly robin...thats the easy bit ...gettin all the docs in the correct format, as u know, is the diff bit of all this appeal rubbish....unless of course the bloody court office are as evasive as the opposition lawyers!!!! the more you get to know the workings of this stuff...the more you realise just what a lottery it all is...fine if you re being paid by the hour...not so good if its for yourself. been a real eye opener to someone like myself who had the establishment is always right drummed into them....now its been summarily drummed out im afraid:rolleyes:

hi robin, can the court office not help with this? it is after all procedure and not legal advice. i dont see why u should have to pay a further fee (N244) myself but have to check i suppose.

yes i believe that is the case however, its my understanding, and im happy to be corrected, that a part 18 request is better suited to fast/multi track rather than SCT, which is why i suggested a 31.14. it doesnt however, as a LIP, who may not have a full grasp of the CPR;), prevent you from asking for the other docs, they might just not provide them. my opinion of course.

a dodgy DN is a defence to the amounts claimed, meaning they can only claim the arrears, assuming u get a decent DJ who agrees. if u dont want the hassle, however, u can simply admit the claim, put a payment proposal in with ur inc/exp sheet and take it on the chin if thats the way u want to go. its obviously completely ur choice how u play it.

as it wud pob be best to keep it to SCT to keep potential costs down, i personally wud send a 31.14 : Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage - The Consumer Forums it may be a gd idea to read up on the relevant CPRs so u have an idea of wot u r sending and why. link to CPR shud be in my sig if not a google bring it straight up for u.

see if BRWs post #206 here helps at all: AMEX & AIC & Newman - Page 12 - The Consumer Forums a relevant search shud throw up all u need i wud think.

blimey shakey u have received the back end just about of everything possible in this. im so sorry mate this is appalling. take a little while to have a drink (or 20) n clear ur head. the next round will be urs for sure, its disgraceful. just one point , i thought he had to complete judgment, or how can u appeal?

hi KAZ, no need to panic ill just throw in a few of my ideas. im sure u know u have 14 days plus 5 for service, from the date on the claim form, in which to complete ur AOS (i assume its thru northampton bulk ctr?) online using the password on the right side of the claim form. u then have a further 14 days in which to enter a defence. if that agmt is as illegible as it looks, you will need to seek disclosure of a legible copy of the loan agmt (and hope u get the same copy;)). the DN fails on almost every lvl. u can ask for another copy of the NOA but also go for the Deed Of Assignment which is the real document for them taking on the account (and they wont like it). did u get a letter threatening court action at all? how much is the claim for roughly? i wud suggest, if u havent dun so already, a SAR (it takes 40 days as u will be aware but the court process can be long and drawn out so may produce useful info further on). my thoughts are, depending on whether it will be fast track or SCT a CPR31.14 rqst for the docs mentioned in the POC or a CPR18 rqst for all info required (i understand part 18 rqst will need to be fast/multi track). give any rqst 7 days to reply as u may need to send reminders for non-compliance. u have plenty of time so sit back have a look at the docs and any letters and assess where u are. the DN alone looks like u have some ammo.

i agree with shadow complain for sure (think the form is EX343)....hope it goes ur way this mng shakey..

RM...u have 14 + 5 days for service in which to do AOS....then a further 14 days for your defence..from the date on the claim form

my understanding is that this is now a SJ hearing based on what is in their WS. u have to reply to that in one of your own (to which they may reply further) and make sure u take issue with every part of theirs, providing evidence/case law as far as possible.

did u have a look at the threads in posts 144/145? they have the procedure that people have followed and the CPR for SJ. as i understand it, u need to get together a witness statement that trashes theirs in every respect and file and serve (send to court and other side) no less than 7 days b4 the hearing as per CPR 24.5(1). those threads shud give u some ideas i hope.