Help re vet

[WingedAngel19]

A short while ago we had an emergency with our pet bird When he started to be sick

we rushed to the vets and it was obvious the pet was very ill and had gone down hill quickly.

 

Mum was asked to sign a peice of paper to give them permission to check over the bird in another room

and it was signed without out time to read, but TBH it was an emergency and the last thing on our minds.

 

Bird came back out with vet who checked it over and confirmed no visible lumps as was wanting to rule out obvious cancer

and that indeed the bird was very sick.

 

We were told a number of investigations needed to be done to try and find the cause to possibly save the bird

and that it would be expensive and an estimate was quoted there and then to which mum said please do what you can.

The bird had been with us for over ten years and my mum has mental health issues and we wanted to do right by our pet.

 

Vet said the bird was so sick it needed to be put on a drip straight away and kept in over night to see if survived that,

then the next step would be to x-ray under anesthetic and blood tests, so we waited hopefully for positive call step by step.

 

Mum had emergency money saved for of considerable amount and as the quote was quite high at the till

offered the full amount there and then and said any left over could be refunded or any extra added later,

to which was told no, just pay the first consulation fee which without question she did.

 

The promised evening call did not occur, but we realised vets are busy and as suspected it would be a call re pet passing waited till morning.

 

Phone called and told us bird had survived the night and in fact was eating a little and it looked positive, phew.

Next step was to take place later that day and we got the call to say pet had survived the aneasthetic and the xray was fine

and bloods taken and all was positive so far,but that the bloods would give the full reason for illness.

 

Got unxpected call then to ask for permission to put pet down, as was on emergency o2 and was suffering,

which was shock compared to positive call prior, but a very sad mum gave permission and well the whole street heard her cry most likely......

 

We were very stressed and upset but knew pet was not suffering now, mum was struggling to deal with it and

 

then we had issue with kitchen flooded and mum panicked and called out emergency plumber, this was all within few hours....Not a good few days.

 

The outcome of this was the emergency money my mum had due to her panicking over the flooding,

which turned out to be comming from a washing machine and mum did not know how to turn off the water,

meant late plumber costs for help and repair which mum paid out in cash there and then to resolve.

 

Mum has never had an overdraft from her bank so she approached them and requested one to help to make sure we could settle the vet bill

and when told the reason for needing one, the bank refused.

 

TBH it turned out mums account was not one that gave overdrafts anyway and mum did not realise.

 

To get the bird to an avian specialist vet due to no transport and mums panic which was justified,

we got a taxi to next county and it cost us £50 in total there and back,

which at time mum had emergency money and was panicking about her bird,

 

she has mental health issues you see which affect her actions,

but have to say she was dealing with it no worse than I would have re sense of getting to nearest avian vet

due to bird was exotic and rehomed by her some time ago from dead friend.

The bird meant a lot to her

 

After the plumbing issue it became obvious we would struggle to afford the taxi to pick up the birds body

and they offered over the phone to deal with it and mum would ring back in few days to sort out how to pay,

but I do wish they had accepted the money upfront when offered as perhaps mum having no money left

would have stopped her calling out a very expensive emergency plumber due to no cash

and perhaps I could have called a neighbor friend to help,

but this is all after the event as I was not there and round friends house,

but if there could have stopped her.

 

Long story so far,

 

but mum contacted the vets by their answer service re getting an itemised bill and sorting out a mutual payment plan

to pay off the amount as quickly as possible.

 

Mum heard nothing back re the two contacts via their email message service,

which told them that we agreed to their offer of disposing of pet their end due to cost of taxis being problem now

and that would get in touch once had itemised final bill.

 

Phone rang and it was the woman asking what did we want doing with pet as was in the freezer.

Mum screamed and broke down at description as had expected bird to have been dealt with but had had no reply.

 

She was polite but going down hill and asked them had they read her contact emails

to be told they had received both and mum asked why did they need to tell her pet was in a freezer as instructions were clear,

she had to leave the phone then till gathered herself and

 

rang back to get confirmed they would deal with bird in relation to the already confirmed request from her.

Mum became very ill and even was heard asking the receptionist for them to get bird back alive again

and had the pinched him or had he escaped and they just didnt want to tell her.

Think she was desperately wishing he was still alive, but the trigger was told he was in a freezer.

 

mum calmed down and awaited the bill to which she intended explaining plumbing issue along with bank told her a firm

had without permission taken money out of her account,

which we had to contact them to get back,

but that we would pay the money albeit it by agreed payment plan.

 

Got reply saying that they do not offer new customers payment plans and if the bill was not settled within 21 days in full

that they planned to charge compound interest of 10% every month.

 

Mum had been quite honest in her financial situation, did add if they had took the £400.00 the vet will remember was offered as down payment there and then,

that it would have been paid, but that we would pay them an agreed amount but please dont charge interest

as firstly not aware of any interest information re non paid in full bills.

 

The admission form signed was not even allowing us to read it,

it was sign to rush him in and worded as permission to treat and no copy was even given,

that is the only thing we signed and have no clue if any interest is mentioned on there

and if it is, was certainly not pointed out, we have requested a copy.

 

Up to date mum has been holding on re her conditon and contacted them offering £40.00 a month to pay the bill

and they have refused this ammount despite her stating she is on benefits.

 

Yes she did have a rehomed exotic pet well loved,

and did put money away in event of emergency,

but split descision by her due to her conditon once bird was dead,

meant the flood was priority at that time,

she did not know even how to turn the water off and panicked,

I wish I had been there.

 

Fact is she owes the money,

has received final bill and

then an email inflating the cost and refusing any payment plan.

 

I see it from both sides,

the vet wants their money,

but I also stood by mum offering them the £400.00 up front,

as due to taxi cost of additonal £50.00 for each return journey,

we had sort of expected the worst, but vet had said not unkown for pets to bounce back.

 

Turned out bird had chronic kidney failure, was told it is in their DNA and whilst mum was pleading bird is only 19,

was told quite middle aged and it does just happen due to infection or as vet said in their DNA.

 

Bird had shown no signs prior to few poorly days, was still eating, stood on one foot, great color plumage,

all the signes you know in a healthy bird. Just mum knew all of a sudden we needed to rush him to get help.

 

She insists she can still hear him talking to her, when in fact it is probably next doors bird, and is not very well,but is under the hospital.

 

I dont want her getting any dca threat calls

as last time police arrived re an ongoing 20yr old debt she pays £1.00 a month to

and mum told them if they did not leave her alone she was going to harm herself,

police came to the house.

 

We want to get the vet to hopefully accept £40.00 a month and dont charge a non understood interest which would be like a kick when down.

Mum is under hospital seeing psychiatrist soon.

 

Can a vet randomly add 10% compound interest a month when I understand they want their money,

but have been told the truth and seem to show no compassion.

I wish they had took her money when offered it.

 

ps.

Mum did pay the first examination fee of about £55.00 there and then and even the woman on the till said payment up front

was not necessary,despite mum offered it there and then.

Edited June 6, 2014 by WingedAngel19

[WingedAngel19]

Mum has suggested she pay the money into their bank account, as has the details from bill once a month, but I think she needs agreement set in place first to stop the interest and look into that.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

I'm moving your thread to the pets and vets forum and will leave you a short term redirect to follow from this forum to the new one.

 

HB

[WingedAngel19]

Thanks

[SabreSheep]

I also think that maybe there is some investigation work for that DCA you could do on her behalf.

 

If she is mentally unwell then DCAs and OCs have extra duties as she is a Vulnerable debtor. You may want to start a seperate thread about the dca and the debt. paying £1 a month for 20 years is excessive.

 

IN all it looks like you and her have been through the works. I do not know much about credit unions but I am wondering if this situation would be helpful here.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Here's a link to a stikky about credit unions. I hope it's helpful. HB

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?396633-Credit-Unions-an-alternative-to-payday-loans

[WingedAngel19]

Thanks I probably will in the future. It is a credit card from the early 90's, if they contact her again I will start thread as now can act on her behalf.

[SabreSheep]

Please do

Having suffered Mental health problems in my past, I hate to see others being victimised or preyed on, esp by DCAs

[maddiemay]

Go to citizens advice bureau, I'm sure they will help you draft a letter to the vets explaining the situation and urging them to accept the £40 per month.

 

The vet does seem a bit harsh, we have only just recently paid off a vet bill of over £1,000, which included, not only the treatment of our beloved cat (he survived another 9 months after) but his eventual cremation (if owner wants ashes back, the animal is cremated alone) the cat shaped urn and a plaque! Seems our vet is pretty good judging by your experience. We paid no interest either.

 

Also, unfortunately, I was told our fur baby would be kept in the freezer, why they feel the need to tell us I don't know!

 

Wishing you and your mum all the best

[veganite]

hello winged,

 

Re the DCA and police, neither you nor your mum should feel intimidated by either.

If a DCA turns up at your door you can just tell them to go away and that you will only deal with the matter in writing.

About the police, I am guessing the police called to you in order to protect your mum, since your mum said she would harm herself I guess the DCA informed the police who then called to ensure your mum was ok.

 

You seem to be articulate and thorough in the way you write. Maybe you can use this to your advantage in writing a letter to the vets, also explaining about your mums health, also explain that your offer of £40 per month is all that your mum can reasonably afford. You could also explain that your in addition to your mums mental health, she is also concerned about paying her debts and that she will endeavour to pay them to the best of her ability. Maybe write in the letter that a previous debt had a detrimental effect on your mums health in the fact that the police had to attend to ensure your mum was ok and did not intend on harming herself.

 

To answer your question about 10% compound, no, I do not believe they can do that unless you signed an agreement to that effect.

 

I have a friend who is a part time / retired vet. I have sent them a link to this thread in an effort to see whether xray, anaesthetic, lbood tests were all necessary. Its a long shot... but worth a try / look! I, or perhaps they will post any advice they can give.

 

I hope that your mum (and yourself) feel less stress soon. Main thing is do not worry!

The worst scenario if the vet is uncooperative is that you drop their payments down to £1 a month!

 

I may be wrong in some or most of the above...

 

I hope that things soon get better for the both of you!

[dx100uk]

def get that other £1PCM debt sorted out

 

fire them off a CCA request.

 

sounds like she is being cash cowed badly.

 

pers i'd be stopping payments NOW

[WingedAngel19]

Mum got a reply with copy of admission form signed we did not have time to read, as told had to sign before could treat him

 

There is one issue mum is dealing with, but also I noticed a statement saying payment in full is required

and if pet is admitted payment in stages required for treatment also that payment in full required on picking up pet

or in stages as prior mentioned and more important it states, if payment is not paid in full an administration fee of 10% will be added.

 

Now the vet in email after tha fact tried to tell mum an admin fee of 10% of outstanding balance is required every month

but the admission form we did not have time to read does not state a monthly rate, more clearly a one off charge from what I interpret.

Oddly the itemised bill conflicts with what stated as it states payments not settled within 21 days is charged 5% compund interest a month.

 

This vet whilst urgent to treat ort pet as we interpreted, should at least give us time to read what we sign.

Mum was told you need to sign this for us to examin and if needed admit him, this was before he was even checked over for lumps

and mum was still holding onto hope we could take him home that night with antibiotics that would cure him for suspected infection we guessed.

 

Also the copy is not very clear signature wise, mum is finding it odd how the printed word is clear yet her signature is blurred

and the first name of mum is a clear straight T on her signatures elsewhere, on the form is looks like a J.

 

Oddly on the top of the form where the vet infront of us wrote down my mobile number along with house number

as mums phone was dead he took my number for emergency,

my name has been writted in blurred pen and oddly enough my name starts with a J.

 

My mum signed for the form infront of me and to us this from is not clear enough for us to say this is the form we singed,

as had no chance to read and were not given a copy.

 

You would think any form mentioning interest risk charges would result in copy given to pet owner. Not only that but my mobile number was written on the front of the from in front of us with me there, yet on the copy my phone number is not written near my name very odd !!!

 

At the end of the day mum said the form does not matter, in that on it is a suspected diagnosis which is not what the vet stated to us stood there in the room,

it does not make sense, but this form does show a 10% charge, but more importantly does not say monthly.

 

From this form here you cannot justify trying to add more than a one off admin fee if the vet wanted to be so lacking in compassion

that they seem to forget it was them who refused the advance payment, and only took the initial examin fee.

 

This form which feels alien to mum as again did not read or have copy does also hints that if pet is to stay in hospital which bird did,

then if tests are to be done, they want payment from them in stages.

 

Rather the reverse of what told when they refused the £400.00.

 

Mum has said if they really did not want the money relating to treatment suggested test wise which was approximated to £400.00,

then if they want to try and impose a 10% charge admin fee, surely its rather unprofessional that they refused the offer of payment in advance. Why?

 

So on top of our bad luck in losing pet and flood, they want to kick the boot in.

 

Mum is also confused and looking into another issue.

The vet after asking what pet was normally fed and when last noticed eating normally replied to us that we seemed to be giving him a good diet.

We told him pet was eating fine till few days ago and then stopped and we noticed change in droppings consistancy,

which led mum to research it and rush him in.

 

On this form it states to stabilise for anorexia and lists tests PU/PB etc... to determine cause.

 

Mum broke down when read anorexia, which of course in humans is one thing, but after research in pets is lack of apetite, lethargy.

But it does not take much research to realise that avian anorexia has to have been an ongoing condition

which would have been noticed surely much much sooner.

 

Mum has asked for results to the tests done, as she is starting to doubt the vets description that is was in his DNA as in middle aged parrot of 19,

which mum said was surely too young and he had said pets diet seemed okay from what we told him.

So you see if we had been given copy of this form or seen it to read on day, mum would have said,

hang on what is anorexia when you are looking at ruling out swallowed something or kidney failure. Confusing !!

 

He told us pet was seriously ill and despite looking good, due to wild birds protecting nature, they dont show illness untill seriously ill.

Surely the tests done would have at least resulted in us being given a formal diagnosis, as in if it was kidney failure which would result in death,

then the tests would have shown it to state to us.

 

We got a call all positive, to then get a call he is on oxygen and give permission to put him to sleep.

Mum is tearing herself apart that due to distance they made the descision to end his life rather than fight for him....

..... We have been told kidney failure with no official results stating so, we trusted the vets word as no reason to doubt.

 

Whilst pet is dead now we cant reverse that, I think the way they dealt with mum was unprofessional.

Mum got phone call and was told he was suffereing yet fine and eating only couple of hours before.

Mum is torturing herself they just decided to put him down or that he had already died earlier and they are playing her. Mum is unwell of course,

but I feel had they sent her email test results/xray results she would have had foundation to justify why she was right to say yes okay put him to sleep.

She is upset thinking if she had said no, perhaps he could have still bounced back or perhaps he was already dead.

 

Mum is only having these up and down thoughts since told he was in the freezer and when explained our circumstances

they took a very non compassionate attitude, after understanding we had not had chance to read form,

there are concerns there in itself re the form, but mum says at least it confirms they are out of order saying will charge 10% interest every month.

 

Vet said pet was so very ill we should prepare ourselves, if anorexia to extent he had been dying was the cause

leading to organ faiure mum has said due to her research, surely it would have been kinder to put him to sleep whilst mum was there.

 

It seems to me the vet knew pet was going to die,why were we routed to option of tests xray etc......was that fair on him.

Mum said any hope would have said yes do the tests as she did, but perhaps we should have been told if suspected kidney condition due to avian anorexia,

then surely there was no hope, he was dying in front of us.

 

As we had no chance to see what we signed, we trusted or picked up there was a little hope which was worth any expense mum said.

But was if fair on our pet if vet suspected what mum has researched from listed on this form......

 

We can only hope we did the right thing trying to fight for him...

...but feel after research withour any evidence showing it was a quick illness which destroyed his organs etc...

then the alternative is more distressing. Whilst he appeard to be eating he was really very very sick and we did not know,

so feel we have let him down/suffer through us not realising.

 

Hence asked mum to ask for evidence of exactly what results showed, as we have never been told anymore than his xray was clear which was good news,

but told nothing re the blood tests.....due to call to put him down.

 

Sorry for going on, we will pay what is owed for our pet, just my compassion for the practice has dissapeard with how they treat mum.

Why email saying 10% charge every month, when a one off charge is the truth from what we see on this form,

even if it looks to me alien as my mobile number is not written on it that I can see. Odd eh?

 

If vet states again mum has to pay a fee of 10% interest monthly, I am going to tell her to reduce the offered month amount

inline with her finances due to lack of compassion/clarity.

 

Pet is gone, mum will pay, but at her pace, rather than stress over and over re a vet practice who dont keep owner fairly informed

or understand emergencies happen elsewhere too.

 

Vets need their money, I can see that. Why they would refuse £400.00 from a new customer not later worthy of credit of same amount

is something perhaps they might review next time dealing with similar case. If offered money in advance, take it !!

[WingedAngel19]

Mum got a green wooden heart which she found painted by hand and it says:

 

'Loved you once

love you still

Always have

Always will'

 

and birds name below

 

We just hope we didnt put pet through extra pain in our choice of agreeing to tests, when recomended they were way to go. Hoping that he didn't suffer. Rollercoaster ride.

[WingedAngel19]

vet has responded

 

they will split the outstanding balance into 3 of amounts more than 100.00

but in meantime add interest till paid in full and

 

when paid in full supposedly refund the interest.

 

But we have stated on benefits and that 40.00 is a lot for us and please to accept or we will have no choice but to pay £1.00 a month till reach resolution.

 

Mum paid the account £1.00 as taster hoping they will see sense and take the £40.00

 

The email from vets today confirms they were offered the money from us in advance when estimate given and that they chose to refuse it.

 

They then add not their fault we had the flood, which is true,

but I replied on mums behalf, that compassion surely realises was beyond our control,

so they have some part in why did they refuse the money,

hence plese just accept our payment plan.

 

I have pointed out mum is classed as vulnerable so not to pass her details to any third party,

but at least whatever the vet chooses to do, we can show we have made every effort right from the start to pay the bill in full.

 

The vet prevented that yet wants to kick us when down with charges we had no opportunity to be aware of to boot.

 

Mum got me to ask for results of blood tests and xray as in copies,

that a vet could interpret as we know no more than researched by us prior to going to vet,which was confirmed after he was examined.

 

Fingers crossed it will get resolved.

[renegadeimp]

If theyre willing to refund interest, they can stop the interest before any payments are made. What they said makes no sense unless they are simply keeping the money and telling you to bog off.

[SabreSheep]

This "interest" bit has me worried. Can a VET make a commercial credit agreement that charges interest without a credit license? Charging interest is one thing, paying in installments is another.

 

I think there may be more to push here which is why they are saying now they will refund the interest if paid off.

[SabreSheep]

http://www.lawdonut.co.uk/law/sales-and-marketing/offering-credit-to-consumers

 

Im beginning to read.

 

In meantime do you have a copy of the "agreement" and if not can you write and get one?

 

then you can scan it in/take phone photo of it and then convert to a pdf and upload it. (Remove ALL personal details though including any account number or their references and barcodes etc)

 

Guide is below

 

follow this:

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAGicon in the title

i'e Default notice DDicon-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

[WingedAngel19]

Exactly my worry, which is why mum has asked for interest stopped and payment plan agreed in line with what can afford.

 

Also to say 10% interest every month on outstanding balance is disgusting when not given opportunity to read what signed or it pointed out,their being issues with copy of form and even if is correct form which I have concerns over, it says if not paid in full and admin fee of 10% will be added. No where does it say 10% a month moreso a one off payment is implied of 10% if not paid in full.

 

I feel this vet is trying to intimidate my mum into paying more than she can afford, whilst taking no responsibility for admitting they refused her payment up front. Perhaps next time they will rethink an offered large payment in advance in relation to estimate given verbally.

 

I plan to put our experience on vet review sites, warning people even if distressed to make sure you are given the opportunity to read a form you have to sign in order to get pet looked at. Even if worded like a permission to treat verbally like this was, it may have little bits not pointed out. Sounds obvious now to say it, but at the time it was all rush to get him looked at.

 

Surely they can see sense!

[WingedAngel19]

Sorry should add its the vet practice manager, director not the actual vet who treat the bird, who is being unhelpful

[SabreSheep]

I defiantly recommend getting that agreement. She must of signed it so its going to be difficult for them to change it

[renegadeimp]

Agreed. Dont pay a penny until you get the agreement. Depending on what it says and what actions they/you take, perhaps a complaint to RCVS is in order too?

[WingedAngel19]

We have copy of 'permission to treat', but the copy is so blurred re singatures, yet perfectly clear re print. My concern is its a copy and paste job as mum swears the space above the signature area appeared larger even when not able to read it, whereas the 10% bit is almost on top of her signature. It does not look right.

 

We if this goes on will ask for a better copy which was worded to us as permission to treat, thanks again.

 

Mum initial seems to look like a J oddly also and my name is written on it where my phone number was written, yet the number has miraculously dissapeard, odd

 

Even if we get better copy and we now realise its there, despite the morals of it giving no time to read, it does clearly not say a monthly charge of 10%,just appears one off admin fee. We are happy in ourselves we are correct here.

 

Will post it up if this issue carries on.

Edited June 10, 2014 by WingedAngel19

[WingedAngel19]

Thanks, yes I have looked into what body I need to complain to. After all if they could improve to make sure this event is never repeated, that would be a positive. We did mention we were considering a complaint to regulatory body.

[SabreSheep]

The truth is beginning to out

[veganite]

hello,

sorry, my vet friend could not help with an opinion whether treatment and tests were all necessary.

 

if you are thinking about complaining, then this link may be interesting for you: http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/code-of-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/supporting-guidance/practice-information-and-fees/

Practice information

 

9.1 Veterinary practices should provide clients, particularly those new to the practice, with comprehensive written information on the nature and scope of the practice's services, including:

 

1. the provision, initial cost and location of the out-of-hours emergency service;
   
2. information on the care of in-patients;
   
3. the practice's complaints handling policy, and could also provide full terms and conditions of business, to include for example:
   


1. surgery opening times
   
2. whether open or by appointment
   
3. fee or charging structures
   
4. procedures for second opinions and referrals
   
5. use of client data
   
6. access to and ownership of records