MBNA charges POC - should i include FOS ruling on unlawful charges.

[suvin50]

Hi

 

I am just about ready to send my N1 form. Have completed POC but I am wondering whether I should include anything from the FOS technical notes:

 

"This will involve the business removing the PPI premiums, any interest that was charged on the premiums and any charges (and interest on those charges) that would not have applied if the PPI had not been added to the account."

 

Any thoughts?

 

suvin

[dx100uk]

so this is for PPI & PENALTY charges or just charges?

 

dx

[suvin50]

Just charges.

[SabreSheep]

Can we know who the creditor is

if the amount claimed is under £10,000

Type of account. I am assuming Credit card.

Also can you confirm you have sent at least one complaint letter and one letter before action

 

Care to copy and paste a copy of your POC?

 

take out the personal details.

[SabreSheep]

Then maybe we can get this moved to the correct forum

[dx100uk]

its MBNA

 

moved to legals

 

you might find the posts around post 200 fwd useful

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?354380-MBNA-Charges-refused&p=4558589#post4558589

 

also go see the shelley threads in the Barclaycard successes forum

 

dx

[suvin50]

Here is the POC.

LBA has been sent plus 2 letters of complaint. I have had to set the apr to 24% to avoid going above £10k

[SabreSheep]

And the claiment claims (3) should be statutory interest of 8% with the appropriate daily rate.

 

That is on TOP of your interest i restitution.

 

for (2) add after restitution "at a rate of 24.9%"

[up2meears]

Hi Suvin,

 

As mentioned above, change your stat'y int to 8% - I made the mistake of putting it at the restitution rate on my PoC.

 

MBNA will say that the charges are stat barred, but would you have been charged them if PPI hadn't been added? That's the argument I am using as FOS confirmed that they would take these into account when redressing PPI, and as MBNA claim to follow FOS refund guidelines, should also do this. However, I'm sure you wont be surprised to hear that they are being like a Rottweiler with a bone, and not letting go to the stat barred argument.

 

Good luck with it, I know exactly how you feel . You will get great advice here

 

Up2

[suvin50]

Hi Up2

I have read through your thread and feel that I have a cast iron case. CC was taken out in 1996 and 1st unlawful charge applied to account was in November 2001. By that time I had already paid over £1000 in PPI premiums and contractual interest on that is over £4000, so there is no way I would ever have been over my credit limit or made a late payment.

[up2meears]

Hi Up2

I have read through your thread and feel that I have a cast iron case. CC was taken out in 1996 and 1st unlawful charge applied to account was in November 2001. By that time I had already paid over £1000 in PPI premiums and contractual interest on that is over £4000, so there is no way I would ever have been over my credit limit or made a late payment.

Sounds straight forward and logical doesn't it but this has been taken from MBNAs website

 

http://www.mbna.co.uk/about-us/news-room/statement-on-mbnas-ppi-redress (hope that link works properly, I'm useless with computery stuff)

 

"For example, our system operates so that the cost of PPI is only applied after the customer has gone over limit and after the over limit fee has been applied. As such, PPI could never cause our customers to be over limit or cause the fee to be applied.” That to me doesn't make any sense - if you take 3 years of PPI premiums and it's interest off of a balance, how can that work?? Unless you were always a coupe of grand overlimit. It just goes to show how they try to wiggle out of things, even the FOS agree that the charges should be taken into account. I think MBNA have shafted so many of their customers it will cost them thousands if not millions to put right, so just pleading ignorance

 

It's going to be a long slog, and and very frustrating when MBNA start making up their own interpretation of how they think it should be, but if you do go for it be strong and listen to the advice of the gurus here, as I would have given in by now if it wasn't for them

 

Got my final hearing in a few weeks and I haven't got a clue how it's going to go, but I like to think the right thing will be done.

 

Up2

[suvin50]

I have the transaction history for my account and this clearly shows that the charges, generally £25 OL and £25 late payment, took me over my credit limit, usually by just a few pounds,

[up2meears]

Same as me Suvin. The PPI calculation sheet they sent me shows that once the premiums and int are gone my account is never over its limit.

 

So how can they claim that PPI could never cause our customers to be over limit or cause the fee to be applied.

 

They really are a law unto themselves

[suvin50]

Hi

 

Just received MBNA's limited defence of my claim. Seems pretty standard. What is the next step in the chain?

[Mike_hawk]

Did you receive redress for PPI and, if so, when?

 

Also, do you have a current debit balance on the account and is it still with MBNA?

[suvin50]

Hi Mike,

 

I did receive partial redress in 2012 just before MBNA changed their calculation method. Card ran from 1995-2006 and redress was only calculated from 1999. Account was sold in 2007. Complaint still with FOS.

[Mike_hawk]

Perhaps a first instance case may assist you overcoming limitation, would up2 provide a witness statement with details of the case number and DJ's findings on PPI redress and its effect on limitation? For aged disputes its best to throw in as many arguments as possible no matter how novel they may appear. I know there were a couple of naysayers on that thread but the reality was that the DJ extended the bar on that element.

 

I believe (from what I understand of the case) the claim failed not on the test of fairness, but on the remedy sought (declaratory relief). You, on the other hand, have claimed an equitable remedy in the repayment/restitution of sums charged and settled.

[suvin50]

Hi

Just had my mediation session. Complete waste of time as MBNA refusing to budge. I'd better crack on with the bundle.

[suvin50]

Hi,

I've just received a "General Form of Judgement or Order". As I am relying on Kleinwort and Sempra Metals I am ordered to provide "full citations" of theses cases in my bundle. Does this mean I have to print the full ruling or just a summary?

 

suvin

[Andyorch]

No...Legal citations are the references in the text or in footnotes to the primary source of the rule you are relying on in your exposition or argument. In other words it is your source of authority (or proof) for the claim that ‘the law is x’.

 

This is why legal citations are so important – the law is not as it is because you say so, or because a textbook writer says so, but because it is written in a recognised source of law. Thus whenever you make a claim that ‘the law is x’, you should cite authority for that proposition, and that authority should be a primary source.

Knowing where the law is stated allows the court to assess not only whether your claim is accurate, but also how strong the authority is and what it would take to change the law.

 

The citation is therefore not just a nicety but an integral part of the evidence that supports your argument.

[suvin50]

Do I need to print off the full judgement and mark the relevant sections?

[Andyorch]

No just that parts that you refer and rely on...with the Judgment as the main heading.

[suvin50]

Right Thanks Andy

[suvin50]

I've just received my reconstructed account spread sheet.

 

 

Can this be used to get MBNA's defence thrown out as

 

 

it clearly shows that I have never been over my credit limit with PPI taken off.

 

 

It also shows that they have been aware of this since I first complained in 2012.

[SabreSheep]

If you are reclaiming charges it doesn't matter at all WHY they were imposed. Credit card charges are unlawful period. I do not see why you went over your limit is relevant in a reclaim case.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?423713-Barclaycard-Link Concluded very recently so the info is more up to date.

 

For court action I would separate your PPI claim from your charges reclaim. (Unless Andy or one of the more experienced disagrees with me. )