un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

[Lizzy]

Hard one.....you could try both except the N1 claim will cost. Send Surlys letter to all the lenders with defaults (recorded post) and see what happens.

 

All my notifications have gone as well, even the little box by the side to say what posts I've posted on. Tis a pain. Whats webmaster ?

[un1boy]

Thanks Lizzy, think I'll just send the company surly's letter, hehe.

 

Check your email account's blocked senders - make sure that webmaster@consumeractiongroup.co.uk is not in the list. If it is, remove it and your notifications will come back to you!!

 

Let me know how you get on!

[Lizzy]

Check this:

 

User CP - Edit Options - Messaging & Notification - Default Thread Subscription

 

This may be set to No Notification.

 

This was the problem un1boy. Still not little box at right hand side of message though. I miss that.

Got loads of emails today after jj was online, phew.

[un1boy]

That's great lizzy, so long as you got it sorted!

[un1boy]

Well, the CRA's have been VERY quiet - I've sent Surly's letter!!

[un1boy]

This was the problem un1boy. Still not little box at right hand side of message though. I miss that.

Got loads of emails today after jj was online, phew.

 

What little box are you talking about?

 

I'm having the same problem again!

[un1boy]

Surly - I got this reply from Experian in response to asking them for free quarterly updates:

______________________

Thank you for your recent email. I trust you are now in receipt of our letter dated 22 September 2006. I attach a copy for your attention.

Dear Un1boy

Thank you for your letter dated 2 September 2006, which has been brought to my attention in the Directors' Office.

I acknowledge your comments stating that ‘as per my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998 that I require that you send me quarterly updates of the information you hold about me'.

 

As I do not believe this is a specific requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Data Protection Act), I would ask you to quote the specific section of the Data Protection Act to which you refer.

 

I do not believe there is any such requirement within the Data Protection Act for us to provide you with a free, regular summary of the type of data we hold about you, the reasons why we hold it, a list of who is supplying that data and a list of every staff member within Experian who has accessed, added, modified, deleted, printed or disclosed your data.

 

Consequently, we will not be complying with your request until such time that you can provide us with details of the specific legislation and we can then look into this matter further.

If you wish to confirm that we are still maintaining our Data Protection Licence and the categories of data we are licensed to hold, this can be obtained from the Information Commissioners web-site: ICO – Information Commissioner's Office

 

Yours sincerely

Mr L J Hancock

Consumer Compliance Executive

Directors' Office

_________________

How sad are they? I asked for a copy of the exact sections regarding my defaults and now they ask me for this, sad sad sad!

[un1boy]

I replied with this:

 

Hello,

 

No, I have not received your letter dated 22nd September yet. I am sure it will be on my doorstep tonight though. I am surprised, that as a data controller you are unaware of your obligations under the DPA, but, as requested I will forward on the exact sections of the DPA which are relevant (even though were mentioned in the letter I sent you, dated 2nd September 2006). I am surprised that you cannot read the DPA yourself, guided by the sections I added in my letter.

 

I require a reply to the email I sent you re: my default removals, to which you have STILL failed to supply me with the exact paragraphs and sections of the relevant acts which give you a legal right to hold my information after the contract has ended.

 

Please can you comply with my original requests. If you have lost them, let me know and I will forward them back to you.

 

Thank you.

[Lizzy]

What little box are you talking about?

 

I'm having the same problem again!

 

Well when I first joined, on the right hand side of the thread that I had put comments on,there was a little box or could have been a note pad. With this I could see straight away without using the User CP which threads had been updated.

 

 

Intresting to see what the CRAs say to your letter now.

 

Lizzy

[SurlyBonds]

Surly - I got this reply from Experian in response to asking them for free quarterly updates:

______________________

Thank you for your recent email. I trust you are now in receipt of our letter dated 22 September 2006. I attach a copy for your attention.

 

Dear Un1boy

 

As I do not believe this is a specific requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Data Protection Act), I would ask you to quote the specific section of the Data Protection Act to which you refer.

 

I do not believe there is any such requirement within the Data Protection Act for us to provide you with a free, regular summary of the type of data we hold about you, the reasons why we hold it, a list of who is supplying that data and a list of every staff member within Experian who has accessed, added, modified, deleted, printed or disclosed your data.

 

 

Part II - Rights of Data Subjects and Others:

 

Right of access to personal data.

7. - (1) Subject to the following provisions of this section and to sections 8 and 9, an individual is entitled-

(a) to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller,

(b) if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of-

(i) the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,

(ii) the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and

(iii) the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may be disclosed,

© to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data, and

(d) where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that decision-taking.

...

(7) An individual making a request under this section may, in such cases as may be prescribed, specify that his request is limited to personal data of any prescribed description.

 

QED

 

However, are you doing this just to antagonise them for the sake of it, or do you genuinely want to know?

 

I would suggest that most people's primary aims are to get the defaults removed and then move on... if we act in a manner as petty as the CRAs, then we destroy our own credibility.

[un1boy]

Surly - thank you!!!!

 

No, am I doing this because I actually want to know! I'm not petty to just annoy them!!

 

Thanks again mate - I owe you so many, lol.

[un1boy]

Hiya,

 

Just had this from a guy called Lee Hancock:

__

 

Thank you for your e-mail received 25 September 2006, which has been brought to my attention in the Directors' Office.

 

We are fully aware of our obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998. I would draw your attention to Section 7(2)(b) of the said Act:

 

(2) A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received-

(a) a request in writing, and

(b) except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

 

The statutory fee for a copy of your credit reference report is £2, the fee for a Data Subject Access Request, which is all the information Experian as a business may hold in your name, is £10. As I previously stated I do not believe there is any such requirement within the Data Protection Act for us to provide you with a free, regular summary of the type of data we hold about you.

 

In your original letter to us this request was made without reference to a particular section of the Data Protection Act 1998. Your subsequent requests regarding the information you required did make reference to specific sections, but not your request for a free quarterly copy of the information.

 

With regards to the other points in your letter, Section 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998 sets out the basic interpretative provisions and definitions of the terminology included within the Act. It does not require us to actually do anything.

 

Section's 17 and 20 of the Data Protection Act 1998 state:

 

17. - (1) Subject to the following provisions of this section, personal data must not be processed unless an entry in respect of the data controller is included in the register maintained by the Commissioner under section 19 (or is treated by notification regulations made by virtue of section 19(3) as being so included).

 

20. - (1) For the purpose specified in subsection (2), notification regulations shall include provision imposing on every person in respect of whom an entry as a data controller is for the time being included in the register maintained under section 19 a duty to notify to the Commissioner, in such circumstances and at such time or times and in such form as may be prescribed, such matters relating to the registrable particulars and measures taken as mentioned in section 18(2)(b) as may be prescribed.

 

With regards to these requests I referred you to the Information Commissioners web-site as this provides an up to date list of the required information. You will also note that Section 20 states we have a duty to notify the Commissioner.

 

Section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998 states:

 

55. - (1) A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller-

(a) obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or

(b) procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data.

 

A copy of the information we hold, obtained under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 will disclose the details of any companies that have viewed the information.

 

I am unable to locate any requirement within the Data Protection Act 1998 for us to provide you with the names of every staff member within Experian who has accessed, added, modified, deleted, printed or disclosed any of your data including dates, times and reasons. Your request for this information also did not reference any particular section of the Act.

 

I am also unable to locate any e-mail from you relating to default removals. However, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 your right to query the information we hold about you is not invoked until you have received a copy of your report under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

If you have any further queries, please feel free to contact me directly either by e-mail at lee.hancock@uk.experian.com, by telephone on 0115 9055453 or by writing to me at the following address:

 

Directors' Office, Experian Ltd, PO Box 8000, Nottingham, NG80 7WF

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Mr L J Hancock

Consumer Compliance Executive

Directors' Office

 

This e-mail has come from Experian, winner of the UK's 'Business of the Year' 2003 and 2005.

 

Find out about The Experian Conference 2006, 16-17 October, at Redirect | Experian UK

______-

 

 

My original letter did make reference to particular sections, except for the staff bit.

 

It would be interesting to hear your views on this Surly?

[un1boy]

Part II - Rights of Data Subjects and Others:

 

Right of access to personal data.

7. - (1) Subject to the following provisions of this section and to sections 8 and 9, an individual is entitled-

 

(a) to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller,

(b) if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of-

(i) the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,

(ii) the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and

(iii) the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may be disclosed,

© to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data, and

(d) where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that decision-taking.

...

(7) An individual making a request under this section may, in such cases as may be prescribed, specify that his request is limited to personal data of any prescribed description.

 

QED

 

However, are you doing this just to antagonise them for the sake of it, or do you genuinely want to know?

 

I would suggest that most people's primary aims are to get the defaults removed and then move on... if we act in a manner as petty as the CRAs, then we destroy our own credibility.

 

Well, I've bene thinking and although I do want this info it's more important that I focus on getting my defaults removed at the moment, so that's what I'm goona do!

 

Company A received my stat notice 21/09/2006 - I haven't heard anything from them yet. Any ideas?

[Tobes]

lol wait 21 days

[un1boy]

Do you know what Tobes? I've just realised that that was a silly question, lol.

 

I'm sorry - my head has been so mashed lately.

 

Cheers for the advice though!

[un1boy]

I've just received this from Equifax ergarding the NTL account:

___

I believe that the two key issues in your correspondence are Equifax’s

right to retain and process your data and your right to request NTL to

cease processing your data and I shall address these in turn.

 

Retention of data

 

It is standard practice agreed by the trade associations and the credit

reference agencies (“CRAs”) that account information is held by the CRAs

for a period of 6 years after the account was last active. The Crowther

Report on Consumer Credit in 1971 expressed support for the view that a

statutory time limit should be considered and suggested that a period of 6

years should be adopted. As this was already the practice of the CRAs it

was decided that statutory recommendations were not required.

 

As you may be aware, the purpose of the personal credit file is to enable

grantors of credit to review the financial history of consumers when they

apply for credit. A lender will take into account an individual’s current

credit commitments and the preceding 6 years of an individual’s credit

history. The reason for this is to encourage responsible lending decisions

by such credit granting institutions and to prevent consumers from becoming

overindebted, which is, as you may know, a considerable concern within the

industry at the moment. As a consequence, this historical information is

highly relevant to lenders for the purpose of credit referencing. It is

therefore the view of both Equifax and the Information Commissioner’s

Office that the retention of this information for 6 years beyond the

closure of the account does not breach the fifth principle that personal

data shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for the purposes it is

used for.

 

For the reasons I have listed above it is Equifax’s view that we are

processing your personal data fairly, within the first principle, on the

grounds that the processing is necessary for the legitimate interests of

the CRAs and the lenders (paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 of the Data Protection

Act).

 

NTL Account

Although the credit agreements are held by the credit reference agencies,

the owner of the information continues to be the financial institution,

and not the credit reference agency. The credit reference agencies are

unable to amend or delete information, unless they have been advised to

do so directly from the data owner. As NTL have not instructed us to remove

the account in question, Equifax have no authorisation to delete this

information without their permission. Therefore , the account, has remained

on your file.

 

I trust this is satisfactory

 

Yours Sincerely

____

 

 

I've given them more than enough time now, so I'm just going to issue the Stat notice. What you think?

[un1boy]

Please read Ntl's reply to my stat notice here:

 

ntl's reply to my stat notice - have they contradicted themselves?

[un1boy]

Please see T-Mobile's response to Surly's letter here:

T-Mobile's reply to my stat Notice

[mackie68]

hi, sorry to jump in your thread, but i have need some clarification ,

 

if after 6 years, of default date, would an unsatisfied account drop out of the CRA's file ?

[un1boy]

hi, sorry to jump in your thread, but i have need some clarification ,

 

if after 6 years, of default date, would an unsatisfied account drop out of the CRA's file ?

 

As far as I understand it, the drop off after 6 years of being put on there - even if it is unsatified. i may be wrong though!

[un1boy]

I've just sent NTL the LBA for the CCA request I sent as they have not provided me with anything requested!

[un1boy]

The weirdest thing just happened - Equifax sent me an email thanking me for my purchase and stating that they have taken a total of £0.00 from my card.

 

The product? My online Credit File ( which cost me £14.99 last time I had it!)

 

Has anyone else had this?

[Bigmac versus]

un1boy very interesting thread and i wish you luck, will keep checking your progress.

[un1boy]

I just had a reply from Equifax. They won't remove the entries and gave me free access to my report to confirm NTL have chagned the entry.

 

Does anyone have any ideas what I should do now? I'm thinking about an N1 form but would really appreciate some advice - no one seems to be helping!! :-/

[un1boy]

ok, so this is their reply to my stat notice:

 

___________________

I write with regard to your email and formal notice of xxxx. Please

accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your correspondence,

this is due to our investigation of the points which you have raised.

 

Within your email you refer to Settled Defaulted accounts on your credit

file relating to T-Mobile and NTL.

 

NTL account

Due to your previous communication with xxxxx, Escalation Advisor,

a Notice of Dispute was raised on xxxx with regards to the NTL

account, whereby Angela requested NTL to investigate and confirm the

accuracy of the information provided to Equifax. On xxxx, NTL

responded and requested that you make contact with their Credit Control

Department in order that they could investigate this matter further, with

your assistance. Due to your comments within your subsequent communication

dated xxxxxwhereby you advised that NTL had since agreed to your

situation, a second Notice of Dispute was raised regarding this account

which once again asked NTL to confirm the accuracy of the information and

to advise if the account should now be amended.

 

A response was received from NTL on xxxxxxwhich confirmed

that the account would be amended to read as Settled, which has now been

done. However NTL would not provide authorisation to remove this account

from our files. I have today released a complimentary credit report via

your MyEquifax membership, to allow you to view the updated information.

 

T-Mobile account

With reference to the T Mobile account, we would be happy to raise a Notice

of Dispute on your behalf. If you wish, I will contact T Mobile to request

an investigation into the accuracy of the information. However, in order to

do so, I will require further details from you as to why you believe this

account to be incorrect.

 

Otherwise, as I have previously explained, we cannot amend the data that is

provided by lenders unless they give us authority to do so.

 

Retention of data

In relation to the retention of your data for 6 years after the account was

last active, I have explained in my email of 5th October why the credit

reference agencies have adopted this process. The fifth data protection

principle states that "personal data processed for any purpose shall not be

kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose".

 

We feel that as it was agreed throughout the credit industry and in

conjunction with the Information Commissioner, that six years is considered

a reasonable amount of time for account data to be retained from the point

that an account is settled/defaulted, we are fully justified in retaining

account data for this period. This is because it enables lenders to make

responsible lending decisions when processing applications by having access

to an individual's credit history over this period. The Information

Commissioner has acknowledged that as this historical information is highly

relevant to the purpose of credit referencing the CRAs are not breaching

the 5th principle by holding this information.

 

You agree that your contract did stipulate that you give permission for the

company concerned to supply credit reference agencies with information

relating to the conduct and payment history of the account. By notifying us

that an account is defaulted, a company is providing Equifax with

information concerning the conduct of that account. This information is

clearly relevant to your credit history and the information can be retained

for six years in the same way that any other closed account data can be

retained for this length of time.

 

If an individual could simply have an account removed at the point that it

became defaulted, there would be little incentive to maintain a good

payment history on that account. The account holder would be aware that

their ability to obtain credit in the long-term would not be compromised

through their failure to meet the terms of the original agreement and this

could lead to more people being less careful in how they manage their

financial affairs. This would ultimately be likely to result in more bad

debt leading to higher interest rates for us all due to the inability of

companies to properly assess applicants and the increased amount of debt

that they would have to write off.

 

Section 10 Data Protection Act 1998

As regards the revocation of your permission for Equifax to continue to

process your data, it is our view, also shared by the Information

Commissioner's Office, that we are able to share account data between

lenders and the CRAs for the duration of the contract and for 6 years

beyond on the basis of paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 of the Data Protection

Act. This states that personal data can be processed where "“The

processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by

the data controller or by the third party or parties to whom the data are

disclosed, except where the processing is unwarranted in any particular

case because of prejudice to the rights and freedoms or legitimate

interests of the data subject.”

 

In your letter of xxxxxx you have referred to Section 10 of the Act

which, as you state, awards the data subject the right to request that the

data controller discontinues the processing and disclosing of his/her data.

Section 10 sub-paragraph (1)(a) and (b) states that the processing of such

data must be likely to cause the data subject substantial damage or

substantial distress, and more importantly that such damage and distress

must be unwarranted. We do not believe that you have established that, or

provided specified reasons why, our continued processing of your data has

caused you substantial damage or substantial distress and that is or would

be unwarranted. We feel that it would be irresponsible of Equifax to

remove your credit history information, as this may result in you being

unable to obtain credit, or being given credit which you would otherwise

not have been able to obtain, which may in turn lead to over-commitment.

 

For the reasons we have set out above we are not able to remove the

defaulted accounts from our systems. I hope I have adequately explained our

reasons for taking this stance. You may want to refer this matter to the

Information Commissioner’s Office. If so, their address is Wycliffe House,

Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire SK9 5AF.

 

_______-