Erudio... again and again and agin

[Sagi]

Hi all,

I've been reading through a quite a few threads on the site (there are quite a lot now!)

for the last couple of weeks and they've really helped me understand whats going on.

 

Not everytihng in the others threads is entirely relavent to me.

 

I've tried compiling a few bits of advice but I'm worried I'm still missing some info.

(In fact it would be really cool if somebody could compile all the links and main points on Erudio)

 

Some basic background on me.

 

 

• I'm currently living and working in France.
  
• My first loans was in 1997 (mortgage style loans)
  
• I've deferred for at least 7 years (prior to that I made some payments for 2 years)
  
  • I can legally still defer (I earn a pittance)
    

  [*]I have around 5500 GBP to pay back

Like everyone else,

I recently had the pleasure of being contacted by Erudio,

telling me that they had bought my loan and that they would send me a deferral form.

 

I recieved their deferral form and was not a big fan of the changes they've made,

particularly that they "require" more information than the old deferral forms.

 

. From reading the other threads what I get is:

(but I'd appreciate it if somebody could confirm or deny what I'm saying)

 

They're trying to changes the TC's of the original loan

- though they don't have the right (as they're not the original lender),

unless maybe I sign the new deferral form and send it back ?

• I can delay them by askig for a CCA, but not sure how this will really help me in the end?
  
• I'm guessing that since I've consistently deferred my loan over the last 7+ years I can't claim statute barred, as effectively I've acknowledged the debt by deferring?
  
  • I could potentially ignore their requests and hope they don't find me for 6 years, but
    
    • They would say I defaulted ? (On my CR?) And demand I repay in full?
      
      • Could they actually enforce this and how ?
        

      [*]They could potentially send agents after me to recover the money?

      • Would they actually do this?
        

      [*]They could screw with my credit rating and generally make life difficult for me if I return to the UK.

      • What happens if I stay in France?
        

Frankly I'm trying to decide what to do... I could legally just defer.. but I'm annoyed by the changes in the T&C's. And I'm tempted just to tell them where they can stick their forms.

 

I've seen on other threads that people have said I don't have to use their forms or provide

all the information they're requesting?

 

So what I'd like to know is, can anyone tell me exactly what information I am legally obliged to give them?

 

Does anyone have a copy of the original mortage style T&C's I could look at ? or a scan of the origial deferral forms?

 

For that matter if anyone could scan a blank copy of the new deferral forms

that could be useful, as I started scrawling on mine before I realised what I was doing!

 

What happens when I send back the deferral form/ information that I'm legally required to,

and they then refuse my deferal, because I haven't given them all the information they asked for?

What can they do and what can I do to stop them ?

 

Any advice would be welcome!

[dx100uk]

there are numerous threads here with all this info already

 

just type in

Erudio

 

in the search of our grey toolbar up top.

 

there are copies of the old/new T&C's too.

 

if you are remaining in france I question why you are even thinking of responding............

 

dx

[citizenB]

It is my understanding that they cannot change the terms and conditions - unless you sign to say that you agree with them.

[Sagi]

Cheers!

 

I've been going through some of the other threads and I'm still compiling info, (I'll try and dig up the T&C's on the other threads)

 

Yeah I got that they couldn't change the terms and conditions but I wondered if me signing their deferral document could be considered as me "agreeing"/ accepting the changes ?

 

If I send the a request for a CCA, that obviously delays things a bit and I've seen on other threads that they don't always have copies... what happens then? Can I just tell them to go hang?

 

I have considered just ignoring them... whether I stay in France or not I don't know, it depends a lot on work and that's not going too well right now... what worries me is the possibilty of them coming after me over here, could they / would they?? I do return to the UK now and again, and don't want them waiting for me at the airport?? (I could be being hysterical here?!). Also does my credit record follow into europe?? My debt is relatively small so I'd guess they probably wouldn't bother chasing me? (it would'nt be worth their time??).

 

Also could the fact they've changed the requirements for the deferral be a breach of contract? (Or is that just wishful thinking on my part - I'm very "green" about all this)

 

Cheers again,

[WarrenBuffet]

Firstly, they are a DCA and have no such powers to come after you in France or arrest you at airport etc. They are not Bailiffs and they have NO instruction from the courts .....infact the courts have a distinct dislike of DCA's like we do. They are the bottom rung in the Debt industry ....bottom feeders that you would do well to not trust nor beleive a word they say and question everything they tell you.

 

If you intend staying in France then do as dx advises and bin their letters.

 

CCA is a good idea as it circumvents their deferment and if you do feel the need eveuntally to send deferment send SLC deferment form by recorded delivery stating that these were the terms you signed to and you are not prepared to complete theirs as you have no contract with them. Get sister-brother-hus-wife to sign all letters to them.

 

Their stance on your breach of contract argument is that they are operating within contract its just that SLC were lapse in enforcing and they are operating more strictly to the T&C's!?

....so forget about it as you are wasting your time IMO.

 

.....Yes, signing deferral form (Theirs) can be viewed as acknowledge of their T&C which is why we recommend you return a copy of the SLC form and have someone else sign all your correspondence who will be prepared to state that it is their signature and NOT yours.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You cannot be arrested for civil debt in the UK.

 

 

There is however a facility called a European Enforcement Order where a court in any EU country can "enforce" an order made in another.

[Sagi]

Cheers for that!

Yeah I thought the whole "breach of contract" was probably pretty weak... worth a try.

 

I need to decide what I'm going to do fairly sharpish, my deferrement periods ends the middle of this month (obviously I only got their deferrement form a couple of weeks ago..), though they haven't marked when I need to get the forms back to them anywhere, just that my period of deferral ends mid May...

 

Ok so I've got my hands on a pdf copy of the old SLC deferrement form, if I completed that and sent it back with a letter saying that I don't agree to the changes in the TC's.... That way I'm providing them with the information required by the original creditor and I'm not signing / accepting their changes to the terms or conditions? They'd probably just send it back I imagine saying I need to complete their form or maybe they'd just ignore it and say I've defaulted...? Should I get somebody else to sign this as well? (do they sign their name or mine??)

 

Also I'm guessing to be legally valid I'd need to send my CCA by snail mail - sending it by email probably wouldn't cut it??

 

Disappearing is tempting, I imagine they could find me if they wanted to though, it wouldn't be that difficult, they don't have an address for me but they do the address of my employer..

[citizenB]

You cannot be arrested for civil debt in the UK.

 

 

There is however a facility called a European Enforcement Order where a court in any EU country can "enforce" an order made in another.

 

Doesnt that only work if Court Action has been taken, though Brig ?

[Sagi]

Ah, so if Erudio makes a court order against me in UK dmeanding that I pay the sum back in full it could be enforced in France? I would therfore be in the merde...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes is could!

Hi CB This company is litigious I have found it is always worth knowing that other EU states are far more likely to issue EEOs.

Brig

[WarrenBuffet]

But they are not the OC, therefore a judge would tell them to jog-on. That is my understanding. Their only weapon is to attempt to mark someones CRA file and as i understand, they cannot even do this without getting your signature on one of their documents. (Their deferment form)

 

Sagi, 1st thing id do is get a CCA sent as this means you are disputing the "Alleged debt" as a result deferment does not need returning legally until they respond.

 

The reason for someone else signing is when they start their dirty tricks you can say that you have not signed anything with eurido and who ever signed for you can state i signed therefore there is no contract between you and them. (Play crafty as they are known for their dirty tricks)

........ Yeah either get them to sign your name or even 'Joe Bloggs' as i don't reckon they even look at the signature.

 

......If they reject your deferment and default you then you produce your recorded delivery slip and take it to FCA and get mark/default removed. Fight them the whole way and stick to your guns, they will demand that you provide this, that and other info .....to which you reply No! i will only provide you with what i provided SLC and no more! Stick to your guns and they do back down as many are finding .......so be firm.

[Ocelot0411]

Warrenbuffet - interested in your comment that they can't record a default without a signature. Could you expand on that for me please?

[WarrenBuffet]

There is no contract between you and them without a signature. The OC (Original Creditor ) may have your signature but Eurido do not and hence why the first thing you do is send a CCA to ask them for a copy of the signed contract/s as you are not aware of a contract between you and eurdio but you do recognise a contract between you and SLC as that was all you signed.

 

*If you read Zaly's thread directly below this and 'dx''s post #12 he/she explains it perfectly.

[renegadeimp]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?423459-Erudio-again!&p=4527999&viewfull=1#post4527999

[dx100uk]

can we just check something

 

you indicate in post 1 your first loans were prior to the changes in 1998

 

are you saying you have new [sLC] loans after this date?

 

dx

[WarrenBuffet]

dx

my understanding is that if you took your first loan under the mortgage style pre 1998

then even if you still took another in lets say yr2000,

then that loan is still a mortgage style loan .

 

There was another thread where someone started uni in 1998

and their first loan was the old (mortgage) loan,

the following two or three loans they took in the following years were all mortgage style loans .....

 

.. if that is your question ?

[dx100uk]

never investigated that aspect

 

would be nice

 

but I have my doubts

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

warrenbuffet,

Let's get something clear, IF an account has been sold or acquired in the way Eurdi has in respect of SLs then it is sold in its "entirety" with the rights and obligations of that original agreement / contract, therefor Eurdio have no need to have a further Signature or contract with the debtor.

[WarrenBuffet]

Hi Brig,

 

that does contradict what i have previously been told. I know that this appears to be a very grey area as there is much conflicting advice. Why are they never out of the courts as most challenge their legal title including myself, i do appreciate that not all scenarios are the same but they do appear very reluctant to take me to court even when i have requested that they do?

 

Im guessing that the confusion arises over the OC title, inthat only the OC has the real powers and these are transferred when the debt is sold. I questioned this point and was told that the debtor needed to acknowledge the new party as OC.

 

It really is an area causing a great deal of confusion.

[silverfox1961]

Hi. My 2p

 

Pre 98 loans were not entered on to credit files. Post 98 loans did.

 

IF Erudio are asking for permission to add details to your credit file for pre 98 loans, you can tell them to jog on. Having seen the letters sent by Erudio, there are two sections, one to defer and then further down another signature is required for them to mark credit files.

 

My suggestion is to sign the deferment part but not the data protection part. I would go as far as adding a letter to the forms stating that you formally reject any right they think they have to mark your credit file.

 

When the gov. sold these debts, the original terms and conditions should be adhered to and if Erudio are trying to do things differently, a complaint needs to be raised.

 

By not deferring you open yourself up to debt collection letters.

 

Erudio is now the creditor in all sense and purpose and have exactly the same rights and responsibilities that SLC had. What they cannot do is update anyones credit file without first getting permission (pre 98 loans)

[Sagi]

Cheers everyone!

 

Dx - Yes, I have three loans with the SLC, the first was taken out in 97. They have always been treated as the same "type" of loan when I've been dealing with the SLC (and I have made repayments in the past) and on the letter from Erudio they refer to them as mortgage type loans.. I think... I'll have to double check that later but I'm sure I'm right.

 

Silverfox - That's interesting, so does change pre-98 / post-98 change affect all types of loan i.e. does it effect the mortgage type loans and the new ones or just the new type loans? Though on my defferrement form there's only one box to sign at the end... and in the section on conditions which follows they mark

"Warning

Fair processing notice in relation to applications for deferrals.

In order to check your application to defer payments on your student loan and in accordance with the terms set out in the original credit agreement, we have the right to undetake (their spelling mistake) checks to confirm hat you are eligible for deferment.

Accordingly therefore by submitting this application you confirm that you consent for Erudio to perfom relevant checks at credit reference and fraud prevention agencies. If your application for deferral is accepted , information that you have a deferred loan will be registred with credit reference agencies. Details of the information that will be recorded about you and how they and we will use you information is set out overleaf"

There then follows a side of A4 basically saying they can and will share my information with everyone, how it coudl affect my credit rating etc and that the credit record information can be sent outside of the european economic area (so it's given that they share this information with other european CRAs...

[Sagi]

I'll have another look through my loan documents tonight to confirm that they are indeed Mortgage style loans and I'll try and upload a scan of the terms and conditions on the back of the deferrement form if people think that would be useful?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brig,

 

that does contradict what i have previously been told. I know that this appears to be a very grey area as there is much conflicting advice. Why are they never out of the courts as most challenge their legal title including myself, i do appreciate that not all scenarios are the same but they do appear very reluctant to take me to court even when i have requested that they do?

 

Im guessing that the confusion arises over the OC title, inthat only the OC has the real powers and these are transferred when the debt is sold. I questioned this point and was told that the debtor needed to acknowledge the new party as OC.

 

It really is an area causing a great deal of confusion.

 

 

There is no grey are, debts are sold in line with the Law of Property Act 1925. The assignment gives the debt purchaser the right to pursue the debt up to and including CCJ s and if the debt is above £750 to petition for bankruptcy.

 

 

A creditor will view a case on the merit of court action basically is it financially sound to do so, the debtor has no choice in reality the account has been legally sold the original creditor has no more to do with it. The "real powers are transferred to the debt purchaser at the time of sale.

 

 

Much of what you are quoting has parallels with the discredit theories of " the freemen on/of the land" who believe that one a debt has been sold it no longer is the responsibility of the debtor, which of course is nonsense.

[billy_79]

Brig is spot on with this. Further, advising people to treat it as just another DCA scenario is wrong and irresponsible.

 

There is a clause in the original SLC T&C that states:

"We shall have the right to assign or transfer all or any of our rights and duties under this agreement to any person without your consent".

 

Also, if you took out your first loan in 1997 or earlier, all further loans (assuming you stayed on the same course), are the old mortgage style ones. My last loan was in 2001, and it is definitely still the old type. From 98 onwards tuition fees came in for new students, and the new loan scheme was altered to take this into consideration (mainly you could borrow a lot more, but also that repayments are made by your employers, like tax and NI deductions).

 

The other difference is with the t&c of mortgage style loans before/after 97. Early ones don't specifically say they can inform CRAs, 98 and onwards they do state that they can if you break the t&c:

 

"if you have broken this agreement, to licensed credit reference agencies".

[Ocelot0411]

That's my understanding Brig, hence the question.