NPower - transposed reading with overcharging

[BankFodder]

I'm not quite clear. Are you saying that the £1155.50 p is simply the payment in those 12 months to May 2019?

[Hozza]

4 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I'm not quite clear. Are you saying that the £1155.50 p is simply the payment in those 12 months to May 2019?

Yep that's the total amount of DD and extra card payments to NPower

 

Still working out the last 12 months as I need to subtract the correct bill

Edited April 30, 2020 by Hozza

[BankFodder]

So I understand that the figure for the most recent 12 months is on top of that – correct?

In other words, the £1155.50 p is the amount which Npower is having to forfeit 100% because of the back billing code.

When you refer to "extra card payments" what is this about?

[Hozza]

1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

So I understand that the figure for the most recent 12 months is on top of that – correct? 

 

Yes, I am still subtracting the correct bill from my payments. Easier to do the before ones as I just need to add all the payments up!

2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

When you refer to "extra card payments" what is this about?

 

When there was a massive debt in my account due to "underpayment" at the time, used my card to make the balance £0 so to avoid a £300 DD. 

[BankFodder]

Can you tell us about the underpayment please. Is there any chance that this is impacted on your credit file?

[BankFodder]

Are you prepared to take a legal action – a small claim in the County Court?

It's a very simple process although it's worth knowing the steps in advance. Your risk factors would include your claim fee and if it went to a hearing then also the hearing fee but you would get these back if you want – and on the basis of everything I understand, your chances of success are better than 90%. This would also allow you to claim 8% interest.

If you would be prepared to go this route then I would suggest that rather than wait the 28 days that you would send them an immediate letter of claim in respect of the £1155.50 p and given 14 days to pay you. If they didn't pay you – as they almost certainly won't, then you would issue the claim papers for that figure plus the interest.

Then when eventually a corrected bill arrived for the most recent 12 months, if they don't fall into line quickly on that then I would suggest that you would issue a legal action in respect of that as well. However, I would expect that having received the claim papers in respect of the larger sum, they will tend to fall into line fairly quickly in respect of the smaller sum – but if not then you would simply issue the papers again.

Also I think that in the first claim you would also make a claim for compensation in respect of their inaccurate handling of your personal data. That would bring a small amount extra of compensation and some extra satisfaction.

It's up to you. It won't take a lot of time – but it will take time. If you have better things to do then you might want to wait it out – but I think in the end it will take a lot more arguing and wrangling because until they receive the claim papers, they will still think that they got a chance of negotiating a smaller sum, conning you out of the back billing code, avoiding interest, reducing interest, and in the end maybe avoided paying you cash but simply giving you a credit against future bills. None of this would be in your interests.

 

 

Have you sent the SAR?

[Hozza]

6 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Can you tell us about the underpayment please. Is there any chance that this is impacted on your credit file?

 

Not at all as we always pay the debit amount asap and we always paid the DD on time. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Hozza

[BankFodder]

Okay, I thought maybe that they had been hassling you and making threats based on their miscalculation.

I think you understand the situation now so it is completely up to you as to how you want handle it. I do notice that in an early post you said one of the things which "grinds your gears" is the fact that you are being made to wait 28 days. I think your attitude is extremely reasonable. And also if you imagine that at the end of 28 days they will produce a proper and, then you are in for a bit of a surprise.

[Hozza]

So what options do I have:

• Wait for NPower to resolve and the amended bill to arrive, then demand them to pay out the full amount from 2018-19 with interest and the excess for the last 12 month + interest, with some more compensation
• Issue a letter of claim now depending the same amount of money as above, and take them to small claims if they refuse

Am I correct? 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Hozza

[Hozza]

Also, what happens if they flatly refused at the end of query that the bill is wrong, do I have to follow their complain process? 

[Hozza]

Have not sent the SAR yet as it looks like I have to post it 

[BankFodder]

 

23 minutes ago, Hozza said:

So what options do I have:

• Wait for NPower to resolve and the amended bill to arrive, then demand them to pay out the full amount from 2018-19 with interest and the excess for the last 12 month + interest, with some more compensation
• Issue a letter of claim now depending the same amount of money as above, and take them to small claims if they refuse

Am I correct? 

 

21 minutes ago, Hozza said:

Also, what happens if they flatly refused at the end of query that the bill is wrong, do I have to follow their complain process? 

 

If Npower flatly disagree with you then it is up to you as to what you want to do. If you are certain that you have the evidence on your side in order to press home your case – then you begin your legal action and eventually they will either sit down and look at the case more carefully and realise that you are right or they will force you into court and then a judge will look at the evidence – and hopefully decide that you're right. If the evidence is with you – and it appears to be then the result is a foregone conclusion.

Why are you obliged to follow their complaints process? Their complaints process exists to serve their own procedures – and it is their own procedures which have made the mistake so far. It's up to you. If you want to assert control then you have to lay down the timelines for action and stick to them. You have to demonstrate Npower that they are no longer in control. They have breached trust and so they have now forfeited the privilege of running your account. You are now taking over.
In modern business speak – you are taking ownership of the problem.

 

17 minutes ago, Hozza said:

Have not sent the SAR yet as it looks like I have to post it 

 

You can send it any way you want – including by telephone. Npower routinely place obstacles and impose formalities to be satisfied before they will acknowledge that they have received an SAR – but that is all unlawful. As long as there is no question of your identity. For instance, if you are using the name to which the bills are addressed and the address to which they are sent and the reference number of the bill then that is sufficient to ascertain your identity. Some people like Npower and particularly Vodafone start asking for special forms to be filled in and won't acknowledge an SAR until that is completed.

This is against the law and they're not entitled to do it.

 

Some companies insist on having the SAR in writing. For instance, a bank which is already established your identity checks over the telephone so that they are then prepared to discuss your personal financial details – when you ask them for an SAR, they will generally say that because of security it has to be received in writing.

They refuse to accept that an SAR can be made verbally – but in fact they are wrong.

I haven't figured out whether it is a question of poor staff development or simply obstructive behaviour. Either way it is unlawful.

[Hozza]

3 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

You can send it any way you want – including by telephone. Npower routinely place obstacles and impose formalities to be satisfied before they will acknowledge that they have received an SAR – but that is all unlawful. As long as there is no question of your identity. For instance, if you are using the name to which the bills are addressed and the address to which they are sent and the reference number of the bill then that is sufficient to ascertain your identity. Some people like Npower and particularly Vodafone start asking for special forms to be filled in and won't acknowledge an SAR until that is completed. This is against the law and they're not entitled to do it.

Some companies insist on having the SAR in writing. For instance, a bank which is already established your identity checks over the telephone so that they are then prepared to discuss your personal financial details – when you asked them for an SAR, they will generally say that because of security it has to be received in writing. They refused to accept that an SAR can be made verbally – but in fact they are wrong. I haven't figured out whether it is a question of poor staff development or simply obstructive behaviour. Either way it is unlawful.

 

The account holder is my dad and it seems to be a pain to get on the phone line recently, and even with my name listed as contact, they refused to do most things on the phone. 

[BankFodder]

If the account holder is your father, then any action will have to be taken by your father – unless you live at the property and it was clear that you are intended to be a beneficiary of the contract. In that case you can rely on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act in which case as the third party you inherit all of the rights of action that were enjoyed by your father – who was a contracting party

[Hozza]

4 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

If the account holders your father, then any action will have to be taken by your father – unless you live at the property and it was clear that you are intended to be a beneficiary of the contract. In that case you can rely on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act in which case as the third party you inherit all of the rights of action that were enjoyed by your father – who was a contracting party

 

That's exactly what we are intending to do at the moment as he is busy on other cases at the same time, and I am indeed the occupier of the property. 

[BankFodder]

When you say he is busy on other cases – what does it do? Is he a lawyer?

[Hozza]

Nope he's a retired engineer. 

Got a claim against another property developer to sort out.

[BankFodder]

Well I think we have given you all the advice we can until you decide what you want to do.

[Hozza]

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Well I think we have given you all the advice we can until you decide what you want to do.

 

Thanks a lot. I will get the SAR out and take the middle of point of both action.

Probably going to chase them again next week and if they still can't give me update, I will get the letter of claim out (while I figure out how much they own for the last 12 months) 

[BankFodder]

Okay. If you decide to send a letter of claim then run it past us first

[Hozza]

Thanks @BankFodder I have just done all the calcs for how much NPower owns us. My dad and I are deciding what would be the best course of action. 

 

For the period March 2018 to May 2019: total sum paid to NPower is £1155.50 and 8% interest is £131.68 which works out to £1287.18

For the last 12 months up to the most recent bill, we are overcharged by a total of £445.76 with a 8% interest of £11.92. Total is £457.68 (I was being very lenient at the interest as I spread it across the year!) 

Which leads to the total to £1744.86

 

Hopefully I can recover the whole amount! 

[Hozza]

If NPower do actknowledge their error but is only willing to refund the difference of the whole contract duration, without any further interest (and attempting to claim the pre-May2019 part), what should I do in that scenario?

Would it be

• Using their complaints team then to Ombudsmen
• Straight up using a letter of claim and just demanding the £1744.86 (Probably going to make it £2000 for the effort and distress) 

[BankFodder]

The ombudsman takes a long time and is very limp wristed although it is completely risk-free because even if you lose, you won't even have to bear your own claim fee. If you bring a legal action and if you lost then you would have to bear your own claim fee.

However, in the circumstances your chances of success are better than 95%, in my view. Plus the interest will be at least as good as the ombudsman. Also, the ombudsman is unlikely to give you any compensation for distress caused by the inaccurate processing of your personal data.

Npower would much rather you went to the ombudsman. Does that answer your question?

[Hozza]

16 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

The ombudsman takes a long time and is very limp wristed although it is completely risk-free because even if you lose, you won't even have to bear your own claim fee. If you bring a legal action and if you lost then you would have to bear your own claim fee.

However, in the circumstances your chances of success are better than 95%, in my view. Plus the interest will be at least as good as the ombudsman. Also, the ombudsman is unlikely to give you any compensation for distress caused by the inaccurate processing of your personal data.

Npower would much rather you went to the ombudsman. Does that answer your question?

 

Sure that makes sense now, I will escalate and demand the £1.7k + compensation. If not I will straight out issue a letter to claim.  

My charge-out rate isn't too far off if I add the time up! 

 

Where can I find reference to that they have to pay out the FULL AMOUNT for bills older than 12 months? All the guidance are aimed at customers owning money rather than the other way round. 

[BankFodder]

You have to do your own search. Back billing code. Probably look at the energy regulator's website – and maybe at Npower's website.