Transport Investigations Limited - Advice needed please

[LiamNotBD]

Hello,

 

I have read with interest postings re: Transport Investigations Limited.

 

I unfortunately am having to deal with them currently and am after any advice fellow consumer action group members may be able to offer.

 

In summary, I use a mobile train ticket app which entails purchasing upfront a bundle of 12 journeys in a package. So they are pre-paid tickets which require individual ticket activation before use.

 

On the particular day in question I genuinely forgot to activate a ticket until arriving at my destination. This may also have been down to the app being very tempremental and frequently crashing before I can perform the activation (a problem I have reported to the TOC). So this is a case of late activation of a pre-paid ticket.

 

Once I had activated my ticket upon arrival at my destination I used the app which generates a bar code and I showed this bar code to the automated barrier scanner which alllowed me to exit the station at my destination proving my ticket valid. This was in full view of TOC staff.

 

I was stopped by a RPO working for Transport Investigations Limited once I had passed through the barrier and had the activation time of my ticket checked which showed it had been activated after the train I was travelling on had arrived at my destination.

 

I was questioned about this and allegedy accused of having travelled without a valid ticket, despite other passengers queuing up to buy tickets at their destination (ie paying at the end of their journey, thereby geuinely travelling without a valid ticket,which seems to be tolerated, surely you can only have one rule either you must have a ticket before boarding a train or not (pay on the train is allowed or pay at the other end))

 

I am being pursued by Transport Investigations Limited now alleging I travelled with intent to avoid paying a fare.

 

I dont know if anyone else has had experience using these mobile app based tickets. I have used the app since March 2014 without incident and prior to that purchased paper weekly tickets and have done so since early 2008.

 

They have sent a letter now saying an application may now be made to issue a court summons.

 

I have replied in full with my version of events in writing, but the letter I have had back, in common with experiences of eveyone else on here, has none of my points/questions addressed.

 

I now have a week to reply before they take it further, I obviously wish to avoid court and would rather accept an administrative settlement. Indeed the TOC policy I have checked says that court is only used as a very last resort the offer of paying the fare (which I of course paid upfront weeks before so they have my money) plus an admin fee is the first option.

 

I would welcome any advice fellow commuters could offer, this has been causing me some stress as I attempt to recover from a recent hospitialisation for surgery.

Edited December 18, 2014 by LiamNotBD

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm sorry you haven't had any replies so far. Not everyone here will know about the app you use.

 

As you've heard from TfL and presumable have the name of the person dealing with your case, I'm wondering if it might be worth ringing them. Hopefully some of the experts will be along with pointers on how to handle this.

 

My best, HB

[rebel11]

Hi LiamNotBD

 

What's the name of the rail company?

[LiamNotBD]

Hi rebel11,

 

The TOC is ATW

 

Is that significant ?

[Old-CodJA]

For anyone not familiar with these tickets this will help, I have highlighted Condition 2 as this is the relevant part.

 

These terms & conditions are accepted by the purchaser when applying for the tickets.

 

Anyone who does not comply with condition 2 boards a train without being able to show a valid ticket because the ticket is not valid for travel until it has been activated.

 

Arriva Trains Wales Multi-Flex tickets - Terms and Conditions

 

The tickets purchased through the app will have some special conditions, in addition to the standard conditions applicable to all rail tickets:

 

1. Once purchased the tickets cannot be refunded.
   
2. Tickets must be activated prior to travel. Activation time is shown on each ticket and will be checked by the ticket checking staff.
   
3. Once an individual ticket has been activated for use it cannot be deactivated.
   
4. Individual tickets are only valid for 3 hours once activated.
   
5. Tickets are only valid for journeys between two stations on the Cardiff and Valleys rail network (as defined above).
   
6. Tickets can only be used in the direction shown.
   
7. There is no requirement to complete outward and return travel on the same day, but unactivated tickets expire 3 months after purchase.
   
8. It is your responsibility to ensure your smartphone is charged and working. The ticket on your smartphone should always be available to be shown on request and to pass through ticket barriers. In the event of battery or smartphone failure you will be required to purchase a new ticket.
   
9. Please note: Arriva Trains Wales cannot guarantee and is not responsible for the availability or quality of mobile phone provider signals in or around its stations or on its trains.
   
10. The 50% saving promotion is a time limited offer only available for purchase between 24/11/14 and 24/12/14
    

[rebel11]

Hi LiamNotBD

 

No, it's not significant, but if you want to complain about the technology not working, then complain to the CEO. It's a totally separate matter to 'travelling without a valid ticket' which they have accused you of.

 

You can now consider writing to the company as you have the reference number, in your letter quote the Ref Number on the letter. An example of a letter can be found in post no.18 in the link below. Amend it accordingly so you quote the correct railway regulation in the letter and that applies to your case. Don't copy the letter.Your letter needs to have more substance and be personalized to your particular case. Convey that you regret your actions and are apologetic as you do in your initial post. Also send photocopies of your previous season ticket purchases as proof that you pay and abide by railway regulations, this is very important. Also any other mitigating cirumstances, i.e. recovering from a recent hospitialisation for surgery. Send it Recorded Delivery.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk...ly-travel-card

 

If you want to complain about the technology (a totally separate issue), write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened, how they have let you down and what you want them to do.

 

Send it to:-

 

Mr Ian Bullock

Managing Director

Arriva Trains Wales

Ian.Bullock@arrivatw.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

Hi rebel11,

 

The TOC is ATW

 

Is that significant ?

[Old-CodJA]

The OP may always write to ATW as you suggest and certainly loses nothing by doing so rebel, but I guess that ATW may refer back to those T&Cs.

 

Condition 9 seems to have particular relevance

 

9. Please note: Arriva Trains Wales cannot guarantee and is not responsible for the availability or quality of mobile phone provider signals in or around its stations or on its trains.

[LiamNotBD]

Hi Old-CodJA,

 

The app does not require the device to have nework access when activating tickets....only when purchasing them.

 

However the app needs to be stable to activate and very frequently it crashes while attempting to use it, I have reported this problem to the TOC.

[LiamNotBD]

that should read network NOT nework sorry !

[rebel11]

Hi Old-CodJA

 

Just because it's in their T & C's doesn't mean it's not 'unfair'.

 

The OP may always write to ATW as you suggest and certainly loses nothing by doing so rebel, but I guess that ATW may refer back to those T&Cs.

 

Condition 9 seems to have particular relevance

 

9. Please note: Arriva Trains Wales cannot guarantee and is not responsible for the availability or quality of mobile phone provider signals in or around its stations or on its trains.

[LiamNotBD]

I should like to add that I do not have previous tickets as I have not purchased any paper tickets (aside from the odd daily) since I started using mobile ticket apps...and I always destroy paper tickets once they have been used and are therefore no longer valid. I certainly would not keep paper tickets going back to 2008.

 

I have a history of old used tickets within the app, but nothing I can send them as suggested be rebel11.

 

I would like to be confident I could settle this out of court by means of an administrative settlement without this matter hanging over me over Christmas...though I guess I am not going to get a decision by then.

 

Can anyone reassure me how likely I would be to receive this option ?

 

I have had legal advice through my union

[rebel11]

Hi LiamNotBD

 

Can you not print them off?, 'I have a history of old used tickets within the app,'.

 

When you send your letter, they will hopefully give your letter full consideration, but ultimately it is up to them how they wish to proceed on all the information they have.

 

What you need to do is present the best case possible so they give it full consideration and are lenient.

 

Also worrying over Christmas really can't effect matters, it's just a waste of energy.

 

This might be helpful:-

 

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/RevenueEnforcementPolicy/

 

I should like to add that I do not have previous tickets as I have not purchased any paper tickets (aside from the odd daily) since I started using mobile ticket apps...and I always destroy paper tickets once they have been used and are therefore no longer valid. I certainly would not keep paper tickets going back to 2008.

 

I have a history of old used tickets within the app, but nothing I can send them as suggested be rebel11.

 

I would like to be confident I could settle this out of court by means of an administrative settlement without this matter hanging over me over Christmas...though I guess I am not going to get a decision by then.

 

Can anyone reassure me how likely I would be to receive this option ?

 

I have had legal advice through my union

[LiamNotBD]

Thank you rebel11,

 

I may be able to print or take screen shots of previously used tickets....

 

So in summary (as I need to do this tomorrow morning) I need to write in reply to Transport Investigations Limited latest letter with my apologies (should I also write to the TOC ?), explaining problems with the stability of the app also.

 

I have seen the ATW revenue protection policy webpage you sent but thank you for that I think it is relevant

 

Basically apologise say it won't happen again and provide proof of previous correct use of the mobile tickets ....anything else I should include ?

 

Is there a template letter I can base mine on ? I could not find it in the thread you quoted earlier

 

I am really very grateful for you advice

 

My legal advice was that no where in the terms and conditions does it mention activating before travel in the act under which they are alleging I contravene S.5.3.a Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

I think the fact this is a mobile ticket app which I did activate before completing my journey (leaving the destination station) I think is enough of a mitigating circumstance to warrant not taking this case to court. I did acitvate but at the wrong point in my journey.

[Old-CodJA]

Hi Old-CodJA

 

Just because it's in their T & C's doesn't mean it's not 'unfair'.

 

 

 

9. Please note: Arriva Trains Wales cannot guarantee and is not responsible for the availability or quality of mobile phone provider signals in or around its stations or on its trains.

 

All that the TOC is saying in this instance is that they 'cannot be held responsible for the quality of another provider's service'.

 

 

That is not an unfair condition.

[firstclassx]

You should activate the ticket before boarding your train.

 

If it doesn't activate for whatever reason, you are liable to obtain a valid ticket prior to departure, if facilities (ticket office/machine) are available, or seek out the conductor to obtain one.

 

The app may well have "bugs", but unfortunately, ATW don't manufacture smartphones, so it is just as likely that your mobile phone has a bug, which means the app plays up, rather than the app being defective.

 

The bottom line is that you did travel without a valid ticket for your journey, which is contrary to the Railway Byelaws.

 

Just my suspicions, but I suspect if the barriers hadn't of been turned on, and/or RPIs not been present, that the ticket would never have been activated, with you walking straight out. Funny how it activated perfectly fine at Cardiff when you found the barriers were on, but not beforehand!

By doing so, you would obviously have been able to use that unactivated ticket for a different journey another time.

[rebel11]

Old-CodJA, my reference to 'unfairness' is that, if this fails it's the customers responsibility, if that fails it's down to the customer, if the 'app' (as firstclassx states) fails it down to the customer, the TOC take no responsibilty whatsoever.

 

'The app may well have "bugs", but unfortunately, ATW don't manufacture smartphones, so it is just as likely that your mobile phone has a bug, which means the app plays up, rather than the app being defective.'

 

 

 

 

9. Please note: Arriva Trains Wales cannot guarantee and is not responsible for the availability or quality of mobile phone provider signals in or around its stations or on its trains.

 

All that the TOC is saying in this instance is that they 'cannot be held responsible for the quality of another provider's service'.

 

 

That is not an unfair condition.

[rebel11]

What you need to do is read post (6), the link provides the format and what you should say in the letter. When you start arguing your case, but then wanting them not to proceed, you start eroding any desire they have to be lenient and allow an out of court settlement.

 

Your mitigating circumstances are that 'recovering from a recent hospitialisation for surgery'. If you can send proof, a Doctors letter etc, that would help your case.

 

Thank you rebel11,

 

I may be able to print or take screen shots of previously used tickets....

 

So in summary (as I need to do this tomorrow morning) I need to write in reply to Transport Investigations Limited latest letter with my apologies (should I also write to the TOC ?), explaining problems with the stability of the app also.

 

I have seen the ATW revenue protection policy webpage you sent but thank you for that I think it is relevant

 

Basically apologise say it won't happen again and provide proof of previous correct use of the mobile tickets ....anything else I should include ?

 

Is there a template letter I can base mine on ? I could not find it in the thread you quoted earlier

 

I am really very grateful for you advice

 

My legal advice was that no where in the terms and conditions does it mention activating before travel in the act under which they are alleging I contravene S.5.3.a Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

I think the fact this is a mobile ticket app which I did activate before completing my journey (leaving the destination station) I think is enough of a mitigating circumstance to warrant not taking this case to court. I did acitvate but at the wrong point in my journey.

[LiamNotBD]

Hello

 

I have today written a letter back to Transport Investigations Limited

 

I will send it tomorrow recorded delivery as suggested by rebel11 should I also send a copy of the letter personalised/amended appropriately to the TOC ? If so, to who ? the managing director ?

 

 

 

Should I also send a letter (or email) to the TOC managing director as suggested by

[rebel11]

Concentrate on resolving the main issue, so only send the letter to Transport Investigations Limited at the moment, wait for them to respond.

 

Hello

 

I have today written a letter back to Transport Investigations Limited

 

I will send it tomorrow recorded delivery as suggested by rebel11 should I also send a copy of the letter personalised/amended appropriately to the TOC ? If so, to who ? the managing director ?

 

 

 

Should I also send a letter (or email) to the TOC managing director as suggested by