@vodafoneuk Vodafone nuisance calls #9260167 - i'm after obtaining an injunction order

[BazzaS]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?229816-Crapital-1-Subject-Access-Request-sent-no-reply.

 

That thread shows I can claim exemplary damages despite your insistence that I can not.

 

 

 

Quoted from: http://uk.practicallaw.com/7-107-7085

 

The money Vodafone makes from its wrongdoing, ie - failing to adhere to Data Protection Act in relation to my Subject Access Request.

I sent a cheque for £10 and requested all data. This was to include all unsolicited telephone calls and texts.

It would have cost vodafone a lot more than £10 to supply me with this information, to retrieve all phone calls etc.

So vodafone use what I believe to be a nasty tactic. Vodafone delay SAR. They then rely on their own Vodafone policy stating that their policy must be followed and totally disregarding UK law.

 

It is my opinion that Vodafone in their course of action have calculated that the money made from their wrongdoing (failing to adhere to UK law) will probably exceed the damages payable. To explore this further, the money Vodafone made or saved in their failure to provide me with my SAR far outweighs the small amount of damages that would be awarded to me by a Judge due to their faliure to provide me with SAR. The Data Protection Act makes provision for damages/ compensation in respect of damage or damage and distress.

It is my opinion that I was not distressed and suffered no damage due to Vodafone ignoring the law in this regard.

It is also my opinion that Vodafone are aware of the provision in Data Protection Act in relation to compensation being for damage or distress only.... And as I was neither caused damage or distress by Vodafone failing to adhere to the law, then it is my opinion that Vodafone have not provided me with SAR and rely on the fact that they believe their own policy is primary to UK law.

 

Therefore, as very little can be claimed in respect of damage and distress (provisions under DPA), it is my opinion that Vodafone have calculated that the money they would save or make from their wrongdoing exceeds that of any damages payable under DPA.

 

As Vodafone have saved themselves money by not providing me with SAR knowing that very little compensation would be paid in respect of damage or damage and distress, in addition to preventing me obtaining what is legally mine to assist me with claim for harassment, - it is my opinion that Vodafone have infact calculated that their wrongdoing (failing to provide SAR) and the money they have saved by not having to retrieve phone calls and other data in addition to failing to provide me with a complete list of unsolicited calls for my claim of harassment, meets the criteria of a claim for exemplary damages.

 

For a vodafone employee to have to work on my SAR, spend time finding and transferring all of my calls to a disk would take a considerable amount of time, bearing in mind that I have been VERY persistent in calling them requesting they stop etc etc etc.... What would this cost vodafone??? A lot more than any compensation made under DPA!

 

As stated in above quote, exemplary damages are only paid in precise circumstances, of which I have explained why I believe Vodafone course of action has met a precise circumstance.

 

The thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?229816-Crapital-1-Subject-Access-Request-sent-no-reply

Shows only that ScarletPimpernel advised an LBA warning exemplary damages would be claimed. It doesn't show that that LBA was sent, that exemplary damages were provided in response to the LBA, or that a court would entertain the notion.

 

So, why are you not claiming for exemplary damages then, if you believe (against advice) that you can?.

 

Do you recall where I said "don't claim for exemplary damages" (16th & 17th May) and you ignored (or forgot) that, and then a member of site team said (26th June):

Don't talk about exemplary damages. The UK does not really have exemplary damages except in a few very exceptional cases in very different contexts. Compensation for breach of the DPA is governed by section 13 of the DPA.

 

as for:

exemplary damages are only paid in precise circumstances, of which I have explained why I believe Vodafone course of action has met a precise circumstance

 

Voda's course of action is indeed a precise set of circumstances (any situation is, if described precisely.....) BUT just not one where you stand any chance of restitutionary damages (see previous postings) let alone exemplary damages.

 

Let us look at where exemplary damages are payable:

Since you've cited : Rookes v Barnard (No 1), a House of Lords authority, let us look at the comments by Devlin LJ.

 

"The first category is oppressive, arbitrary or unconstitutional action by the servants of the government. I should not extend this category—I say this with particular reference to the facts of this case—to oppressive action by private corporations or individuals."

 

So, as Voda aren't an emanation of the state, this clearly cant apply to Voda.

 

Moving to the second category, his Lordship noted: "Where a Defendant with a cynical disregard for a Plaintiff's rights has calculated that the money to be made out of his wrong-doing will probably exceed the damages at risk"

 

You'd have to show Voda had made that calculation (how are you going to do that)?)

That they had done so with "cynical disregard" (how are you going to do that?)

and regarding "the money to be made" (n.b. money made .... not "money not spent") .....

since you don't know how much it costs Voda to get the SAR information ..... you'll never show this, even if you could persuade the court it was "money made" rather than "money not spent".

 

[irony ON]

why not FOI them for this info?

why not SAR them for this info?

why not call them and ask?

[irony OFF]

 

You say it is "In my opinion", but do you think you'll be able to persuade the court to the civil standard of proof?.

Evidence: and I suggest you don't have the evidence to persuade the court.

Evidence: key to a successful case - Remember when you didn't take that key piece of evidence into court, failed to prevent that repossession (at the 11th hour), and (based on your CAG posts) cost yourself £40k?. Evidence to support a premise is way more persuasive than "because I say so" or "in my opinion", and you'll need to supply it to bolster such a bold move as claiming exemplary damages .....

 

There is a 3rd grounds, where :" "exemplary damages are expressly authorised by statute."

I can only think of one statute where this applies, and it isn't applicable for your situation.

 

So, go ahead if you want. You don't have to take mine (and steampowered)'s advice not to go for exemplary damages.

Revert (if you wish) to your original (hopeless - as in it'll give you no hope of success) N1......

It'll give Voda's legal team a chortle, and give the judge either a damn good laugh, or, apoplexy….

 

I’m awestruck by the genius in which you attempt to shoe-horn your situation so that grounds 2 might apply. So as to be able to go down that route you note that : "It is my opinion that I was not distressed and suffered no damage due to Vodafone ignoring the law in this regard.”

 

Lesser mortals would think : “Hey, if I say that, that scuppers any claim for damages!”, but no doubt you had already considered (and disregarded) that concern. No doubt you’ll make that statement a prominent one in your claim.

 

Looks like (if using that tactic, making that statement) you can claim for exemplary damages or conventional damages, but not both.

 

So, having carefully considered the advice you’ve had to date, you are all set to file?

When are you issuing your claim for exemplary damages?

Will you be using CPR Part 7 or Part 8?

 

(Note to self: since the OP didn't use just the CAG template SAR letter, but took "bits from here" and "bits from there", we don't know their letter was even compliant. They say it was, but shouldn't they let CAG have sight of it to be sure?)

 

What a shame there is no public access to small claims track cases.

I’d love to attend to watch your legal genius at work….. (Assuming your case doesn’t get struck out first). If you are that confident of going for exemplary damages, how about allowing someone from CAG to attend as a McKenzie Friend? They can even say "here: remember to take your evidence with you into court" before you go into the hearing .....

 

After all, CAG is a self-help site. You've had lots of advice and (apparently) chosen to ignore much of it, which is your absolute right. I'm just not sure you are actually helping yourself.

[p3t3r]

I have explained why I believe I can potentially claim exemplary damages and have provided a link to another thread on CAG that shows the exact same thing, - to claim for exemplary damages for failed SAR.

I have given detail as to why I believe I can claim exemplary damages for failed SAR.

 

Money made = same as money not spent. Vodafone made money by not complying with my SAR, they saved on their staff costs in collating all data for SAR. They were aware that the damages / compensation under data protection act is significantly lower than the money they would have had to effectively spend (waste) in respect of staff wages to supply SAR.

 

All you have said is that I can't claim this. What are your reasons why I can't claim? A site team member has said in another thread (linked above) that it is possible to claim for exemplary damages in the case of a company failing to provide SAR.

[BazzaS]

I have explained why I believe I can potentially claim exemplary damages and have provided a link to another thread on CAG that shows the exact same thing, - to claim for exemplary damages for failed SAR.

I have given detail as to why I believe I can claim exemplary damages for failed SAR.

 

Money made = same as money not spent. Vodafone made money by not complying with my SAR, they saved on their staff costs in collating all data for SAR. They were aware that the damages / compensation under data protection act is significantly lower than the money they would have had to effectively spend (waste) in respect of staff wages to supply SAR.

 

All you have said is that I can't claim this. What are your reasons why I can't claim? A site team member has said in another thread (linked above) that it is possible to claim for exemplary damages in the case of a company failing to provide SAR.

 

The LBA cited there also starts off "Dear Morons".

Not advisable since it may have to be relied on in court .....

 

Time to mitigate losses (mine!).

 

I've answered this (& more!) above. Me repeating myself is unlikely to persuade you.

If I've not persuaded you : go do what you feel is right. (However, all you seem to have done so far is talk about doing it - when are you actually going to do it?)

 

We still don't know if the OP's SAR was properly formatted / compliant. It could be that Voda will say : "didn't comply as request not valid." which will let them off the hook.

OP apparently created their own SAR letter, rather than just using the CAG template.

 

OP : You'll want to make sure your claim covers all relevant aspects for best chance of success.

 

So, When are you issuing your claim?

Are you claiming for exemplary damages or not?

What monetary value claim are you making, and on what grounds?

Part 7 or Part 8?.

Surely you know these by now?

 

I'll update on these when they get to the top of my "to do" list ....... If CAGgers (other than P3t3r) need an urgent update on these, drop me a PM with a link to your thread & I'll do my best to update you.

[p3t3r]

I'll update on these when they get to the top of my "to do" list ....... If CAGgers (other than P3t3r) need an urgent update on these, drop me a PM with a link to your thread & I'll do my best to update you.

hopefully you will update without being arrogant, condescending and pedantic.

 

Due to your behaviour directed at me in other threads, (condescending, arrogant, pedantic) I will now ignore any further contact from you.

[BazzaS]

hopefully you will update without being arrogant, condescending and pedantic.

 

Due to your behaviour directed at me in other threads, (condescending, arrogant, pedantic) I will now ignore any further contact from you.

 

You keep saying you'll ignore me ..... nonetheless you can't resist the temptation to try to sneak a reply in ..... so when are you going to do what you threaten?

(That is, BOTH

a) ignore me [feel free!], and

b) get on and issue your claim.)

 

I'll certainly update others who request it (and point me to their existing thread). Hopefully they'll actually be able to follow advice (from me AND other CAG'gers), so they won't keep repeating the same "schoolboy errors" and "arguing black is white" ; thus they won't need those repeated errors pointed out to them (let alone: more than once).

 

As for pedantry: cases can turn on details, such as the placement of a comma.

e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/woman-let-off-parking-ticket-because-it-was-missing-a-comma-10363134.html

Thus: is pedantry such a bad thing in preparing for legal cases?

 

If they want to increase their chances of success at court: should people want attention to detail / pedantry, or your slapdash inaccuracy?

 

You seem to be avoiding

a) posting for review your (most recent) LBA (how many did you send in the end?) [why avoid posting it? Voda have a copy, so you don't need to keep it secret. If it isn't compliant : your case regarding the SAR is 'dead in the water']

b) answering regarding:

"So, When are you issuing your claim?

Are you claiming for exemplary damages or not?

What monetary value claim are you making, and on what grounds?

Part 7 or Part 8?.

Surely you know these by now?"

 

Were you hoping to bluff Voda into giving in based purely on your bluster? Not working so far, is it?.

[p3t3r]

Since Civil Justice Centre can not give me a definitive answer as to what form I need to proceed for SAR, can anyone advise me on what forms I need for this?

 

If there is no definitive answer in relation to what forms I need, then I will revert back to harassment claim with N1 form. Although as advised earlier in thread, I would be in a better position if i had the data to hand (my SAR).

[BazzaS]

Since Civil Justice Centre can not give me a definitive answer as to what form I need to proceed for SAR, can anyone advise me on what forms I need for this?

 

If there is no definitive answer in relation to what forms I need, then I will revert back to harassment claim with N1 form. Although as advised earlier in thread, I would be in a better position if i had the data to hand (my SAR).

 

8 weeks on : when is your court date?

[citizenB]

Since Civil Justice Centre can not give me a definitive answer as to what form I need to proceed for SAR, can anyone advise me on what forms I need for this?

 

If there is no definitive answer in relation to what forms I need, then I will revert back to harassment claim with N1 form. Although as advised earlier in thread, I would be in a better position if i had the data to hand (my SAR).

 

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

 

Are you wanting to know how to make a claim in respect of Vodafone not complying with their obligation to provide your SAR data ?

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?208966-Me-and-Them-SAR-non-compliance-claim.-**SUCCESS**&p=2598025&viewfull=1#post2598025

 

Post # 14 onwards shows a claim from start to finish in respect of non compliance of data.

[BazzaS]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?208966-Me-and-Them-SAR-non-compliance-claim.-**SUCCESS**&p=2598025&viewfull=1#post2598025

 

Post # 14 onwards shows a claim from start to finish in respect of non compliance of data.

 

And steampowered provided for the OP a draft N1 (I say draft, but it was pretty much set and ready to go!) back on 26th June 2015 ....

[p3t3r]

The N1 is not the correct form as I was told this by Civil Justice Centre

[BazzaS]

The N1 is not the correct form as I was told this by Civil Justice Centre

 

Or, rather : you claim one person told you so (but equally : we don't know what you said / did that apparently led them to tell you that).

 

So, 8 weeks on, you are still ignoring the good advice you have had here?

 

That is (leaving aside you ignoring advice not to phone Voda):

You've had a draft N1 given to you "on a plate".

You've had the differences between Part 7 and 8 explained.

Now, another poster has highlighted a thread where (wait for it!) an N1 (& part 7) was used to force compliance with a SAR

Yet, you still seem unconvinced.

 

What, if anything, have you actually done to move things forward?

 

If there is no definitive answer in relation to what forms I need, then I will revert back to harassment claim with N1 form.

 

Since the SAR isn't essential to your "harassment" claim (since you said you had plenty of evidence anyway) ..... If you weren't convinced re: the way to persue the SAR related claim, you'd said you would go ahead with the "harassment" claim ....

Are you STILL just talking about what you MIGHT do, or are you actually going to issue a claim (since you've been talking about it since February .....)

 

So, when is your court date?

[BazzaS]

6 months on .... No sign of any progress.

All bark / bluster, but when it comes down to it : just a waste of everyone's time / efforts??