deceitful Landlord and heating on council tax "Urgent PLS"

[MV_das]

Hi there,

 

Please help me to sort this out... really appreciated your time and opinion on it.

I have come to know about this forum while i was looking for some tips for the appeal to tribunal.

 

I was a tenant of a multiple dwelling home.

I was introduced by a college mate to this house and the contract was under 3 names and we were students.

 

 

The landlord come to introduce three other guys who is also living there and looking after the property,

collecting rent on behalf of landlady.

 

 

Every month we are paying rent and other bills which includes council tax, gas and water etc to them.

 

I have come to know about the students get discounts on council tax and that'y why they separated contracts to only our names.

We used to pay in cash and sometimes transferred to bank accounts as well.

As far as landlord is happy, we didn't find any difficulty after words and didn't provide and recipe for the payments.

 

In November, the other two guys finished studies along with me and they left the house.

Subsequently i was informed the same to landlord as well as council to update on the same to the system.

 

In may, 2012 before i go on a holiday,

i informed guys about a new agreement as the old one was expired in March 2012

and i want just one for all other tenants as i finished my studies.

 

 

However, the landlord phoned up and promised me they will make it ready once i come back

and will update to council also.

 

 

In the end of 2012, i started seeing unpaid council letters coming from ealing council under my name on it.

I discussed the situation with both landlord and guys but they didn't provide an adequate information

and also while was a search for job, i didn't pay more attention on that.

 

As time went by, i saw another letter also at home under my name on it.

So, i decided to call council to know the situation.

They have informed about they holding the same old agreement and no new contract hasn't sent to them.

 

In April 2013,

i was following landlord for the agreement copy but didn't respond

instead of merely saying she has already sent to council

and they might have failed to update it on the system

 

 

.Again i called up council and informed the situation of other people living there apart from me

and landlord wasn't ready to make any changes on the contract.

 

 

So, i informed the same to council and requested to come and view the dwelling

to verify the living of other people

 

 

.At last they found other guys living there and said to me this is multiple dwelling home

and they will inform the landlord of this and she should be the liable person over due council tax.

Even though i made couple of payments when i saw it become due

and didn't have any intention for the guys to do so.

 

In July 2013, council send a confirmation letter to me that informing my account is now closed

and all liabilities put to landlords account.

So, i left the house with any more conversation with both guys or landlord.

 

 

But, in 2015 dec, again they sent a letter that i still owe them £1328.00 towards council tax

and when i contacted them that said the landlord sent a letter of possession from county court which i never new.

 

 

I phoned them again and explained the problem with landlord over tenancy agreement

and unknown situation of the county court judgement.

 

 

But, again they sent me a letter of final decision and i have to pay that amount

though i contributed towards my share.

So, i have to appeal against this decision and deceitful actions of landlord.

 

Please advise me , what to do next as the time is rushing on..got 1 more week to appeal.

with

regards

das

[Andyorch]

Hi MV_das and Welcome to CAG.

 

I will send out a few SOS,s to see if they can assist with your dilemma.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[MV_das]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks you for the kind reply.

I will want to write to the tribunal in this week, hence any advice will be really helpful.

 

Thanks

das

[stu007]

Hi

 

1. When did your Tenancy Agreement Start and Finish?

2. Did you have seperate Tenancy Agreements or well you all named on one Tenancy Agreement and who was the Lead Tenant?

3. What does the Tenancy Agreement state about Council Tax?

4. Did you give the correct Notice to Quit to the Landlord?

5. Do you know what the CCJ was for and are you sure it was the Landlord?

 

Now the CCJ I will see if I can get further advice for you.

 

In the meantime you could look at Trust: http://www.trustonline.org.uk/ (please be aware they do charge a small fee)

[MV_das]

HI,

1.The tenancy agreement was sighned in 2011-2012 along with other 2 guys and nothing was signed after their departure.

2. Neither of the tenancy agreements were issued.

3. Tenancy agreement stated that the tenants pay all the bills and council tax.

4. i have told about my move since she was refused to help me on this council tax due and requested for a copy of my tenancy agreement (between 2012-2013) which hasn't provided.

5. The CCJ information was told by council since i contacted them for the enquiry about the unpaid council tax during 2011 Nov - 2013 Aug my moving off date)

I have attached report of CCJ

[stu007]

Hi MV

 

I have had to unapprove your PDF please see my PM

[mariner51]

MV I understand English may not be your mother language but your spelling and grammar makes your posts difficult to understand for us natives.

Loads of questions about type of Tenancy - joint or single AST for whole property or room only + communal areas (poss HMO?), how many Ts were students?

What Tribunal are you so concerned about?

[*RainbowTears*]

Hi MV,

 

What is the CCJ for exactly?

 

As for whose liable to pay the Council Tax.

 

If the property is indeed a HMO (House Multiple Occupation) & the Tenants either;

 

have their own bedsits

 

or

 

paying rent on individual rooms with their own individual tenancy.

 

Then it IS the landlord who is liable to pay Council Tax.

 

 

Other conditions for LL paying CT;

 

Usually, the person living in a property will be the liable person, but sometimes it will be the owner of the property who will be liable to pay.

 

The owner will be liable if:

 

the property is in multiple occupation, for example, a house shared by a number of different households who all pay rent separately;

 

or

 

the people who live in the property are all under the age of 18;

 

or

 

the property is accommodation for asylum seekers;

 

or

 

the people who are staying in the property are there temporarily and have their main homes somewhere else;

 

or

 

the property is a care home, hospital, hostel or women's refuge.

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/tax/council-tax/council-tax/

 

MV, you can also seek further advice & support from your local Council Housing Office & from the CAB.

 

I do hope you manage to sort out the issues you're having.

 

Good luck!

[MV_das]

MV I understand English may not be your mother language but your spelling and grammar makes your posts difficult to understand for us natives.

Loads of questions about type of Tenancy - joint or single AST for whole property or room only + communal areas (poss HMO?), how many Ts were students?

What Tribunal are you so concerned about?

 

Hi,

Sorry for the confusion, my writing is poor,i admit.

It was assured shortage tenancy agreement with we're three on the contract and all of them were students. Since i new to this country, i didn't get enough to know much about this tenancy or how the renting works here in UK.

 

Firstly , i received final email from council that i Owe council tax since i removed other two tenants once they left the property and i lived there from 2011-2013 and during this time, i was provided a single tenancy which is the same old one.

Secondly, after lots of phone calls and emails i made, council asked me to appeal against their decision to valuation tribunal.

I don't know who is this valuation tribunal and what they do with this sort of case.

In short, landlord didn't provide further tenancy agreements after 2012 and i took this to council as there were lots of other people living.

So, i have to appeal now against this charge.

[MV_das]

Hi,

CCJ is for me ,

as i have told landlord that i won't vacate my room without providing a tenancy for my stay between 2012-2013.

 

 

i believe that the landlord may have gone to get this from court for removing me from the property

without any further dispute.

 

 

I didn't give much attention on this and never had any problem until end of 2012.

 

 

Swhen i found the council tax is due for two months, i took initiative to pay off.

 

In short, i don't have any individual tenancy agreement for the room i shared

and the whole year council tax to the house i have to pay.

 

 

The council has clear evidence of the house is multiple dwelling and it has recorded on the day of their inspector's viewing but still they made liable to pay me the outstanding.

 

I spoke to a nearest CAB and they also asked me to appeal to valuation tribunal.

 

will i be able to appeal with what ever documents i have?

 

 

I have a few bank statements showing that i paid rent for the room i was shared.

 

Also, i have collected a few letters, bank statements of other tenants during my stay,

as i taught this will help me to prove they were lived there.

 

 

Can i use these documents to prove about other tenants ?

 

 

This is really ridiculous to pay the whole that i am not entitled to.

 

 

I want to prove two things to valuation tribunal,

1 landlord's cheating on this matter

2 Council's decision on this matter is wrong, hence it's a multiple dwelling house.

 

Looking forward for your reply

thanks

[stu007]

Hi MV

 

Are you 100% certain you have a CCJ as your PDF which I have to unapprove says otherwise.

 

Who exactly stated you have a CCJ and what evidence do you have of this CCJ? (remember what I said above)

[MV_das]

Hi stu007,

Thanks for the reply, i did check on the link you have given me in your previous comment and found nothing on the file about CCJ. I think i misunderstood both CCJ and letter of possession.

This was the message from council, " In October 2013 the landlord ms (Edit], provided this office with a copy of Order of Possession dated 9th August 2013 stamped at Uxbridge County Court. She is named as the Claimant and you as the Defendant and in that the court orders that you give possession of 131 Trinity Road on or before 20th August 2013. "

So, does it relate to council tax?

what about the council's findings of other tenants ? The council inspected the property and found it is a home of multiple dwelling and landlord is liable for the tax and not me. They had sent a confirmation letter also that my account has closed and all the liabilities now billed to landlord in 2013. but still they chases me with this letter from landlord.

What to do now? and how this appeal is going to be a favourable one?

Edited February 18, 2016 by stu007
Name Removed

[ericsbrother]

Were you a full time student on an accredited course at the time? If so you have no council tax liability as you would be exempt. You should make this clear to the council if it applies.

[*RainbowTears*]

Hi MV,

 

That to me sounds like your LL went to Court to get a repossession order, I.E. for you to leave the property by a given date. If it indeed it is, then it's absolutely nothing to do with the CT.

 

The CT is a seperate issue.

 

You stated that the Council visited the property & found it to be a HMO. As such this works in your favour & that you were not liable for the CT.

 

That was for your LL to pay. As per my other post above.

 

So who exactly is chasing you?

 

Is it the LL writing to ask you to pay, or is it from the Council?

 

If it is from your LL, then you can either tell your LL that you have no liability as per Council statement & show him a copy of the letter the Council sent you (you keep the original for yourself) or you can go to the Council Housing officer & ask them to help you.

 

Lastly what appeal is it you mention?

[raydetinu]

confusing this is!

[MV_das]

Hi

Yes , you are right. I told LL that i need a copy of tenancy agreement between 2011-2012 and 2012-2013, which is the only prove that i could submit to council for them to say that i am just one of the several tenant. However, LL was not happy to provide any further agreement copies and started verbal threatening. So i have decided to call an officer from council to view the property and verify my given details about other occupants are true.

 

Therefore, council supposed to bill LL and relive from the whole liability instead. So, let me ask you, if Council come to know the dwelling is HMO and there is no valid tenancy agreement in place,

what will the council do?

Whose liability is that to pay the CT for the whole house?

How can council chase me once they have had sent me a letter states that my account closed.

Lots of questions to be answered here.

Anyway i just appealed to the valuation tribunal with the help of my available documents.

Hope they will investigate and will bring a fruitful conclusion on it.

Hi MV,

 

That to me sounds like your LL went to Court to get a repossession order, I.E. for you to leave the property by a given date. If it indeed it is, then it's absolutely nothing to do with the CT.

 

The CT is a seperate issue.

 

You stated that the Council visited the property & found it to be a HMO. As such this works in your favour & that you were not liable for the CT.

 

That was for your LL to pay. As per my other post above.

 

So who exactly is chasing you?

 

Is it the LL writing to ask you to pay, or is it from the Council?

 

If it is from your LL, then you can either tell your LL that you have no liability as per Council statement & show him a copy of the letter the Council sent you (you keep the original for yourself) or you can go to the Council Housing officer & ask them to help you.

 

Lastly what appeal is it you mention?

[mariner51]

2 different depts. that don't communicate? Housing and C Tax.

HMO status does not invalidate your TA, unless Housing Off serves Prohibition Notice on LL, then Council would have to treat you as homeless.

[raydetinu]

You will have to go to the council and ask them to sort it out. take all the paper work with you.

[*RainbowTears*]

Hi MV,

You do need to take all your paperwork (make copies if you can) & take it to your local Councils Housing office, explain exactly what's gone on & show them the letter from them, that states they deemed it a HMO.

 

You need their advice & support to get this sorted out once & for all.

 

Please let us know how you get.

 

Good luck indeed!

[MV_das]

thanks