Does Consumer Rights Act 2015 apply?

[badz132]

Hi all,

 

Been a while and I find myself on here hoping to get some advice

 

I bought a nearly new Audi from a main dealership last month (15th) on finance (VWFS)

 

I literally drove it from the dealership to the house and that was it until the next day where it "seemed" fine. The day after, I found myself having to email/book in the car for a number of rattles/squeaks - one of which was fairly obvious, another not so but loud enough to record it on the phone.

 

It got seen to the following week and came back with the main noise fixed - the other could not be replicated. Soon as I left, the other one came back along with a few more such as suspension noise/squelch on their ramps etc.

 

Turned back but it was shut so another email went over. I then called, no reply to both.

I got busy but last week finally email again to find the service guy had left the company.

 

I therefore sent an email to the sales guy + his manager outlining some 10 issues with the car - mainly rattles/squeaks

This got sent to the service manager who in fairness has been very polite and has booked it in for this week.

 

In the mean time, I have been just looking at the what if scenario - ie: if it comes back with similar/same/more faults. So what I proposed is to return the car, and I purchase another from their group that is around 4k more.

Hopefully get some dealer contribution in, and I top it up with more deposit money to keep payments the same.

This was rejected and was told that they could only buy the car back which would be around 8k less than the one I proposed to buy.

 

So I guess my question is:

 

1. Do I let them fix and cross my fingers

2. Is there any way to use the Consumer Rights Act 2015 despite it now being past the 30 days (but initial issues reported within the 30 days)

 

While most faults are not detrimental, I just feel the car might have been potentially abused in their possession as a ex-demo car and while I have 3 years warranty ... this could end up being in the dealership more than with me.

 

Appreciate your thoughts

Edited November 19, 2015 by Andyorch
Corrected relevant legislation

[dx100uk]

I'd be getting the finance co involved too.

they are equally responsible.

 

 

dx

[aj84]

Will do

 

Long time ago, I had an issue which led to rejection on another Audi.

I got a replacement soon after which was perfect but all that effort on the first one just is not fresh any more.

 

Should I involve them now or once I get the car back?

 

 

It went in today and following a 30 minute test drive with their master tech, they have at the very least witnessed all but one issue.

It's now in there until it is sorted and I have a loaner from them.

 

I had a chat with the sales guy and he is adamant it could not be just taken back and a new deal made despite the proposed car being more money.

I did just mention that as far as I was aware, given that my issues were reported within 24-48 hours of purchasing the car,

I should be protected under the consumer rights 2015 despite going over the 30 day Audi guarantee by now 3 days.

 

Issue with these lot is always the same

- if you want to book a car in, you have to wait till a loaner is available as the car is part of my job.

 

 

So sometimes you have to go over the 30 day policy -

I don't blame the service guys at all, nor the sales for the faults

- I do blame the sales guys for not even out of goodwill taking it back

and allowing me to get another model for more money.

[badz132]

Just an update

 

I got a call earlier to say that they have identified most if not all issues

Some are fixed, some are still pending. One in particular is behind the passenger front door panel which requires removal, investigation, fix.

I am now in the loan car until at the very least mid-week next week

 

They also found another rattle in the boot which is fixed too

 

I go back to my initial question... am I covered for rejecting the car if I wanted to?

and at what cost?

some issues were reported within 24-48 hours but I am now outside the 30 days since I bought the car ( now 4 days over)

 

ps: apologies for the previous post using another name...it didnt work but suddenly lastpass kicked in and it now seems to work. I'll stick with this one just for consistency

[dx100uk]

I believe you can even if you signed on premises

[Conniff]

... am I covered for rejecting the car if I wanted to?

 

Yes you are. This 30 days is not a cut off, ie; if you don't do it within that time you can't reject.

These amended regulations put a number where it used to say "you have for a short period" which not even the drafter of the regulation understood.

 

I would say the first attempt at curing the problems was a WD-40 fix hoping that would last.

 

Take a letter with you when you go and collect your car telling them that this is the final attempt at repairs and if they return or are still there then you will be rejecting the car for a full refund.

 

Be sure to send that to the finance company as well and best to send it recorded.

 

Who is the finance company and what type of finance is it ??

[badz132]

Thanks Conniff

So are you saying that when I go back to collect it ... at that point if it happens again, I should allow them another chance? Or at that point, should I want to, I should reject it there and then?

I'm assuming based on what research I have been doing on this new bill that it would be under the "Failed repairs After one failed attempt by the retailer to repair or replace a faulty item, you're entitled to ask for a refund or price reduction. "

 

Finance company is VWFS and is a HP over 5 years though in the past, I tend to pay it off earlier (mainly do finance for the discounts)

 

1 payment has gone out so far

[Conniff]

Keep in mind that this car belongs to VWFS and it was them that purchased the car not you.

 

When to reject would have to be your decision. If you really like the car and the family is happy, then give them another go at fixing it. The more attempts they have that fail gives you even more right to reject.

 

As for the service manager being ok, that is because good businesses always make the sales department a separate business and any repairs done to sales cars, before or after sale, have to be paid for the same as any customer.

[badz132]

Thanks again Conniff

I assume your first point is implying that I should be rejecting with VWFS rather than the dealership - Is there a certain address for this?

-Assuming reject = stop driving...what am I supposed to do in terms of travelling to/from work given that is the primary purpose of it?

 

Totally with you on the decision part - I'm in two minds.

On one hand, if the car is fixed and to a point that it feels like a new car then great because at the end of the day, it's not even 6 months old.

On the other hand, my gut is telling me a lot of the issues are down to abuse of the vehicle as an ex-demo. If this is the case, all the 3 years warranty will do is make sure I use it ... a lot.

-And then theres the case of how safe it is.

 

What occurred to me earlier was that as an ex-demo, if a salesman had an accident in it, I'm sure there are ways to get it fixed internally without it being a Cat D for instance. OK this is taking it way out of proportion (I hope)

 

I'll wait their answer - in the mean time, I am armed with the rejection letter if it is an issue after repair.

[badz132]

By the way, complete list of issues at the point of second booking in:

 

List of faults

1. Loud creak as demonstrated on the 21/10 (5 days after purchasing but was reported 24 hours in).

a. Fixed on 22/10

2. Rattling from passenger side on most roads as demonstrated on 21/10.

a. Apparently could not replicate despite showing on the 21/10

b. Took recording on phone to prove and since been heard quite clearly by the senior master tech

3. Driver seat creaking

4. Bluetooth RsAP disconnecting constantly

a. I did point out this is not my phone as I tried two phones but this would be low priority

5. Rear rattle Heard by senior master tech

6. Headlight level feels very low. Almost have to duck or pray for a bump to see in dark lanes.

a. As a comparison, loan car I was given with Xenons does not have this issue

7. Going over ramps has a knocking sound from rear suspension - Heard by senior master tech

a. Loan car has none of these issues

8. Going slowly over ramps and back down produces a squelching noise – like an old car with failing suspension/shocks - Heard by senior master tech

a. Loan car has none of these issues

9. Rattle from seat belt area (driver)

10. Rattle from brake light area (maybe) – centre.

11. Ride itself – Wanders/tramlines a lot. Checked pressures – all ok. Tracking seems fine but speeds >60mph and you really do feel it.

a. In comparison, the loan car has none of these issues

b. Master tech could not find an issue but unless it's the characteristic of the car, none of the others have felt this way including the previous model or the loan car

[Conniff]

Have you done an HPI check ?

[badz132]

No - it came with one in the handover pack that was done 04/08/2015 with the mileage being pretty much to the closest 50 or so at the point of sale.

It's a main dealer and it's one of the things they do on all used cars even if nearly new.

 

States nothing was recorded (Clear & Checked) - but again, I think this would only show recorded damage if it went through the insurance channels...if it was fixed up within their own bodyshop etc and paid by the salesman for instance... I'm sure it would hide it if it was not major enough. (ie> airbags?)

 

This is obviously me in OTT/Panic mode - it was just a thought that had crossed my mind thats all

[Conniff]

That's not ott. It makes sense that if you have sales plus workshop plus body shop, you would get any repairs done at your own cost instead of the huge increase the insurance will add to your premium and the devalue that an insurance marker would make.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Conniff

[badz132]

Just an update

I got a call today - They think it's all sorted

The manager didnt have the report to hand so will go over during the afternoon

 

Only two issues were not deemed as an issue

1. The wandering at higher speeds.

- I guess this could be simply the characteristic of the car on 18" wheels. I've always driven a 19" wheel car as is the loan car I am in. I am looking at purchasing 19 or 20" genuine alloys so this might change it but again, don't want to spend the £2000 on them if I am looking at replacing due to quality

 

2. Lights level - they find its fine so I guess this is a LED "feature" that they are much lower / downwards pointing than xenons or halogen lighting

 

I also reported a b-pillar noise but that was only a few times and could not be replicated.

 

Will update as and when

 

thanks again

[badz132]

Had the call - all done apparently

They've called me in for a test drive but I just can't get enough time off to get in for a test drive and even that... on their terms in regards to timing due to master techs leaving early, lots of traffic in the area by 5pm etc.

 

I've said we can do the swap over (loan/my car) tonight, I'll drive it back home and then to work tomorrow by which time I should be able to report any issues found

[Conniff]

You should do a test drive with one of their mechanics in the passenger seat so any problems can be seen and proved. You would be foolish to take it away on their word alone and then report back another day.

[badz132]

ok I'll try and see if anyone of them can jump in - even if someone junior

Issue is there is no room for movement here

 

Master techs head off @ 5

I work 30 miles away so even if I leave around 4:10/4:15 at the very earliest, I cannot make it to them before they go home and well before the 30mins before they go home for a drive

 

Other option is to wait till Sat but that means holding onto their loan car until then which is becoming to be a bit of a pain driving a manual in London on a daily basis!

 

Lets see how it goes tonight

[Conniff]

Sounds like you have the same opinion as me on auto v manual. I could never go back to a manual car, all that pedal pushing up and down and that lever wiggling around.

Why anyone would drive a manual is beyond me unless of course they have never driven an auto so don't know the pleasure and ease and the added petrol save an auto has.

[badz132]

It's exactly that! I initially swore by manual cars until a Volvo I had went in for it's service and got a auto as a loaner. I never got the manual back and ended up buying the loaner!

Never went back to manual!

 

Picked the A6 up and we went through the points.

On driving back - no noise thankfully! The true test will be tomorrow when I drive to work / back but so far so good.

Then again, the same drive I just did when I first bought the car had the same results so again - tomorrow will be the test

 

A lot of it was clips, some sort of paste/liquid that helps seals and what not.

The wandering was deemed "normal". I'm putting it down to the fatter tyres and smaller alloys when comparing to my previous Audi A6s - something I plan to address tomorrow having had a set of genuine Audi 20" alloys in my watchlist. That money was earmarked for a what if scenario should I have to reject but it's looking like I wont.

[Conniff]

Good luck with the car tomorrow. If all is well, after Christmas have a look around for a specialist/tyre fitter who has the latest tracking equipment, one that can check the caster and camber angles as well as the toe. It will be worth it.

[badz132]

Slight update:

Got the car back minutes last night. Unfortunately, despite leaving an hour earlier, I did not make it on time for a test drive with anyone having just made it there for closing time thanks to the 9 separate roadworks!

 

We had a good chat about the issues where most issues were clips/grease/felt strips related

The knocking in the rear was actually the jack that was not secured. Feel silly for not checking!

 

The drive/tramline the sales manager pointed out was normal. The A5 does it a lot more. I did point out the loan car seemed to be fine but this is possibly down to bigger wheels. I did mention your point and apparently this was checked.

 

I have since bought 20" genuine Audi A6 alloys (Rotor) with brand new tyres. They're straight off a showroom model so all being well, this should sort the ride out albeit I will feel every bump and crack in the road!

 

Thanks again for your help - key test will be on the way back home as this morning was quite straight forward.

 

All in all, the journey back home (1. something miles) and the journey to work this morning - no rattles/creaks!

[Conniff]

Well done - marked settled

[badz132]

Another couple of drives and still ok - I think we can safely call this settled indeed

 

Will report back should anything crop up but for now, thank you for all your help Conniff

[Conniff]

Now look forward to the family trip to Cornwall next summer and enjoy it.

[badz132]

Hi Conniff

 

Guess whats back? :- )

About 2 weeks ago, I emailed the dealer service manager the thumbs up and thanked him but a week (just under ) ago, 2 of the 3 main noises came back.

This is the annoying ticking noise (initially fixed by felt etc), and the clunks from the rear (apparently was the jack that was not secure).

 

The clunks came back first and so I tested it by removing the jack altogether. No go, noise was still there.

Few days later, the ticking also came back

I emailed the service manager straight away, no reply for a couple of days so I emailed again mainly because I had mentioned that I was going to get the rear windows blacked out to OEM spec (and via an Audi approved company) so when they do this task, the noises might just vanish in the process.

But...nothing at all.

 

I also have a sneaky feeling I have now also started to hear the very first issue it went in and was reported within 24 hours of purchasing and that was the creaking from the front everytime you turned. This was apparently down to the cross bar in the engine bay area that was from what I remember too tight.

 

I have notified the manager who wanted more detail for his master tech. This was given and from what I can figure out, it's loud enough for the dash cam to pick up.

 

So where do I stand now?

In finance and usage terms:

The car is now 2 months since I picked it up from the dealership to the date from memory.

And mileage-wise, around 2800 have been covered - 300 of these probably just in road tests by them and me!

 

The money I had put aside for the change of car that was rejected has now been spent (around £2000) on genuine Audi A6 wheels that came off a 2015 new car where the owner wanted to downgrade to something more comfortable. This fixed the ride/handling issues but means that there is no cash in the bucket so to speak.

 

And it has now been in the dealership twice for around 1.5-2 weeks in total not to mention at the time having to take 1 day off for test drives with them because of logistics (across both times)

 

Finally as you know, when I raised the consumer act 2015 at the time within the 30 days, they said i could only trade it back in at a loss of almost £5000.

 

What are the options now?

 

The service manager has left it at "Let me have the conversation and I will let you know how we will resolve."

(with the service master techs)

 

My worry from day 1 has always been:

Is the car fit for purpose (As a car maybe, in terms of all the structural issues...no?)

Is it safe (the clunks, cross bar...does not tell me it is)

Has it been abused by the dealership managers (Either that or it's a lemon out of the factory)

& will the issues be a constant pain in the neck regardless of warranty and fixing (So far this is a yes)

 

Thanks in advance