Mandatory Reconsideration letter

[justfornow]

Hi

Can anyone help. My husband has mental health problems, so this is very distressing for him. We received a letter saying that he did not attend a work capability assessment appointment for 9.12.13 " he never received any letter, so he could not go to an appointment" Any way the letter said fill this form in to say why he did not attend, which we did stating the fact that we did not receive such letter, it said fill form in by 18.12.13, I sent the form back the same day.

We have been worried all over christmas.

Then today we receive this letter stating that he will no longer receive his incapacity benefit & income support allowance for not attending his appointment and not giving a good enough reason ?

They call this a Mandatory Reconsideration, and said I can appeal.

I do not know what is going on here, can anyone help please.

My question is does anyone know how long this reconsideration will take.

 

Thank you.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

There are guys here who are very good at explaining the reconsideration process. Please bear with us until they're able to get here.

 

My best, HB

[justfornow]

Hi Honeybee 13,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes I will wait.

Just a bit worried.

Thank you.

[antone]

Here's what's happened, I think:

 

An appointment was (supposedly) scheduled for him, which he didn't attend because he wasn't informed of it. Since he didn't attend, Atos informed the DWP who wrote to him asking for "Good Cause" as to why he didn't show up. He wrote back stating that he received no letter and consequently had no idea he was supposed to be there.

 

OK, that much we know. The "Good Cause" letter would have been passed to a Decision Maker, who hasn't accepted his reason as valid. That surprises me a little - normally "I didn't get the letter" would be accepted the first time it happens. Maybe policy has changed, I don't know.

 

Anyhow, no sense worrying about that now. He must write to them, restating his reasons for failing to attend, and requesting reconsideration. Unfortunately, there's no way to say for sure how long this will take. A few weeks would be normal, but there isn't a time limit on the process, sadly.

[justfornow]

Hi Antone,

 

Thank you for your reply, yes I think that that is exactly what has happened.

Here is a bit about my story.

My problem is he is really not mentally well at the moment, he had a heart attack at the end of 2011, he was in hospital for several days, and that has frightened him a great deal, he is scared of other people and what they may say? His mental health condition got so bad that he was admited to a mental hospital in the middle of the night in 2012, the woman said that they would look after him, and he will be there for several days" and that I should get a well earned break" 7 hours later they sent him home with a sleeping pill to get rest and booked him an appointment with a psychatrist several weeks later"oh and the woman I really Don't know why ? started talking to him about the other patients in the ward, and what they have got wrong with them" this scared him, now he has not spoken to another human being except for me since may 2012.

He is so frightened of every thing I am scared he will go over the edge if he gets an interview, can anyone please tell me if they physically touch him in the interview?

So you see it is going to be an uphill struggle to even get him to the appointment.

Since 2012 I have lost my carers allowance, and he had to go to a tribunal to get his incapacity benefit back, he obviously did not attend, so they have awarded him the lower amount, that took nearly one year, and now this.

The reason I can write this now is because he is a sleeping, he is taking his medication from 2004 which he got when he was sectioned, he will not even go to the doctors or a dentist, he will not have anyone coming to the house either, so I really do not know what to do, I will have to phone them and see what they say, I just wanted some facts first.

Sorry for the long email.

Thank you for any help.

[reallymadwoman]

By all means phone DWP but without your husband's permission they are unlikely to tell you anything. You do need to also write as antone suggested to request reconsideration/appeal.

 

Presumably he is still involved with the community mental health team. Either they or his GP need to write a very strongly worded letter detailing how and why he would not cope with an interview whether at home or elsewhere - they will not take your word for it. They may not take anyone else's word for it either, but you have to try. Ideally you also need a letter from a health professional stating what is wrong with him and how it affects him on a daily basis.

[justfornow]

Hi RMW,

Thank you for your reply.

My husband has not used a phone in 11 years, so I have always contacted the DWP & filled every form in.

He does not know what is happening at the moment, he just knows something is worrying me.

I have not been out of the house since he went into hospital in 2012, "we get all our food delivered".

I used to go to my doctors "we have the same Dr" & tell him how I am feeling, I wrote and told the DWP this but they just sent a standard letter to

the GP about my husbands medication and how many times he has visited him, they missed the details of my visits talking to the GP about my husband. I may be able to go to the GP, if I tell him that I am not feeling well, but he is frightened that they will section him again.

As regards medication, in 2004 my husband was on tablets that made him sleep for 16 hours a day, and he gained a lot of weight, but they did calm him down for a while, so last time 2012

he went to hospital he wanted the same medication, but they would not give it to him.

I contacted our GP who gave me a proscription for one of his tablets, he wont take it now "he feels that it has been contaminated" "since that woman in the hospital spoke to him and has put other thoughts into his head" . that's why he takes his old medication.

He has a great problem with contamination and "thoughts", so much so that if a "thought" came into his head he will think nothing of throwing all his clothes, sheets, pillows chairs etc out.

I have got to try and do anything I can with out having to tell him what is happening, he will be paid up until this Thursday, but I have until 30th to appeal.

It is very hard to phone them because my husband follows me around every room, I will think of a way.

Thank you for your help

[justfornow]

Hi,

 

I have made an appointment to see my GP next week, would it be worth my while getting him to write a letter about how all this stress is affecting my health, my husband will

not go and see him himself.

I really want to avoid telling my husband about what is happening, does anyone know if the DWP will except this letter.

When I phone the DWP on Wednesday, I believe the best they are going to do is to give him another appointment, my great worry is he will not go to it.

Thank you for your help, sorry for so many questions.

[reallymadwoman]

DWP/ATOS will not be interested in the effect on you. Your GP needs to write a letter saying why your husband can't attend an appointment - at the very least that might get you a home assessment and you can deal with that, or rather the assessing doctor can see the effect, when they turn up.

 

Benefit issues aside, I know you're trying your best to protect your husband but your GP should really be providing a lot more support for both of you, but you do need to ask for help. Is it really helping either of you if your lives are being so restricted by your husband's illness? Your husband clearly has some very serious issues but they're not going to just go away if he doesn't have some treatment, and being so reluctant to receive treatment is obviously part of his illness so you might need to effectively ignore his wishes on that point and get help for him anyway. Getting him to accept that help is perhaps more difficult, but that's what the professionals are for.

[justfornow]

Hi RMW,

Thanks for your comment, yes you are right they are not interested in me.

As regards getting more help for both of us, the last time I virtually forced him to get help, he had a heart attack, as it is now his blood pressure goes through the roof if he gets upset, so I really can not afford to put him through this stress.

Anyway here is the update of what I have done today.

I phoned the number on the letter, and spoke to a "Robot" he said that someone will explain the decision to me over the phone as long as my husband gives his permission, I told him that my husband has not used a phone in over 11 years, he then said that I have to write to them, with his signature saying that I am his appointee, I told him that I have always spoke to people from the DWP over the years, and not one person has asked me this?

The man could not be bothered talking to me.

So this is what I now have to do, I have to write to the :- Decision maker, Benefits Delivery Centre, Wolverhampton.

Stating what has happened, and saying I want to be my husbands appointee.

Does this sound right.

Thank you again.

[**Margaret**]

:justfornow:

 

Some bits of what you've written aren't quite making sense. If you can clarify a couple of points we'll be better placed to help you and your husband.

 

Who's signing forms/letters for Jobcentreplus? And how come they're accepting calls from you about his affairs? Either your husband's got a limited knowledge of what's happening or you're his Work n Pensions appointee (possibly following the 04 section) or there's a third party authority in place for you to talk to Jobcentreplus on his behalf.

 

Whoever's in charge of managing his benefit claims, here's some pointers for getting this termination revised;

 

Apply in writing, via recorded delivery, for a mandatory reconsideration. (Jobcentreplus have declined to accept a time limit on mandatory reconsiderations.)

 

As the decision maker has to consider 'the claimant's state of health at the relevant time' and 'the nature of any disability the claimant has' anything you can get from his doctor, even if it's only confirmation of a diagnosis from a subject access request for his medical records, should help.

 

The assessment he's missed would have been for a conversion award of employment n support allowance in place of his incapacity benefit topped up by income support/income support in lieu of incapacity benefit. But the appointment letter won't have been the first letter sent to him. There should have been an initial letter from your husband's benefit delivery centre about the change, followed by an ESA50 questionnaire (example below) from Atos. Seen either of them? Or is there a chance your husband didn't let you see them cos he couldn't cope with the thought of an assessment?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/esa-50-limited-capability-for-work-questionnaire

 

If you believe the letters didn't arrive, notify problems with the post to Royal Mail and sent a copy of your complaint with the request for mandatory reconsideration. Postal problems are an acceptable good cause for 'failure to attend'.

 

In the request for mandatory reconsideration tell Jobcentreplus you've submitted a separate subject access request for your husband's claim history, including the contact history with Atos, which isn't always correct. And do so. You're unlikely to get a response before the end of the month but it may come in useful if there's an appeal to the Tribunals Service.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

 

An Atos assessor can't physically touch your husband without his consent, and if his claim's entirely for mental health shouldn't need to. But you may need to be persistent with an explanation of that to him/her.

 

Right, that's as far as we can get for the moment with the benefits issue. One way or another it's really important for you to get help with your husband's mental health issues. What happened to the follow up from the 2012 admission to hospital? If there's no current contact with mental health services, your doctor should be helping you, like yesterday.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

And now I'm even more confused. How have you been managing to talk to Jobcentreplus for eleven years without appointee status or a third party authority? Here's some info about appointees, but you can't wait for that to be sorted before getting your husband's signature on a request for reconsideration.

 

https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits

Edited January 14, 2014 by **Margaret**

[reallymadwoman]

Justfornow,

 

Starryeyes aka Margaret knows what she's talking about re ATOS and DWP and is providing excellent information as always.

 

Once again though, benefit issues aside, I am very worried that you and your husband are basically just surviving and not living. I can understand why you are worried that trying to force treatment on your husband might have unacceptable consequences but whilst there is a chance that treatment could improve things for both of you it has to be at least worth a try, surely?

[justfornow]

Hi Margaret,

 

I am sorry I did not write last night, I can not always use the computer freely.

I will answer your questions in a minute, I thought I would give you a little back ground first.

 

My husband has had mental health issues since he was 17, he was sectioned at 18 then given all sorts of medication and seen a physiatrist for a few years.

He was then well enough to cope with life, he meet me at 21. He became an engineer and all was well, then in 2003 a member of our family died he just could not cope, he had sever OCD and lots of other mental health issues including throwing all the bed linen, chairs tables clothes, cds Video tapes you name it he through it out. He then would not eat and by xmas 2003 he would not even swallow his saliva , so I by-passed his doctor at the time and took him to A&E myself, they admitted him to hospital over xmas, he got the rest he needed, they gave him medication and an appointment to see our local mental health workers at our local centre. This was going ok for about 3 months, until a nurse said something to him that freaked him out so much that he would rather run home "about 3 miles away" than to stay there. He has never been back since nor would he go down the road that the building was in.

Since then he has changed his GP, to mine, and he was just coping and was getting better, then we had noisy neighbours move in, we both did not know what had hit us. he just went down and down until he had his heart attack, then several months later he just could not cope and was taken again to A&E but this time I had phoned the mental hospital ward up first and they told me to leave him for a few days, and for me to get a break, he was not sectioned so he was free to walk out and, so he did.

He is now on his old medication, which he takes now and again when he gets stressed.

I would not know anything about careers allowance or incapacity benefit if it was not for a hospital worker who came to my house in 2004 when my husband was still in hospital, she saw what furniture we had left and gave me all these form to fill which I did and I became his career, this stopped two years ago, and they said he was not sick enough, I took it to a tribunel and lost because we did not turn up "which I already told them about" then it went to the upper tier tribunal, and they awarded him the lower level, and back dated his money that was about a year ago, and now this.

Any way to answer your questions:-

I have always signed every form we have ever got, I sign it with his signiture "obviously this is not right, but I will not put him under the stress".

I have not been made his appointee, when he got sectioned they just released him into my care.

The appointment that was arranged was for 9 December, never received any letter. I open all the mail, he will not be "Contaminated" he also makes me wash my hands if we receive any mail? so there is no way he got rid of it.

I received a letter on 14 th saying that he missed his appointment and for him to fill the back of the form in with the reason, which I did, and sent it off the same day. All over christmas I was just waiting for there reply. then I get this letter stating :- I am sorry to inform you that you are not entitled to employment and support allowance, I appreciate you will be concerned about what this means for you ansd will want to know what happens next.

The decision was made because you did not attend the work capability assessment appointment on 9 Dec 2013 and did not give a good reason why you did not attend.

If you think the decision is wrong get in touch with us by phone or writing within one month of the date of the letter" which is dated 30 Dec 2013.

I can appeal against the decision but not before they have looked at the decision again. They call this a Mandatory Reconsideration.

I have looked at the ESA 50 questionnaire it does look familiar, in February last year I did fill a form from ATOS in but heard nothing till now.

I go to our GP and talk about my husband, my husband, and some of his problems, but that's it. I can not make him go.

I have been speaking to DWP in Blackpool or Jobcenre plus and they have just talked to me, on the very few occasions they have said that they will put the information in a letter, it has worked for us for 11 years.

Subject access request, I will do this. While his tribunal was happening over the last two years they have sent us copies of papers that they hold on him, is this the same thing?

 

I would like to thank you Margaret for your help, it really is appreciated I am so tied, and I just do not sleep very well, the last thing we need know is this.

I really do understand people saying get your husband some help, and if I was looking from the outside in I too would say the same, but every time I have tried to get him helps he goes back so many steps, then I am left to cope with him by myself, so I have sort of got used to him asking me "things" hundreds of tiimes a day, and I am so tied that I can not be doing with more upset.

What a great site this is with nice caring people on here.

I am so sorry for the long email I hope you can make sense of it.

Thank you again with all your help.

[Mr.P]

I don't have any advise to offer beyond the following:

 

Have you considered using Lasting Power of Attorney over your husband's affairs - Having LPA can simplify dealing with finances and health without having to constantly argue with assorted bodies.

 

Have a look at https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/lasting-power-of-attorney-forms for further information - Whilst there is a cost involved, you may well find you qualify for exemption from the fees.

[justfornow]

Hi Mr P,

Thank you very much for this information.

I have just had a very quick look at the link, and he does qualify for exemption as of today, but ALL his benefits stop tomorrow.

He is a sleep now but I expect him to wake up in about an hour "he was up most of the night" that is why it is hard to get on the computer let alone do all this by tomorrow, so I will probably have to pay.

I will try and look at all my options.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

[justfornow]

Hi Mr P,

I have printed the forms out, I have just got to find time to fill them in.

I noticed on the LPA form it says that I wife can not be a witness, to the signature of the signee, have I read this right.

I am trying to fill the forms in, and keep my husband from finding out.

I thought I would just ask the question, because if I needed a witness, I could not get one.

Thank you.

[justfornow]

Hi All,

I was filling out the form for LPA, when it says that I need two witnesses, I do not know anybody, it is only my husband an I.

So then I thought I would just apply "as advised to do so, in my phone conversation with the DWP" to be his appointee, I was about to fill out form BF 56

when it says :- The DWP arranges to visit the claimant to assess if an appointee is needed.

Do they really do this, if so then my husband will not let anyone in the house "he has a very great fear of contamination"

I do not know what to do now.

I just feel very down and ill, he can feel that something is wrong and this in turn is not letting him sleep well, which is not letting me sleep.

So to recap, the DWP says that he missed an interview, so now he is well enough to work? He has "as of today" been left with no benefits?

This is just clasping at straws but, what about last year when he won his tribunal at the upper tier, they had all his medical history, and they said he was still ill enough to award him DLA, "all be it at a lower level" I wonder if this will help.

Also I just remembered that about four or five years ago, he did go to a DWP medical, and the Dr took one look at him and said " I do not know why they keep sending people like you here" and ended the interview. The interview lasted about one minute, but my husband would not go out of the house for about three months afterwards, and he throw ALL his clothes away including his shoes, he is much worse now.

So I am going to try everything I can, so that he does not have to go to one of these interviews, because it will be really detrimental to his health, and mine, as it is always me who picks up the pieces.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

[antone]

A visit is not always required to determine whether or not an Appointee is appropriate, but since it would allow you full control over your husband's benefit matters, including which account any money is paid into, you can see why they're a bit careful about these things.

 

Now, I appreciate that things are difficult, but so far you have effectively rejected, out of hand, all the help that's been offered to you here. And you do need help. You need help - coping with this situation is not something you can do alone and you must appreciate this. My first thought would be to contact the charity Mind for personal support for you, as the carer of someone with severe problems.

 

But in terms of practical matters, here's the thing: you need to find a way around this, and it will involve doing things that your husband won't like, for example, talking to people, using the computer, making phone calls, accepting DWP visits, dragging him to Atos appointments (or perhaps seeking to have an assessor visit him at home) and so on.

 

In short, you need more help than an online forum can provide, and you need it very quickly.

 

Start here.

[Beatrice Bee]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48680[/ATTACH]

[antone]

Beatrice, please stop this. If you wish to talk to us, you are welcome here. If you wish to talk at us and post screeds and JPEGS while rarely, if ever, noticing what people say in response, then that's a problem.

 

So stop it, please.

[justfornow]

Thank you

[Beatrice Bee]

just realized lady's husband is receiving esa, not jsa, so posted the wrong info.

i only mean to help by posing screen shots of relevant legislation and do notice and react to what people say to my response.

[antone]

just realized lady's husband is receiving esa, not jsa, so posted the wrong info.

i only mean to help by posing screen shots of relevant legislation and do notice and react to what people say to my response.

 

Right. You clearly have knowledge, and that is welcome, don't get me wrong. We always appreciate people who know what they're talking about. But please, please, check out the context of the thread before posting.

[**Margaret**]

:justfornow:

 

Seems like an appointment letter from Atos didn't arrive and to add insult to injury your 'good cause' response letter got lost on it's way to the decision maker's desk. At reconsideration stage it's nigh on impossible to prove whether letters were sent/received, but there's ways to improve the chances of revision.

 

Written request for mandatory reconsideration, sent via recorded delivery. It can be from you and signed by you but, as you've no authority to manage your husband's claims, the letter needs his signature as well. Carry on like you have been doing, and you'll have no income whatsoever!! Start with the details of when and where the 'good cause' letter was posted, and when Jobcentreplus should have received it. Explain that as a responsible carer you wouldn't have ignored a letter from Atos. That given the circumstances you'd have contacted Atos for the possibility of a home visit, cos your husband's mental state means he never leaves the house. Enclose a copy of your subject access request so the decision maker knows you've asked for it.

 

Send the subject access request, via recorded delivery, in a separate envelope. (Lessens the chance of Jobcentreplus losing it.) In the box at the top of the third page of the form, specify that you want the contact history with Atos. Details of all calls and letters!

 

'...... copies of papers that they hold on him, is this the same thing?' Not quite. That would be the paper work for his tribunal for disability living allowance. At the moment you want the paperwork for his incapacity benefit/employment n support allowance. Unfortunately, neither his award of disability living allowance nor his last personal capability assessment will help with this 'failure to attend'.

 

Once you've dealt with the request for mandatory reconsideration, please follow :antone:'s advice. I was going to offer similar advice, but he beat me to it. And I agree with the earlier advice from :reallymadwoman: You can't cope with this without medical intervention. You'll end up a prisoner in your own home without any income.

 

A couple of alternatives if you can't get through to Mind;

 

http://www.rethink.org

 

http://ocduk.org

 

Neither appointee status nor power of attorney can be done without your husband's consent and witnesses. Unless it's on medical grounds if he's judged incapable of managing his own affairs. Neither is a do it yourself job. You need to get some advice from one of the sites above and tell it to your doctor as you've told it to us. All the bits about not being allowed to use the phone, have visitors to the house, etcetera.

 

Time to be kind to yourself.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited January 17, 2014 by **Margaret**

[osdset]

With regard to SAR requests. My local BDC says they never received my original request so I posted off four copies all delivery signed for to, Caxton House, my local BDC, my local JCP, and Glasgow BC (who apparently actually process claims for my area).

 

Guess which one remains undelivered? The one addressed to my local BDC.