Advice needed on off work with work related stress.

[animation1]

OK here goes long story short, i work for a big big international company and i am off on work related stress due to my manager and other goings on which i 'whistle blew' about, basically bit of background it was due to people doing things they shouldnt and cheating (i work in sales) which was affecting me and my targets and thus my livelyhood, i blew the whistle and since then i have been ostrasied and picked on and single out by my manager, things came to ahead with 3 suspensions withing my team of 9 people, and i had issues with sleepless nights head aches and went to Dr's and got signed off with stress.

 

So then have holiday officially booked during being off with stress, so Dr says to go on holiday and relax away from work, so i do and in mean time despite logging my stress with absence line (its automated so no need to tak to manager) i when prompted said NO to the question 2do you want your manager to contact you about this absence", despite that he tried to call me but i missed all calls as my phone was shoved away for holiday, anyway i return from holiday to be met with a letter from manager saying words to the effect

 

"not answering phone calls from manager even whislt off sick can result in gross misconduct, if you dont call manager by 8th august we shall stop your salary payment for the month"

 

Can this actually be allowed?

 

help..... sorry for ramble and any bad grammer, please go easy on me, very worried about this...

[becky2585]

Hello,

 

It sounds like a nightmare! Were you away during your annual leave or at home? They shouldn't be contacting you if it's pre booked annual leave. Of course you do also have the right to rearrange the annual leave as you were off sick.

 

Might be worth a formal grievance about the treatment by your boss.

[animation1]

Thanks for the reply, yes i am going down the grievance route, also feel this has put me under more stress yet again due to this manager basically spent a weekend both stressed, nervous and just anxious about everything, not great considering my Dr advised me to take the break and after the holiday go back to work, but now i feel im actually feeling worse!

 

Points are :

Manager knew i was off with stress a did speak to him

logged it with the absence line as first point of call as company policy

requested no calls from manager via that (an option they give you)

 

yet he kept trying to call me?? then tells me he can do gross misconduct and stop my pay (of which i'd already worked for anyway!!)

 

Its not like i was AWOL, and even worse...i was on official holiday anyway all booked...if someone is on holiday do they HAVE to answer calls from work??

 

christ...im stressed..

[SweetLorraine]

Hi animation1,

 

you were on sick leave at the time and you had requested that you should not be contacted. Your manager has not complied with your request. He may not have known that you had made that request - it might be worth referring him to that stipulation.

 

You may find that if you had a pre-booked holiday, that subsequently falls during a period of sick leave, that all that leave counts as sick leave - not a mixture of holiday and sick leave (that was certainly the case when I worked for my ex-employer). So you may not have 'lost' that annual leave during your sick leave.

 

For longer term sickness leave (at my old job) managers were expected to maintain some sort of contact with anyone who was off on sick. Not unreasonable I suppose - if nothing else it was meant to demonstrate they were being supportive. (Hmmm, of course)

 

If you are covered by a valid doctor's note at the time of the manager's calls (and subsequent letter) I am puzzled as to how your company thinks it can withdraw your salary? Was the letter written by HR or the manager? They may well have overstepped the mark.

 

How long have you been off on sick leave? Are you due back to work soon?

[animation1]

Thank you for your reply, yes i have been off since 25th July, during that time i have spoken to manager regards sick note and also i left message on his phone as he didn't answer it a few times, i feel its not like i was off for months and he could get in contact and a simple check of my holiday record would of told him that i was possibly away and not able to even get to a phone!

 

letter was from manager only, no mention of HR.

 

Anyway i am making making official complaint and as i say its a long old story and this is the tip of iceberg but theres more...

[SweetLorraine]

Hi animation1,

 

what period of time did your doctor's note cover?

[Grotesque]

SweetLorainne is correct that any booked annual leave is subsumed into any sick leave it falls within; likewise you DO have a duty to 'keep in touch' with the Employer (and likewise, them with you- it demonstrates- Ha! 'Duty of Care'). You definitely need to put in a IGP, but- when the formal process is exhausted, be aware of Whistleblowing protection (e.g., here and here) and also against Victimisation (here and here).

 

Good luck!

[animation1]

OK thanks for the advice, so regards the holiday then if my Dr's note covers me from 25th onwards over my holiday then its classed as sickness, thats fine then as Dr's note covers it anyway.

Having checked my phone i logged stress leave on 25th July, he tried to call my phone 2 times on 1/08/13, then we spoke on the 08/08/13 regards the letter. So in reality he tried to call me 2 times and didnt get through to me......

Also he sent the letter recorded post to be signed for on the 7/08/13, the letter said "unless you call me by 2pm on 08/08/13 you will have your pay stopped till further notice"

Now that's not giving me much chance is it, less than 24 hours!

 

I really really cant believe this.

[Grotesque]

Hey, be positive. The more procedural errors the company makes, the stronger your case becomes. Have they docked your money yet? When / if they do, you should file a claim for Unlawful Deduction of Wages. The amount of contact between staff and managers whilst off sick with stress should be a reasonable amount, and should not undermine the employment relationship (which then generally leads to constructive dismissal claims etc, but don't be thinking that far ahead!!!).

[SweetLorraine]

Well, you did speak to your manager on the 8th, that is good, how did that pan out? Hopefully the non-payment of salary is no more than an 'idle' threat. Try to put this (side) issue to bed as soon as you can.

 

With regards to the main bigger issues - I went down the whistleblowing route in my old workplace. I went through some of the things you are now experiencing. The employees I reported were removed from the organisation sometime afterwards (as part of a wider investigation into corruption and racist behaviour), yet my manager's manager still viewed them as 'good blokes'. (Each to their own!!!). Work became very uncomfortable for me after that.

 

I'm a long time gone from that place nowadays. I'd just like to offer you a few thoughts that I hope might help you right now.

 

Sometimes you can forget about yourself if you are constantly warring with others in work. Support processes that should be there aren't, or denied to you, and people that should support you don't. You can freefall. An action by management can seem like a covert attack, you can read too much into situations, you can start to fight little wars on several fronts. Colleagues may shun you, or worse still seek to undermine you.

 

And all the time there is the constant pounding thought that you aren't the one that did something wrong. You can really bring a lot of pressure onto yourself, too much sometimes. It can be exhausting. It can be very bad for your mental and physical health.

 

So please don't lose yourself in all of this. Do ask yourself what would it take to resolve these problems at work? Do you think such resolutions can be achieved at work? Would moving to another job be the best thing in the long-term? What would bring you peace of mind?

[animation1]

Well i have been in contact with a legal bod on employment law and they are pretty outraged by the letter stating they can stop my salary, they said its a case for harassment, also as i'm off with stress due to being victimised by this manager and basically getting bullied out of the job they said to go guns blazing with grievance etc etc.

 

So i am, thanks for all the support from here.

 

As an aside i give you an indication of this managers style, the 2 colleges of mine who are suspended from work, my manager they other week was sat by the board with all our names on and their names with crosses against them, then i looked and saw he was drawing little pictures of grave stones with RIP on them next to their names!! I said something about it and he just laughed it off and made some jokes about it then rubbed them off.....

Theres more and more stuff that is aimed at victimizing me personally but thats not a way a manager should conduct themselves during a tough time at work where friends are being suspended.

[Grotesque]

Unbelievable! Yep, hit 'em where it hurts, bruv. Good luck!

[SweetLorraine]

Hi animation1,

 

you seem to be on safe ground with the letter issue. That should be a relief. You should come out on top on that battle, but what about the war?

 

Do please think through what you might consider as an acceptable solution for the other troubles you are experiencing at the moment.

[animation1]

Hi animation1,

 

you seem to be on safe ground with the letter issue. That should be a relief. You should come out on top on that battle, but what about the war?

 

Do please think through what you might consider as an acceptable solution for the other troubles you are experiencing at the moment.

 

Yes i hear what your saying, for me i just want to go back to how it was 2 years ago when i was loving going into work and being ear marked for management, so for one i never want to be managed by this guy again so a team move and i want so answers and acceptance that the things i was speaking out about were for the good of the business, i was whistle blowing on bad behaviors on the sales floor that were cheating the business, basically i know now full well how things went wrong in the banking sector, greed works in dangerous ways and i dont think all sales people should think its a good trait, which sadly some sales floor promote this behavior.

 

Meeting today with union rep and manager to raise grievance.

[animation1]

OK an update on this. Out of my 3 grievances 2 were upheld.

1st one was regards a letter sent to me whilst off with stress suggesting my manager could stop my pay. UPHELD

2nd one regards manager not supporting me whilst i "whistle blew" about malpractice in the work place"... not upheld.

3rd Manager drawing grave stones and skull and cross bones next to names of 2 colleges on suspension from work.. UPHELD

 

So they have said that i am offered to have mediation with my manager and see if we can still work together. Advice i want is having won 2 of my grievances against my manager in reality how can work be with me once i return, for example if i returned and went to mediation with manager if i really felt uneasy or awkward could i say i need to move teams and would they have to listen? Or should i say no to working under my manager at all... do i hold some cards is basically what i'm asking or do i have to just bend back into place like nothing happened?

 

cheers.

[animation1]

Update added in title..sorry.

[SweetLorraine]

....So they have said that i am offered to have mediation with my manager and see if we can still work together. Advice i want is having won 2 of my grievances against my manager in reality how can work be with me once i return, for example if i returned and went to mediation with manager if i really felt uneasy or awkward could i say i need to move teams and would they have to listen? Or should i say no to working under my manager at all... do i hold some cards is basically what i'm asking or do i have to just bend back into place like nothing happened?

 

Hi animation1,

 

well you got two out of three out of the way. I guess you won't know how you stand at work until you return. You might consider asking ACAS to handle the mediation ahead of your return.

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1680

[animation1]

I work in sales for a large business and have just won 2 out of 3 grievances raised against my manager, my question is simply that I've been off work now for 5 months due to the stress and strain of it all and have been paid my basic wage. I am just wondering whether i could push for loss of earnings as in my commission loss?

I don't want to sound mercenary (though i'm sure as i work in sales sympathy for my plight may be some what diminished anyway.. ) but as i have essentially proven that the reason i have been off was due to my managers behaviour can i now have the power to go asking for average commission?

 

regards.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've merged your new thread with the old one, to help the guys who are advising.

 

My best, HB

[animation1]

the new question wont get noticed as much, oh well.

[Emmzzi]

the new question wont get noticed as much, oh well.

 

We do have jobs you know...! Also your back story is very relevant and it is easier for us to advise if we have the full story.

 

You can ask but the only way to find out for sure f its a fair ask is at an ET. Given your recent history of stress I would suggest that may not be a healthy thing for you to do.

 

During the grievance were you asked what you wanted the outcome to be and did you ask for cash at that point?

[honeybee13]

the new question wont get noticed as much, oh well.

 

Hello again. I don't understand why people think this. The minute you post on an old thread, you put it back at the top of the forum. Speaking for myself, I'm just as likely to look at a thread from someone we already know, if not more likely because I want to know how they're getting on.

 

And as Emmzzi says, the back story is important, you get more complete advice.

 

HB

[smokejumper]

A couple of points, if you don't mind me adding my 2 cents worth. I do tend to play devils advocate, I think it helps prepare yourself for sticky questions.

 

Regarding your annual leave, if it is booked on a computer program, then the sick note usually gets in putted and overrides your annual leave and other staff can then take it.

 

So it may be that your manager wasn't aware of the annual leave.

 

You need to check your company policy, it may state that if you are sick and going away, either hols or convalescing, you have to inform the company.

 

On the other hand it is not very helpful for the manager to be contacting you quite so frequently unless he is actually helping you ( which should be decided by you and not him).

 

A letter from your doctor might be helpful, although I find the Dr tend not to like committing themselves and you have to be quite assertive when requesting this letter.

 

I'm in a similar situation and it seems like you are just starting to relax and feel that with time you might get better and BAM a letter lands on the doorstep which undoes all this good work and puts you even further back.

 

I think some of the problem is that people really don't know how you feel, they associate anxiety with say being late for work, then they think it's not so hard to shake it off, but they haven't experienced real anxiety, that can even lead you to suicide, try shaking that one off.

 

Also managers are at work every day and it can feel to them that you have been away a long time, where's you feel a week is like a day or two. They don't understand this anxiety and treat it as if it were flu and therefore after 2 weeks you should be better.

 

Try not to ask your self too many what if questions, just deal with things as they are happening ( to some extent ) I like to get all my little problems out the way first, they are usually easier and then don't feel like they are going to break the camels back ( or should that be donkey ).

 

Forms can be overwhelming, start by filling in your name and address and leave it, next day add another part and so on, then before you know it, it's done.

Try to do something every day, even if it's only the laundry or the washing up ( these are difficult for me, may/will be different for you ).

 

I wish you well and believe you will get through it, don't give up ;-)

 

I think I will go and start on the dishes ;-)