HFO CAPITAL/services/turnbull CCJ

[DonkeyB]

Yes. She shouldn't have to say too much, hopefully. Just hope the revised WS with Carey has been accepted - though the judge should know about it anyway.

[melmumof3]

yeah im back... check email DB..

[DonkeyB]

Leave to appeal was granted, unfortunately.

 

Just dissecting it with Mel, and will get back to you all with some detail.

 

Please bear in mind that we may now have to keep some critical issues off the forum to protect Mel's case. Today was quite upsetting for her, so please be patient!

[vjohn82]

I have spoken to Mel about this and can give some brief details on what has occurred.

 

1. This was a Directions Hearing for the appeal and NOT a Permission to Appeal Hearing.

 

The Judge was not hostile to the extent that he disagreed with evidence from Mel or any of the Witness Statements she has been helped with; the Judge was hostile to the fact that Mel attempted to ask questions that should have been reserved for the appeal hearing.

 

This is an important clarification to make because the Judge was not there to rule on anything.

 

2. The Judge appears to have made an order allowing further evidence to be submitted by HFO Services. However, this order has been made with the condition of "non-disclosure". The documents which they wish to submit are, apparently, a number of "intra-group agreements".

 

3. What Mel should have asked for in his hearing was the Deed of Assignment from the OC to the assignee; I am unsure at this stage of the process for demanding this document be disclosed but I am sure that it can be requested under some sort of CPR for disclosure.

 

4. Mel was worried at first about the hearing and its outcome but I have tried to alleviate those worries; the case is still VERY sound and the appeal offers the opportunity for the Affidavit I wrote to be referred to in court which completely destroys any argument HFO Services want to make about the assignment; it demonstrates their case to be disingenuous.

 

That's all I can offer for now people... lots of reasons to be very hopeful.

 

I might also add that they sent a barrister to represent the Claimant who goes by the name of Helen Turnbull. Not heard of her before but the only thing she appears to have "won" is the right for the next set of evidence to be confidential; big deal... errrr not.

[gh2008]

This may have been discussed before - or it may just be too controversial

 

Q. Is there a time where the contents of a thread become so sensitive that it is better to take that thread into a 'closed group' where it can be discussed 'in relative confidence' and then once settled the thread can be reopened for reference.

 

I realise that things can be discussed by email or pm, but that is cumbersome and yes you could go to a 3rd party private forum/conference provider, but then the valuable resource of the thoughts and processes would be lost.

[vjohn82]

Leave to appeal was granted, unfortunately

 

It appears leave for appeal was granted some time ago DB... either a cock up in paperwork or something else has happened. This was just a directions hearing for the appeal.

 

Bizarre but that's what we are left with. I would have thought permission to appeal would have had a hearing? But hey, still good news. No rejection of Mel's Witness Statement and no rejection of the affidavit

[humbleman]

gh2008

 

I was about to say the same.

[humbleman]

What happened to the notion that appeals are based on point of law and no new evidence is permitted.

[DonkeyB]

Time for some heavy work and maybe some heavyweight representation for Mel!

[vjohn82]

What happened to the notion that appeals are based on point of law and no new evidence is permitted.

 

I was under the impression that no new evidence can be submitted but I cannot find anything in the CPR that forbids it as long as the evidence was inferred in the original hearing.

 

I suspect the barrister has pulled a rabbit out of the hat and disputed the CP2 document as being irrelevant and is thus prepared to reveal the "true" documents to the court. Note however that they want this to be done under a "confidentiality clause"... they have something to hide I'm sure otherwise they would not need to refer to it.

 

However, Mel is entitled to either legal representation or assistance from a friend (either family member/association/pro bono rep/cab etc) in the course of the proceedings. Therefore the documents, while privileged, can be read by persons seeking to assist Mel.

 

The Judge will have to clarify the restriction of the clause in the order he makes simply so Mel knows what position she is in. I suspect that it will simply restrict Mel to posting the document on the forum.

 

Time for some heavy work and maybe some heavyweight representation for Mel!

 

We have the bones... need the meat!

 

Representation would be wise for the appeal... but I think a well seasoned CAGGER with experience of hearings might be tempted to go along in a representative capacity to ensure that justice prevails ;-)

[DonkeyB]

Mel, I hope you're feeling better about all this now. It can be a pain (and painful), but your evidence is still solid. All they have done is get an appeal in relation to the assignment - the Carey case should be a killer.

[humbleman]

. Note however that they want this to be done under a "confidentiality clause"... they have something to hide I'm sure otherwise they would not need to refer to it.

 

 

I suspect this might be to do with the revenue, in case they find out then, they might get clobbered for creative accounting. I am not for a second doubting that HFO have not complied with the necessary statutory obligations.

[melmumof3]

feeling a little better DB thanks... just need to grow a pair, and buy a pair of size 9's!..

gonna get some thoughts down on paper..

[vjohn82]

Wonder if they're sisters, Alice and Helen? Both went to Oxford...

 

If so, and not suggesting there is a relationship, if indeed this is who attended, but if...

 

...would she need to declare any conflict of interest?

 

No real information on her DB... shame that they ALL can't have their pictures on display like Alasdair Turnbull's on the Validor site

 

http://validorcapital.com/managementteamvalidor.html

 

I like to call it... "The Freak Show" mwahhahahahaaa

[patrickq1]

dont worry mel GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT just bide your time by the time alice and helena of the droids get into the courtroom they will have to answer a load of questions....

Edited February 9, 2010 by patrickq1

[MandM]

Just catching up - had to log off lunchtime when you'd not long been back.

 

Keep smiling Mel. You'll get there.

 

xxxx

 

M

[Rhia]

3. What Mel should have asked for in his hearing was the Deed of Assignment from the OC to the assignee; I am unsure at this stage of the process for demanding this document be disclosed but I am sure that it can be requested under some sort of CPR for disclosure.

 

Yes! Yes! Yes! I think I have urged this before. If you read my Cabot thread this is what saw them off. MBNA assigned their debt to Ireland and it is a "tax efficiency" i.e [problem]. This knowledge has also stuffed Cabot in at least three cases by CAGers whereby each wrote an witness statement for the other.

 

You can request it under CPR18.

 

Ireland is simply offshore and so it has not been correctly assigned to the UK and under UK law. And WTF is going on with HFOs companies they're up and down like a tart's drawers? This is one mighty dodgy set up and OFT and I think HM Customs and Excise would take a very lively interest in them.

As for the lady barrister who won the "mooting" prize look girl I know you have to make a living but surely there are more appetising clients to empower with your top class education.

 

Mel hang on in there you are doing very well.

[MandM]

Yes! Yes! Yes! I think I have urged this before. If you read my Cabot thread this is what saw them off. MBNA assigned their debt to Ireland and it is a "tax efficiency" i.e [problem]. This knowledge has also stuffed Cabot in at least three cases by CAGers whereby each wrote an witness statement for the other.

 

 

 

Hi Rhia, you have a few Cabot threads. Can you pop a link up.

 

Thanks,

 

M

[DonkeyB]

As for the lady barrister who won the "mooting" prize look girl I know you have to make a living but surely there are more appetising clients to empower with your top class education.

 

... but there's a possibility, given the surname, that blood is thicker than water...

[Rhia]

LOL! Do you think she shares the same gene pool with "Call Me Al"?

 

It appears she is also available for pro bono work.

 

Mel this is the thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/120057-cabot-test-case.html

[DonkeyB]

Mel, have you had any news re a date for the case?

[DonkeyB]

Rather keen to get stick into this one, aren't we VJ? I'm sure Docman, Broken Arrow and Patrick (plus hordes of others) are also keen for a bit of sparring.

[melmumof3]

hi guys, no news as yet.. still waiting for them to send the relevant documents...:S

[melmumof3]

oh i have a date!!.. sorry didnt read properly... its beginning of may

[broken arrow]

Another discontinue?