Help with a judgement and visit from HCEO **Partial Refund Obtained**

[puuk-matt]

Hi,

 

Would be very grateful for any advice any one could offer me please.

 

On 25th July 2013 we had judgement entered (quite correctly) against our company for in the amount of £1477.50 against a debt which hadn't been paid. Immediately upon receiving the judgement notice I sent a form N245 back to the court with a reasonable offer of £200.00 per month which is what can currently be afforded to repay the debt.

 

Today 2nd August, have just received a visit to our company address by a High Court Enforcement Officer who has 'seized' goods to the value of the debt and left me with 7 days to pay the debt in full.

 

At the moment this is simply not possible, and whilst I completely understand that the debt should have been paid, I would like to know if there is any way I can prevent further enforcement action and pay at the rate of £200.00 per month as intended on my form N245.

 

Obviously this hasn't been rubber stamped by the court yet, and I'm not sure if now, even if it was rubber stamped, whether it stops any further action.

 

My questions are therefore as follows:

 

1) If the county court agrees my offer of £200.00 per month, does that stop the high court enforcement even though goods have been levyed?

2) Do I attempt to make a deal with the high court enforcement company for the £200.00 per month?

3) Is there an alternative form I can fill in and send off to prevent further action whilst I get some money together to sort this out? (I'm not arguing that this should be paid, just could do with some time to do so.)

 

Any help gratefully received!

 

MW

[HCEOs]

1) If the county courticon agrees my offer of £200.00 per month, does that stop the high court enforcement even though goods have been levyed?

A variation order would stop any enforcement although the creditor may apply to have it overturned if your assets cover the debt.

 

2) Do I attempt to make a deal with the high court enforcement company for the £200.00 per month?

That is not an unreasonable place to start but acceptance will depend on your assets.

 

3) Is there an alternative form I can fill in and send off to prevent further action whilst I get some money together to sort this out? (I'm not arguing that this should be paid, just could do with some time to do so.)

A stay of execution could be applied for in the High Court or District Registry but must be for specific grounds.

 

As you rightly had the judgment entered against you and have been visited by an HCEO, I believe it is only right that you should deal with the HCEO. Others, I'm sure, will disagree.

[sequenci]

What items have been seized?

[ploddertom]

Being a business are the goods seized yours or are they on credit?

[puuk-matt]

We're a high street print and copy shop - the assets seized according to the notice are:

 

'All Goods on premises including:

Computer with monitor,

Laptop,

Photocopiers,

Large Format Printers,

Plotter,

Chairs & Desks'

 

Most of the items are owned - the photocopiers are hired.

[Conniff]

I believe there is a 30 day period after the ccj to satisfy the debt, so I can't see how they can levy a few days after the ccj was issued.

[puuk-matt]

From what I've read the rules seem to be different on transferring a CCJ up to the high court, and 30 days only have to be given if there was a defence filed.

As per my earlier post - I'm not trying to skip out on this debt, I just want if still possible the opportunity to pay in installments and prevent any more visits from the HCEO.

[renegadeimp]

Aren levies meant to be specific items and not just generalised descriptions? From the ops info, the op could just hide the items in the shop and replace them with cheap ones.

 

Technically that is illegal but the HCEO doesnt have any specifics to go on.

[HCEOs]

I wouldn't recommend the above for obvious reasons.

 

I'm surprised the HCEO gave you 7 days with assets like that.

[puuk-matt]

I appreciate that items could probably be hidden etc. but that's not really what I'm trying to achieve and would be more disruptive to the business than anything else.

 

As I said in my original email - can I not file some sort of emergency stay to allow me time to reapply to the court for installments or is it a case that now the HCEO have their claws in my stuff that it's all or nothing.

 

How likely are they to accept an offer - does anyone have any experience with making offers to HCEO's or am I screwed.

 

I look at it from a court etc. point of view as well. If they seize the assets then the business would have to close and as a result all other creditors of the business would lose out, rather than by allowing this debt to be paid by installments, this creditor and because the company carries on trading, all other creditors get paid up.

[HCEOs]

From a personal point of view, I would return to remove goods and I'm sure you'll find the money from somewhere. Enforcement is just that unfortunately.

 

The HCEO will put your offer to the creditor so it may depend on what they're like.

[puuk-matt]

Again I'd like to stress the point as follows:

I do acknowledge the debt and am not trying to skip out on it, so not looking to hide things or stiff anybody.

What I am hoping to achieve is... will a) the N245 form if granted by the court prevent further enforcement, or is there another step I should take (I keep reading about form N244), so that I can arrange to pay this off by installments.

[sequenci]

From a personal point of view, I would return to remove goods and I'm sure you'll find the money from somewhere. Enforcement is just that unfortunately.

 

The HCEO will put your offer to the creditor so it may depend on what they're like.

 

Even though many of the items listed shouldn't be removed due to them being integral to the debtor's business?

 

Do you often ignore the rules?

[sequenci]

Again I'd like to stress the point as follows:

I do acknowledge the debt and am not trying to skip out on it, so not looking to hide things or stiff anybody.

What I am hoping to achieve is... will a) the N245 form if granted by the court prevent further enforcement, or is there another step I should take (I keep reading about form N244), so that I can arrange to pay this off by installments.

 

You need to apply on the n244 for a stay of execution and then n245 for the variation application on the CCJ.

[HCEOs]

Even though many of the items listed shouldn't be removed due to them being integral to the debtor's business?

 

Do you often ignore the rules?

 

With respect, do you know the rules?

[HCEOs]

The OP suggested that the debt is against his company which I would interpret to mean that it is a Limited company.

 

A Limited company is not afforded the protection of 'tools of the trade'.

 

If the company is a 'trading as' by a sole trader then goods used by him personally may be claimed as exempt. Given what the goods seized are, I doubt that is the case and would have every right to continue enforcement.

 

It may not be what he want's to hear but that is the law as at today.

[sequenci]

With respect, do you know the rules?

 

I think the OP needs to give us further information. And yes, I've a pretty sound understanding of the rules to be fair.

[sgtbush]

the levy needs to be more specific, like serial numbers etc, but an offer of 200/month is not unreasonable, but at the end of the day its the creditor that says yes or no, maybe if you did an immediate payment of 200 with 200/month would sway it a bit

[sgtbush]

We're a high street print and copy shop - the assets seized according to the notice are:

 

'All Goods on premises including:

Computer with monitor, needs serial numbers

Laptop, needs serial numbers

Photocopiers, if hired show proof and they will be taken off

Large Format Printers, make model serial numbers

Plotter, make model serial numbers

Chairs & Desks' as full discription as possible

 

Most of the items are owned - the photocopiers are hired.

 

i would think that this levy may be insuficiant to cover debt but depends on the hardware items, thats the problem when discribed without make model etc

[renegadeimp]

i would think that this levy may be insuficiant to cover debt but depends on the hardware items, thats the problem when discribed without make model etc

 

Thats why i said ealier sgtbush. I wasnt advocating people do it, but there are procedures in place to stop it happening. This HCEO is clearly unfit to do his job correctly.

[welsh1]

What if the HCEO has taken photos of the items seized? my friend had bailiffs round and that is what they did as well as leave an inventory of the goods,i would think that a photo would be a good descriptive tool.

[renegadeimp]

Photos arent any good as peopel can easily swap the insides of expensive computers for parts that are completely rubbish. Thats why serial numbers are the best way, and with computers, listing the parts its comprised of. As already said, they may have performed a levy, but it was a half arsed levy.

[welsh1]

Photos arent any good as peopel can easily swap the insides of expensive computers for parts that are completely rubbish. Thats why serial numbers are the best way, and with computers, listing the parts its comprised of. As already said, they may have performed a levy, but it was a half arsed levy.

 

 

Surely the serial numbers are just on the outside of a computer? i have changed parts in mine before like hard drive and fan and there are no serial numbers on them.

[renegadeimp]

Components will have serial numbers too. In my line of work, i repair massive server arrays for well known supermarkets. Whenever we are on a job, we sign off against the serial number of each array. If we can do that, the the HCEO can easily open up the sides and make a note, or simply switch the comp on or at the very least get the basic specs from the windows info.

 

SInce he is a HCEO, he should have been MUCH more careful than simply listing a rough description of what he levied.

[puuk-matt]

Thankyou for all of your helpful replies so far.

As I understand it, I will apply for an N244 stay of execution first thing Monday morning (if anyone has any advice on where to send this and how to apply for it quick I would be grateful!), whilst I wait for the N245 which has already been sent into the court to be heard.

If that's incorrect do let me know please!

 

On a slightly different note... having had a better look through the paperwork left behind I am astounded at the HCEO fees listed on the document.

 

They list as follows:

Judgement Debt - £1195.75

Judgement Costs - £170.00

Costs of Execution - £111.75

Interest to Date - £2.59

HCEO Fees - £635.27

Total - £2115.36

 

Can the HCEO fees really be over half of the original debt? If so I am in completely the wrong game!

 

Thanks again for all your advice - much appreciated.

 

Matt