Recieved,a MCOL, for 2 kittens I sold Please any help appreciated.

[Desperate Daniella]

With regard to mediation, as you are defending when you have done that the Court will write to you asking if you wish to consider mediation and arrange it if both parties are agreeable.

[Julie Ishers]

ok thankyou, I shall do it online this weekend, I shall do a rough copy of what I am going to write first, then do it, I really do not dispute the vet fees as I know how expensive they can be, I dispute as to why the vet sent the kitten home, obviously he must not of been well enough, though I did receive an email from the lady saying he was home, and running around the house and would send me a picture as soon as he stays still

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Julie,

 

You don't have to do the Defence just yet. You get 28 days to send that in. It's just the Acknowledgment of Service that has to be dealt with now.

 

I personally think the whole thing sounds very suspicious.

 

One minute the cat is ill, and the next thing is that he is running around the house and clearly extremely lively, and then he dies. Then the other one apparently dies.

 

You had offered to help with the vet fees, but they have issued a Claim.

 

It's really very important that you get clear copies of the invoices, and then I would actually call the vet to confirm that they are genuine. I'd also say that you want a written report.

[honeybee13]

Hello again, Julie.

 

I have a question for the legal minds and hope it's relevant. Could the lady who bought the kittens have mitigated her losses by taking out insurance?

 

I haven't bought a kitten recently, but when we bought our dog, he was covered from day one.

 

HB

[Julie Ishers]

Yes you can sort out insurance for a new pet prior to collection, a lovely lady collected her kitten from me last year and had already sorted out insurance for him, which was fantastic as her naughty kitten decided to get his ;leg stuck between the radiator and the wall ! he broke 2 toes trying to get his leg out and had weeks of treatment for his injury, and without insurance the lady would of had a bill of £700..... my partner recently bought a puppy and also sorted out insurance prior to collection, some vets offer 4 weeks free insurance cover if you have their jabs done by them, but I have read nightmare stories about people trying to claim for an illness within that period and being told they had not been with the insurance provider long enough, but again I have never experienced this, I have many years ago bought a new pet, who became very very ill within 5 days of me having him, and after hundreds and hundreds of pounds spent on tests galore, he was found to have a brain tumour....not the breeders fault at all but I never even got a reply to the letter I wrote her,

 

I just cannot get over the fact that the vet sent the kitten home knowing there was another kitten at home, surely they must of truly believed that they had totally cleared the illness....surely

[maddiemay]

Hi Julie, not a lot I can add, but just here to offer support. I cant imagine how you must be feeling, having nurtured these little kittens for 2 months.

 

In my opinion you cannot be held responsible for their deaths, and I'm sure a judge isn't going to rule against you on the basis of the cause being 'possibly this or that'. I feel sure he/she would need proof of the actual cause, and if you could have known about whatever it was before selling them.

But the problem is, the cause cannot be established.

 

I think it's the vet that should be getting the claim form, not you!

Take care x

[Julie Ishers]

Oh thankyou so much that is so helpful and thoughtful of you just to even respond, I too think that the vet should be getting the claim form, I would sell my body on the streets if I had to pay this bill, if only I could get over the fact that the vet let kitten one home......it is going through my mind over and over....why?

[steampowered]

If you are worried about what to write as your Defence, you are welcome to post up a draft here first if you like. You have a bit of time if you are moving promptly and if you acknowledge service. To me this claim sounds pretty hopeless based on what you have posted so far ... assuming what you posted earlier is the POC it reveals no clear legal basis for the claim.

[Julie Ishers]

Thankyou, I shall do a rough copy and post it here, I have started to write it, but keep letting my feelings get in the way I am far too soft....I wont even go out for a slap up meal if my chickens have not gone to bed, which annoys everyone that knows me as they usually end up chasing them around the garden ! as I say, I too am deeply saddened by all of this, but the fact that the vet said he was ok to go home is haunting me.

[steampowered]

Its not your responsibility. Sometimes animals get ill and die, unfortunately that's life. That' a risk you take when you buy a kitten. Obviously the vet was wrong to let the kitten go home, but easy for us to say that now with the benefit of hindsight.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Julie,

 

Have you spoken to the vet directly, or is this just what the buyer says? I'm a bit confused.

 

DD

[Julie Ishers]

ok this is what I have done so far:

 

In response to this claim I would like to respond as follows:

 

Firstly the kittens were collected on the 14th December and not the 16th as the claimant has stated. I am not a business breeder, it is a hobby, and I have never had any thing like this happen in the last couple of years. Most litters are on average 4 or 5 kittens and last year I had 2 litters, one litter of 4 and a litter of 3, which is the litter that this case refers to. May I add at this point that the third kitten from this litter is alive and very well and living in Edinburgh and has never had a days sickness since he was collected 48hrs prior to the 2 kittens in question. The fact that the third kitten is well and happy, makes me wonder why a vet would state that the 2 kittens died 'probably' due to Feline Parvo... as the third kitten has never been ill. The reason the claimant approached me for a kitten was because she had brought a relative/friend previously that year to choose a kitten, the claimant loved the kittens and met my cats and enjoyed her visit, her friend/relative chose 2 kittens, and they are perfectly well and healthy and I did receive pictures of them settled in their new home.

 

The day prior to the 2 kittens in this case were collected, I wormed them, they of course had been wormed regularly but I like to worm them before they leave my care. On rare occasions a kitten can have a reaction to the worming syrup, one of the kittens was sick twice on the day of their collection (14th December) I informed the claimant immediately that one had been sick that morning, and if they had any worries at all I would of kept them both with me until there were no more signs of sickness. The claimant stayed for an hour, we chatted and she watched the kittens playing etc, she then decided to take them home.

 

On the 15th December I received an email stating that the kittens didn't seem to have a good appetite, which they certainly did whilst they were in my care....but sometimes, the travel and new surroundings can upset an animal, so I replied saying keep trying their favourite, which was chicken breast, they will hopefully soon settle. If I had wanted to deceive the claimant I would not of informed her that one of the kittens had indeed been sick the morning of collection.

 

I received an email on the 16th December informing me that kitten 1 had been taken to the vets, I was told that he was receiving treatment for either Feline Parvo or Pertonitis, he was kept at the vets and received treatment. On the 19th December he was sent home, the email I received stated, 'He is home!!! the vet stated it was a 'bit of flu and a tummy parasite' I was overjoyed with the news, the claimant stated 'I will send you a picture as soon as he sits still !

 

No mention of vet fees were mentioned at this point, the claimant stated she just wanted me to know that all was well. May I also add that at no point was I contacted giving me the option of asking for the kittens to be returned to me, I was informed about the visit to the vets after the event, I would of had the kittens back here with me in a heartbeat.

 

The next email I received was on the 27th December, informing me sadly that the kitten had died!! he had died on the 23rd December, I was not informed until 4 days after he had lost his life, I was horrified to hear this as I was told he was fit and well. I was very shocked as the vet had released him and therefor must of given him the all clear especially as he knew they had another kitten at home. Again there was no mention of the vet fee's.

 

I was then emailed on the 30th December informing me that the second kitten had died, and the vet has stated 'it was probably Feline Parvo' no definite cause was given. And again I must state why did the vet release kitten 1 knowing there was another kitten in the home, he must of made the decision that the kitten was clear of any illness...surely?

 

Again I have to mention the third kitten who is happily living his life in Edinburgh and of course was raised with the other 2 kittens, he has no signs of any illness at all.

 

No post mortem was performed on either kitten, so neither I nor the claimant has any answers as to what really happened, I totally understand how upsetting this must of been for them, but I had spent the last 9 weeks caring for these babies so I was totally devastated,.

 

I must point out again that at no time was I asked if I would contribute towards the vet fees. and as the kitten was taken to the vets before I was informed I had no say in the matter. Also I can not comprehend why the vet released the kitten knowing there was another kitten at home. He/she must of given the kitten a clean bill of health.

 

Without a post mortem, no one can truly say what happened to the brothers, all I can say is that they recieved bundles of love and care from me.

 

I was then emailed stating that they wanted me to pay the vet fees, but I feel that as I was not given the option to agree with the treatments or to have the babies back, and the fact that I was only informed after the event etc, and that no definite cause of death has been established, that I am not liable for these costs.

 

I did state that I would contribute towards the fees, but an amount has never been agreed.

[Julie Ishers]

Yes sadly animals can become ill, but it is all very sad, the lady was lovely, which is making it hard for me to argue, but I have to. And how could any one prove a vet was wrong, that's the problem.

[andydd]

Its prob timew to stop saying the lady is lovely, etc..she has after all starting a court calim against you. You should deal with her in a fair, professional manner from now.

 

Someone cant just start a claim asking someone for money, there has to be a legal basis, now if you had sold the kittens knowing or suspecting they were ill then it would be different, but you sold two kittens, they appeared healthy, you had various checks done or at least option of vacciniation, that is your responsibilties fulfilled. They are not like a washing machine that breaks down, this would be unacceptable as the machine would clearly be expected to last a few months/years, this is not the case with animals, I have a friend whose kitten recently became ill and died..it happens unfortunately.

 

You were under no real obligation to pay some vet fees or refunds, if you did then perhaps it should of been noted that this was full n final settlement, or at least marked without prejudice save as to costs, now it appears the claimant is coming back for more.

 

Send off the A of S, and we can help with a defence.

[Desperate Daniella]

That is a start and we can amend it a bit. It needs to be shorter.

 

But am I right in thinking you have not spoken to the vet yourself?

 

And you must get legible copies of those invoices!!

[Julie Ishers]

Hi I have not paid anything towards the vet fess, I paid her the cost of the kittens she bought from me, an amount has never been agreed, I know they are not like a household item that we purchase, but I did feel that I should reimburse her for the cost of the kittens. I too have also bought pets in the past that have sadly died, but have never had any help from either the breeder or any one else, as you said sometimes you just have to think it happens......

[Julie Ishers]

Hi no I have not spoken to the vets, as I do not think I should as I am very angry about the fact that they released the first kitten, I shall try and get my partner to look at the copies of the receipts and see if he can enlarge them, I am not arguing with them other the costs of the vet bills, and I know they will of kept them safe so that they can use them in their defence, I just do not agree to the claim...I immediately paid them the money for the kittens, and I did feel I should offer to contribute, but I now believe they would not accept that as they are claiming the full amount.

[steampowered]

Your Defence needs to be shorter and more concise. I was thinking more along the lines of something like this:

 

'It is admitted that the Defendant purchased two kittens from the Defendant on xxx. The Defendant is a private breeder and was not operating a business. No warranty or guarantee was given in relation to the kittens' health or at all. The Claimant visited the Defendant's home on xxx and made a full inspection of the kittens before purchasing them.

 

The kittens were healthy when sold. The kittens' (brother/sister) is still owned by the Defendant and is completely healthy. It is averred that any illness must have been contracted after the kittens left the Defendant's care. Illness occurring after the kittens were sold is completely outside the Defendant's control. The Defendant can neither admit nor deny the nature of that illness and the Claimant is put to proof of the same.

 

The Defendant fully complied with the contract. The Particulars of Claim does not disclose any sound legal basis for bringing this claim. It is denied that the Defendant is liable to the Claimant.'

 

The he-said she-said stuff should go into your more detailed witness statement which comes later. You should have a read of the recent thread on this which concerned an almost identical claim.

[Julie Ishers]

Does that sound like someone is doing it on my behalf? I am worried that if I sound cold towards this the Judge will think im awful ;(

[steampowered]

Its a standard format for Defences so I don't think you should be too concerned. You can say "I" instead of "the Defendant" if you are uncomfortable.

 

I think it is best to keep Defences concise and legal. Legal minds are trained to think about the legal basis, judges don't look at the personal stuff too much and don't decide cases based on who they think is a nicer person. The personal stuff goes into the witness statement which comes later in the process. You will also find there is a very small character limit for entering your Defence on MCOL, keeping it short saves you from mucking about with having to serve a separate paper Defence and filing a certificate of service for that.

[Julie Ishers]

ok many thanks I shall copy that down, should I say that have paid them in full for the kittens ?

[steampowered]

You could add that you refunded in full as a gesture of goodwill if you wish, though I don't think it is necessary for the Defence as not directly relevant to the vet fees issue.

[Julie Ishers]

oh ok god this is an awful thing to go through......ive never had to deal with anything legal before and its awful.

[steampowered]

Its not very nice but nothing to get worried about. There is a very clearly defined process to go through and you can get the help you need to complete the various court documents on CAG. As long as you properly follow the court process you should be just fine.

[Julie Ishers]

Thankyou x