Natwest Mortgage shortfall account/Default vanished on 6yrs expiry - now its back - help

[davehoward79]

What shows on the CRA file now.

 

That the account is 6 months late

[Andyorch]

Hi BD, hope ypur keeping well

 

i have just received the SAR data, everything is in there i expected. Even the original mortgage agreement that myself and my X wife signed

 

No CCA though. I have resent the request only yesterday, as they rejcted the 1st request and requested proof of address

 

So obviously my next question is what is it im looking for, and what to do next? The default is still on my Credit File, and has recently been updated

 

 

CCA and The Agreement are one and the same:???:

[davehoward79]

CCA and The Agreement are one and the same:???:

 

Oh ok

 

SO what now now then? is it worth going down the CML route, and see what they have to say maybe?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This is nonsense. A request made under the DPA has absolutely nothing to do with the consumer credit act. Please ring up the ICO and ask them.

 

The creditor must release all information relating to the data subject.

 

The ICO has confirmed that there is NO SPECIFIC OBLIGATION FOR A CREDIT AGREEMENT TO SUPPLIED WITH A SAR...

 

The ICO said that although it might expect an agreement to be supplied there is no specific obligation for the creditor to do so!

Some creditors WILL supply an agreement but MUST don't as you would soon find out by reading the many posts showing that agreements have not been supplied.

Edited August 30, 2013 by ims21

[goodatresearch]

I think the clue here are the words "specific obligation".

 

My personal view is that they should provide all personal data contained in a relevant filing system

which in many cases would inclued at least a microfiched CCA.

 

I believe that the ICO sits on the fence somewhat on this because it opens a can of worms and they have therefore made a policy decision at odds with the DPA.

 

If financial institutions deliberately leave out a CCA it strongly suggests they have something to hide.

 

Otherwise wouldnt they say for example

 

"heres a microfiche/photocopy of your executed and CCA compliant agreement. Pay us what you owe".

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It does not infer in any way that a creditor 'has something to hide', because if a debtor sends a formal CCA request under section 77/78 of CCA 1974 it will be provided.

 

It has also been put forward that a Regulated Consumer Credit Agreement is a document that the individual should have in their possession as a a copy MUST be provided at the inception of the agreement.

 

Lack of a CCA does not mean the debt does not exist.

 

I would suggest that a good read of the CCA '74 and the amendments would be a good idea for you.

[goodatresearch]

I at no time suggested that lack of a CCA means that a debt doesnt exist.

 

I understand the law because I am legally qualified beyond 1st degree level and have many years working legal experience.

 

Your tone was really unacceptable.

 

In the legal profession (like any other profession) you will find highly qualified and highly experienced members who disagree

on the application of the law and in my experience these disagreements rarely result in insults as they help no one.

 

As to your comment that its been put forward that an individual should have the CCA at its inception,

 

whos actually put this idea forward?

 

Is it legally binding?

 

Perhaps we shouldnt be requesting a CCA at all, after all we should have it anyway.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

My suggestion stands! As there were no 'insults' intended or implied.

 

It was put forward in a court case some years back, as far as I remember was accepted on a challenge to no compliance with a SAR.

'goodatresearch'.?

[goodatresearch]

Arguments put forward during a court case are not legally binding. Iv heard a lot of rubbish spouted in court, doesnt mean anything. Anyway back to the SAR request. I actually pushed for a microfiched CCA (Barclays originally stating they didnt have to provide microfiches) and eventually the bank provided one. Guess what, it was incomplete, mostly unreadable and what could be read is at odds with the recon sent. Sometimes, if your persistant, a SAR can be very helpful.

[ims21]

Just for clarity on this issue of the SAR.

 

The Data Protection Act sets out what constitutes data and a relevant filing system.

 

It seems that the interpretation of what constitutes "Data" is and what constitutes a "Relevant Filing System" differs from organisation to organisation.

 

The Information Commissioner's Office has not helped the situation with their Namby Pamby statement about whether a copy of the agreement is something which should be supplied. It's rather like saying "Yes it should be supplied but we don't mind if it isn't"

 

The Consumer Credit Act is, of course, nothing to do with the supply of data under the DPA.

 

If people want to press for the disclosure of the agreement under the DPA then they can take it up with the lender, the ICO or, if they wish, press for disclosure through the courts. The alternative is to send a S77.78 request under the Consumer Credit Act to get the information (or a recon)

 

Please let's stop the antagonistic comments on this thread and concentrate on the OP's issue.

 

Thanks

Edited August 30, 2013 by ims21

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sections 77/78 CCA 1974 provides for provision of certain documents to an applicant, is this not data?

 

I will stand by the 'data' I have posted.

 

Thanks for your input here ims.

[goodatresearch]

Something we have all lost sight is that mortgages are not covered by the Consumer Credit Act so making a request under this statute wont produce anything. Sorry about that.

 

However can I suggest you look at the actual mortgage agreement (provided by the SAR). Apparently some

old mortgages agreements didnt provide for the right to put anything on a CRA file. It may be that they will have to remove all late payment entries if this the case. I hope this is helful.

[dx100uk]

oppss so it was.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

www.bdl.org.uk/images/11_EW_NDL_Mortgage%20shortfalls.pdf

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry link appears invalid dx.

[dx100uk]

try now

 

dx

[goodatresearch]

The limitation for chasing a mortgage shortfall is 6 years if the arrears are for the mortgage interest and 12 years if the arrears are for the capital. However there is a CCJ in place. My understanding is that the owner of the debt will have to go back to court if the debt has not been chased for 6 years (and probably 12 years if the arrears are for capital).

 

Did the lender insist you took out a mortgage indemnity policy? If so, if there is any paperwork which states that the policy is for the benefit of the borrower, some judges have taken the view that the debtor cannot be chased for the shortfall. However this is a very complicated area, you may need to speak to a specialist in this area.

 

Lastly note my comment on permission to report to CRAs. You really do need to check your mortgage agreement.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

try now

 

dx

Fine now thanks dx.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As mortgage applicants are credit checked on application either by the mortgage provider, their agent or a broker ( this has been happening for at least 40 years to my knowledge). it would seem that permission to place and access data on credit files happens at the time of application.

[goodatresearch]

Yes, I must admit thats what I thought. I do remember being credit checked. Perhaps the old applications asked for permission to make a check put not to report data to CRAs which really doesnt make sense. I can only go off I was told by a mortgage broker and of course this could be incorrect information (although my old mortgage docs are completely silent on CRAs).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is now in the app form (s) and has been a colleague older than tells almost from the inception of CRAs.

 

Apparently is not in the actual mortgage documents/contract.

[goodatresearch]

OK that makes sense, although its not on my copy of the application form, perhaps it was on a different form. I must admit when I was younger I didnt always check documents very carefully.

[goodatresearch]

Just carried out a little research and found this:-

 

"not all providers show up on all reports. Accounts opened before around 1999 may not show up on any credit report because consent to report wasn't routinely obtained by all lenders before then" (money saving experts). However this could be incorrect, Im not posting on this with any authority. Just what I have read.

 

No more posts from me for now.

[davehoward79]

OK, BD not really sure where to go with this. What are my options now going forward?

Edited September 5, 2013 by ims21

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'll go back through the thread and see what I can come up with.