ESA, end of work programme with Ingeus

[Beckz1205]

Hi, I'm unsure if I am posting this in the right place but I am looking for some advice or if anyone has been through anything similar and what happened.

 

I applied for ESA, and after a health assessment I was denied ESA. So I appealed and won the tribunal and was placed into the WRAG group. I had an interview at my job centre and was told I'd be starting the work programme at Ingeus. 2 years later I am at the end of my work programme (ends 2nd October) and I have not managed to secure a job.

 

I have been looking for jobs as a TA in a school, or as a last resort going back to work in a nursery. I have epilepsy and suffer from both grand mal seizures and absent seizures, so I didn't really want to go back to a stressful nursery. I also suffer from bad anxiety which can sometimes trigger my seizures.

 

Up until about 6 weeks ago my advisor hadn't really been helping much on the job front. But she has then started pushing me to apply for jobs which are either miles away or are full time when I specified I wanted part time only. The other day she told me that my only option now was to sign off and start doing Avon so I could keep getting support from them at Ingeus, but that would mean I would lose my ESA and have to wait months (her words) for my working tax to start, so I'd be depending on an income from Avon.

 

I also received a letter from the JC with an appointment to see a work coach and discuss my options. The letter says that the work coach will set me work related activities and help me prepare for a return to work when I am ready. My advisor told me that this was a meeting to get me ready to be put on jsa. Now I don't know what to do. I have heard people say she is pushing me to sign off because it benefits her.

 

Do I sign off? Or do I refuse to do so and see what happens at the work coach appointment? Surely they can't just stop my ESA and put me onto jsa?? Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Rebecca.

Edited September 26, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[antone]

Hell no, you shouldn't sign off ESA. I hate it when WP advisers come up with cr** like this.

 

She's pushing you now because Ingeus want their outcome payment (which is higher for you as an ESA claimant than it would be for someone on JSA) and they're running out of time to collect. Once you leave Ingeus, well, it's too late for them: they can't claim a penny. So they're trying to bully you now before that happens, and it's completely and utterly unacceptable. Once you get shot of them, I'd be tempted to make a formal complaint about this harassment and misinformation.

 

Anyhow, first thing's first: you are on ESA, and as such you cannot be mandated to apply for work (nor to take unpaid "work experience" or any other such nonsense). Your appointment with the Jobcentre is simply an exit review from the WP, and they can't just put you on JSA whenever they feel like it. You have to be found fit for work by an ESA assessment, which is a process that (as you know, having been through it a couple of years ago) is a bit more involved than a simple Jobcentre appointment and which, in any case, always carries a right of appeal.

 

So yes, refuse to sign off. If you do want to try the Avon thing (and I'm not saying that you should, but if you want to) speak to the Jobcentre and ask if it can be treated as "Permitted Work" - this would, if accepted, allow you to work a few hours per week and continue to receive your ESA. I won't go into detail about that unless you're interested, but be aware that such things are available.

 

Turn up to the WP as required for the next few weeks to avoid any sanctions. Then leave the place for good and never look back. Don't let your adviser bully you into things that are not in your best interests.

[Beckz1205]

Hell no, you shouldn't sign off ESA. I hate it when WP advisers come up with cr** like this.

 

She's pushing you now because Ingeus want their outcome payment (which is higher for you as an ESA claimant than it would be for someone on JSA) and they're running out of time to collect. Once you leave Ingeus, well, it's too late for them: they can't claim a penny. So they're trying to bully you now before that happens, and it's completely and utterly unacceptable. Once you get shot of them, I'd be tempted to make a formal complaint about this harassment and misinformation.

 

Anyhow, first thing's first: you are on ESA, and as such you cannot be mandated to apply for work (nor to take unpaid "work experience" or any other such nonsense). Your appointment with the Jobcentre is simply an exit review from the WP, and they can't just put you on JSA whenever they feel like it. You have to be found fit for work by an ESA assessment, which is a process that (as you know, having been through it a couple of years ago) is a bit more involved than a simple Jobcentre appointment and which, in any case, always carries a right of appeal.

 

So yes, refuse to sign off. If you do want to try the Avon thing (and I'm not saying that you should, but if you want to) speak to the Jobcentre and ask if it can be treated as "Permitted Work" - this would, if accepted, allow you to work a few hours per week and continue to receive your ESA. I won't go into detail about that unless you're interested, but be aware that such things are available.

 

Turn up to the WP as required for the next few weeks to avoid any sanctions. Then leave the place for good and never look back. Don't let your adviser bully you into things that are not in your best interests.

 

Thank for that very interesting read. I have been told by numerous people she is trying to get me to sign off so she can collect her bonus. I honestly thought she had my best interests and what she was advising me was the best thing to do. She said it was in my best interest to sign off whilst on ESA as I'll only have to work 16 hours and I'll be able to get

£90 odd working tax credit. Whereas if I leave there I won't get any support from them anymore, I'll have an appointment with a work coach and they will make me have another medical assessment and I'll be put on jsa, and I'll have to work 30 hours and get less wtc. I thought Ingeus were going to support me in finding a suitable job for my condition and I had 6 different advisers in 2 years and they just kept sending me on courses (confidence, anxiety, interview tips etc) and in he last couple of weeks she has had me applying for jobs not suitable and had me spend two days cold calling nurseries and schools.

[Mr.P]

The other day she told me that my only option now was to sign off and start doing Avon so I could keep getting support from them at Ingeus, but that would mean I would lose my ESA and have to wait months (her words) for my working tax to start, so I'd be depending on an income from Avon.

 

Working as an Avon rep does not mean you will earn any money. If you make any profit at all, it will be pin money. Avon is a borderline pyramid scheme in my opinion, and the only people making money out of it are those at the top. Do a little bit of research on their business practices and have a look at some of the threads about this company on CAG. If this Ingeus "adviser" thinks that you can earn a living wage from Avon, she needs a serious reality check. Also worth pointing out that Avon products can be bought online, so you are at an immediate disadvantage when trying to generate sales.

 

As an ESA claimant, you can not be mandated to look for, apply for, or take up employment.

[antone]

Thank for that very interesting read. I have been told by numerous people she is trying to get me to sign off so she can collect her bonus. I honestly thought she had my best interests and what she was advising me was the best thing to do. She said it was in my best interest to sign off whilst on ESA as I'll only have to work 16 hours and I'll be able to get

£90 odd working tax credit. Whereas if I leave there I won't get any support from them anymore, I'll have an appointment with a work coach and they will make me have another medical assessment and I'll be put on jsa, and I'll have to work 30 hours and get less wtc. I thought Ingeus were going to support me in finding a suitable job for my condition and I had 6 different advisers in 2 years and they just kept sending me on courses (confidence, anxiety, interview tips etc) and in he last couple of weeks she has had me applying for jobs not suitable and had me spend two days cold calling nurseries and schools.

 

Ingeus are never there to support you. Oh, OK, there have been a few WP advisers who've posted here and they've sounded (for the most part) like decent people, but the sad fact is that a few decent advisers isn't really enough. The WP companies are there to make profits.

 

The thing is, should you ever decide to sign off ESA it should be something you consider carefully, not something you do in a rush because a WP adviser is telling you that doom and horror will result if you don't. Ideally, at some point, you will be able to return to work and have a better life, but I really don't think giving up your benefit for no reason and working for Avon is going to give you that better life. As Mr.P says, it would be difficult - likely impossible - to make an acceptable living doing that. So here are the things I think are worth noting:

 

• As mentioned, you can't be required to look for or accept work while you're on ESA. So don't accept being badgered into cold calling schools and nurseries - you don't have to do it. I mean, I understand that you might not feel you want to start a row with your Ingeus adviser (with all the stress it would cause) so close to the end of your WP sentence, but just remember that you can refuse if you want to. Can you even get TA jobs with schools just by calling them up out of the blue? I thought most of that type of thing went through the local council.
  
• The Jobcentre adviser doesn't have the authority to refer you for another WCA ("medical assessment"). Of course, sooner or later you may have to go through that process again but even if you do, you were successful at your last appeal. You would have the same right of appeal against any future decision to stop your ESA. If your condition is still the same, you might well win that appeal too.
  
• In short, you can't just be "put" on JSA no matter what your Ingeus adviser tells you
  
• With regard to Working Tax Credit, it is correct that going from ESA to WTC does carry some advantages (as opposed to going from JSA to WTC) but as we've now seen, you can't just be kicked off ESA because you're leaving the WP.
  

[Beckz1205]

Ingeus are never there to support you. Oh, OK, there have been a few WP advisers who've posted here and they've sounded (for the most part) like decent people, but the sad fact is that a few decent advisers isn't really enough. The WP companies are there to make profits.

 

The thing is, should you ever decide to sign off ESA it should be something you consider carefully, not something you do in a rush because a WP adviser is telling you that doom and horror will result if you don't. Ideally, at some point, you will be able to return to work and have a better life, but I really don't think giving up your benefit for no reason and working for Avon is going to give you that better life. As Mr.P says, it would be difficult - likely impossible - to make an acceptable living doing that. So here are the things I think are worth noting:

 

• As mentioned, you can't be required to look for or accept work while you're on ESA. So don't accept being badgered into cold calling schools and nurseries - you don't have to do it. I mean, I understand that you might not feel you want to start a row with your Ingeus adviser (with all the stress it would cause) so close to the end of your WP sentence, but just remember that you can refuse if you want to. Can you even get TA jobs with schools just by calling them up out of the blue? I thought most of that type of thing went through the local council.
  
• The Jobcentre adviser doesn't have the authority to refer you for another WCA ("medical assessment"). Of course, sooner or later you may have to go through that process again but even if you do, you were successful at your last appeal. You would have the same right of appeal against any future decision to stop your ESA. If your condition is still the same, you might well win that appeal too.
  
• In short, you can't just be "put" on JSA no matter what your Ingeus adviser tells you
  
• With regard to Working Tax Credit, it is correct that going from ESA to WTC does carry some advantages (as opposed to going from JSA to WTC) but as we've now seen, you can't just be kicked off ESA because you're leaving the WP.
  

 

Thank you again for your useful information. I went to my local benefit advice office yesterday and made an appointment to see someone today to get information and see where I stand. I also rang the job centre to find out when my ESA ends and to my surprise it doesn't end until may 2017.

[Belfaster]

Thank you again for your useful information. I went to my local benefit advice office yesterday and made an appointment to see someone today to get information and see where I stand. I also rang the job centre to find out when my ESA ends and to my surprise it doesn't end until may 2017.

 

Your benefit does not end in May 2017, ESA is an indefinite award. Only when you are reassessed and the outcome is negative, your award will then end and you will be invited to claim JSA. The May 2017 is a prognosis date, you may well be reassessed before or after the date in question, try not to stress yourself about it.

[Apple19]

Hi, I'm unsure if I am posting this in the right place but I am looking for some advice or if anyone has been through anything similar and what happened.

 

I applied for ESA, and after a health assessment I was denied ESA. So I appealed and won the tribunal and was placed into the WRAG group. I had an interview at my job centre and was told I'd be starting the work programme at Ingeus. 2 years later I am at the end of my work programme (ends 2nd October) and I have not managed to secure a job.

 

I have been looking for jobs as a TA in a school, or as a last resort going back to work in a nursery. I have epilepsy and suffer from both grand mal seizures and absent seizures, so I didn't really want to go back to a stressful nursery. I also suffer from bad anxiety which can sometimes trigger my seizures.

 

Up until about 6 weeks ago my advisor hadn't really been helping much on the job front. But she has then started pushing me to apply for jobs which are either miles away or are full time when I specified I wanted part time only. The other day she told me that my only option now was to sign off and start doing Avon so I could keep getting support from them at Ingeus, but that would mean I would lose my ESA and have to wait months (her words) for my working tax to start, so I'd be depending on an income from Avon.

 

I also received a letter from the JC with an appointment to see a work coach and discuss my options. The letter says that the work coach will set me work related activities and help me prepare for a return to work when I am ready. My advisor told me that this was a meeting to get me ready to be put on jsa. Now I don't know what to do. I have heard people say she is pushing me to sign off because it benefits her.

 

Do I sign off? Or do I refuse to do so and see what happens at the work coach appointment? Surely they can't just stop my ESA and put me onto jsa?? Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Rebecca.

 

I was on ESA like you OP and they tried every which way to get me into the building - sending threatening letters and false appointments was just the start. It was a nightmare and made my depression far worse!

 

I had gone through about 4 different advisors and the last one let slip that no-one liked the company or the way they treat people... that's when I went digging and found that Triage Central (scots company who deliver the WP for DWP/Ingeus) had several run-ins with the press, many previous clients all claiming shocking stories of abuse of their power, lying and even theft! Even employees turned on the them!

 

They are despicable and as many have said they want to cash in on you as you're ESA and worth more money! Don't sign off - and make sure you tell them, under no circumstances do you need/have to apply for anything they say... it's all 99% bull*****.

 

Even when you leave please send a No Contact letter informing them you want ALL YOUR DATA taken OFF the system. I did this and haven't been bothered - it's completely your choice and they have to honour it. Some people get bombarded with calls/ letters and emails asking how they've gotten on once leaving Ingeus... they are snooping and I wouldn't chance talking to them as they fiddle there records and could try to claim an outcome payment for doing feck all!

 

Hello everyone:wave:

 

My local Ingeus finally did move premises, not anywhere near my end time on the WP of course... was at least another month later... see they just wanted me to attend their office. I dread to think what might have happened had I caved and went in...

 

So glad to be off this corrupt system! Thanks for all the advice again, antone and Mr.P