Accepted [unknown] Fake paper railcard from stranger - got caught!! **SETTLED OUT OF COURT**

[BazzaS]

With all due respect, seeing other people in similar situations as mine, getting out of court for the same efforts as mine, while I am still being prosecuted - seems unfair to me.

 

Who has? You may need to give examples.

 

Sammy? Sammy didn't have a ticket, and was fare evading.

Sammy didn't have a forged ticket (thus, even though you may not have known yours was forged, the circumstances AREN'T similar).

[Bamboo_fighter]

Who has? You may need to give examples.

 

Sammy? Sammy didn't have a ticket, and was fare evading.

Sammy didn't have a forged ticket (thus, even though you may not have known yours was forged, the circumstances AREN'T similar).

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...91#post4348691

In this case, a person intentionally used child's ticket. I know it's not the same situation, but I really didn't know that ticket was counterfeit. It's all based on their personal assumptions, not the real evidence. Prosecutor said "I don't think someone has given it to you that early in the morning". Well, ask anyone travelling in the tube and they will tell that people tend to share their tickets with others, once they have no use for them, therefore i disregard his accusation.

 

He also said that my Oyster's balance expired a day before that counterfeit ticket was valid from. I definitely remember it was not like that.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Bamboo_fighter

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I think at this stage it's worth remembering that contrition and being apologetic are needed if you want to settle.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

With all due respect, seeing other people in similar situations as mine, getting out of court for the same efforts as mine, while I am still being prosecuted - seems unfair to me.

 

Yet, when asked for details:

 

I know it's not the same situation, but I really didn't know that ticket was counterfeit.

 

You can't claim "unfairness, as it is the same situation"

and then give examples of "the same situation" that you then admit you know the situations aren't the same.

 

If wishing to cite their policies at them, you really need to ensure you are on firm ground, as you are appearing desperate rather than remorseful.

[Bamboo_fighter]

Yet, when asked for details:

 

 

You can't claim "unfairness, as it is the same situation"

and then give examples of "the same situation" that you then admit you know the situations aren't the same.

 

If wishing to cite their policies at them, you really need to ensure you are on firm ground, as you are appearing desperate rather than remorseful.

 

BazzaS,

 

I did not say that it is the same situation, I was saying it is similar situation.

 

And yes, you are right, I am desperate, but remorseful as well.

 

I want to counter their unwilligness to accept my facts regarding the incident. First of all, I want them to explain, based on what evidence, they refuse to believe someone gave this card to me at that time of the day, as such occurence is quite common in London. Secondly, I want to counter their assumption that I used this card on purpose, based on that my last top up happened a day before that counterfeit ticket was valid from. As far as I remember, this gap was at least 3 days.

[firstclassx]

You are missing the fundamental procedure of justice in our country!

 

TfL (the prosecution) allege that you have committed an offence or offences.

You (the defendant) denies or disputes those allegations.

 

A judge, or multiple magistrates will listen to both sides and reach their own conclusions based on the evidence.

 

You can protest all you like, but TfL clearly aren't interested in anything more that you want to say. They are experienced, using tried and tested legislation and good, capable prosecutors and case workers. They believe that their approach is the best way forwards, and you cannot change that.

 

No other advice can be given or added to what has already been suggested, except, perhaps, that you may wish to seek professional legal advice if money is unlimited and you cannot reconcile with yourself that you may actually be guilty.

[Old-CodJA]

I agree with firstclassx & others who have tried to help by suggesting how you should approach this matter.

 

Yes, you can TRY to negotiate a settlement right up to the time that your case is called into Court. That does not mean that TfL HAVE to agree. They do not.

 

TfL have made clear their decision and have summonsed you to answer exactly the charge I suggested you would face a while ago now. It is very unlikely that they will change their mind about prosecuting this offence.

 

In my opinion, you really should seek the professional assistance of a qualified lawyer who is experienced in handling these sort of cases and you should stop protesting that you don't believe that TfL are treating you fairly in some way. It is clear that TfL prosecutors are dealing with this in accordance with the legislation in force.

[Bamboo_fighter]

Thank you everyone for your contribution. I hate to admit it, but perhaps it is really tine to give up.

 

Last questions:

1) what is the worst that can happen now?

 

2) how long does the trial usually take on the day?

 

3) can I request hearing earlier than it is scheduled?

 

Many thanks

[Old-CodJA]

Thank you everyone for your contribution. I hate to admit it, but perhaps it is really tine to give up.

 

Last questions:

1) what is the worst that can happen now?

 

If this is your first offence and you are found guilty then a fine of up to £1000, but will normally be around £400 for a first conviction. The Magistrates can vary that according to how serious they consider any aggravating factors may be, but we cannot predict that. The evidence will be considered and assessed by the Court.

 

If you plead guilty at the first opportunity the Magistrates will give credit and reduce the fine

 

2) how long does the trial usually take on the day?

 

That varies according to how a defendant and any witnesses conduct themselves. If the defendant pleads guilty at first opportunity the initial hearing may be as short as 5 minutes, if not and if several witnesses have to be called, each will be questioned and re-questioned and that can take some time.

 

If you read the 'sticky' thread at the top of the forum you will see that I have given a full explanation of what you can expect under the thread that is titled 'What happens when you get to Court'

 

3) can I request hearing earlier than it is scheduled?

 

You will have been summonsed to attend at a specific date and time and it is extremely unlikely that can be brought forward if you are within a week or two of the date.

 

It is rare for cases to be brought forward. The case can only be heard when the rail company have a prosecutor available at that particular Court if the Court have a time slot available and if any witnesses such as the reporting inspector are available. I suggest that it is much too late to arrange that now. A full trial will not be necessary if a defendant pleads guilty at the first opportunity, but will be required if a 'not guilty' plea is entered. In that case the matter will be adjourned to a later date for both parties to arrange for all and any witnesses to attend.

 

You should attend at the time and date specified on the Summons and as soon as you do, make yourself known to the Court Usher. The prosecutor may have a long list of people summonsed on that day so it is a good idea to get there about 40 minutes early. If you do so and if you are not pushy and demanding your case may get called on first.

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hi everyone,

 

I would like to update you on the latest events.

 

After Old-CodJa's last reply, I thought I was giving up.

But the possible unpleasant outcome kept giving me goosebumps and stress.

I started feeling depressed, to be honest.

Then, decided that I should not stop here, even if advised here to prevent from any further correspondence.

 

With that in mind, I've called the prosecutor again.

I apologised, was remorseful and asked why my case cannot be dealt with accordingly to the policy of warning (see post #57 by Sammy).

 

Prosecutor explained to me that the decision can only be changed in the extinguishing circumstances.

In other words, I had to provide the proof of the adverse effect of a criminal record on my career.

 

I've called my manager and explained the situation.

A letter of explanation then was send to the prosecutor on my behalf.

This has worked and I have just received an out of court settlement offer!

 

I am writing this post to encourage people to not to give up.

If you deeply regret your actions (like I did),

you need to demonstrate that and it might help even in helpless times.

 

 

Things do not always go as planned and certain mistakes occur due to one's foolishness or unawareness.

I hope my story can motivate someone who's currently (or in the future) experiencing the same/similar situation.

 

I would also like to say a huge thanks to the team of CAG.

You guys are amazing and your support kept me going forward.

I will never forget this experience (and amount of grey hair it caused me)

and will do my best to prevent myself from such stupid actions in the future.

 

Kind regards,

Bamboo Fighter

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

That's really good news for you, thank you for the update. It sounds like a good thing to have involved your manager, that's one less worry for you.

 

I'll amend your thread title.

 

Take care, HB

[dx100uk]

wonderful news.

 

 

did the fact that it was a fake ticket/anything else specific to this event , play any part.

 

 

or was it simply a settlement on the fact that that it would effect your future employment

 

 

end of regardless to any other 'reasons'

 

 

dx

[Bamboo_fighter]

Hb,

 

Thank you!

 

Dx,

 

The fact ticket was fake, played a significant part why they did not want to settle the case out of court.

 

 

I kept telling them all the time that I was unaware the ticket was counterfeit (which is true, I really didn't know).

 

 

Key factors, helping ne to settle,

 

 

was my polite manner when speaking to them, stuborness, remorseful plea and a strict letter from a manager.

[dx100uk]

brilliant

 

 

that will help others here no end.

 

 

as you've probably already seen.

 

 

we sometimes get no result posted.

 

 

dunno why just happens.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

I have taken the liberty of slightly adapting the thread title

to reflect this case

 

 

will enable other to home into it a bit easier.

 

 

dx

[Bamboo_fighter]

I have taken the liberty of slightly adapting the thread title

to reflect this case

 

 

will enable other to home into it a bit easier.

 

 

dx

 

No problem at all.

 

With my case, I felt that I must share the outcome to show everyone that sometines, even in helpless situations, there is hope.

[Old-CodJA]

.

Good news and well done for keeping trying. That is a very unusual response in cases of this nature, but I'm pleased that it is resolved.

 

The fact that you didn't know doesn't matter if you were using it, but it seems thaey have accepted that it reduces your culpability level.

 

The key lesson - never buy or accept any rail ticket from an unauthorised source and always make sure that you have a valid one when travelling.

[Bamboo_fighter]

.

Good news and well done for keeping trying. That is a very unusual response in cases of this nature, but I'm pleased that it is resolved.

 

The fact that you didn't know doesn't matter if you were using it, but it seems thaey have accepted that it reduces your culpability level.

 

The key lesson - never buy or accept any rail ticket from an unauthorised source and always make sure that you have a valid one when travelling.

 

Thank you OC,

 

I have learnt my lesson for sure!