obtaining medical records for a parent

[fletch70]

If you speak to the coroners office that have handled the case they should be able to help you. I am not sure if that is answering your question or not. The GP should receive a copy and to be honest I would expect any GP worth their salt to be happy to go through it with you.

It is the most horrible time when someone dies suddenly. As it happens my dad dropped dead outside M&S in 2010 and again the coroners office and the GP were wonderful

[sick.as.a.chip]

Hi, just an update for you. the GP's have rang and said they have the records back and I need to make an appointment to go in to view them. The hospital has written with an invoice for there records so I just need to pay that and they will post them out.Just a question does anyone have any suggestions on what I do now with the doctors?? If I want copies how I go about that? How do I know if anything is missing? Does it include the computeried records etc??Guess I'm just after any advise anyone has please as I was not expecting anything as quick as this from the hassle I have had?? Oh and they want me to make an appointment with the practice manager is that right or should I have an appointment with a GP? I suppose I can ask for copies of anything of interest and bring it home for a better look?Thanks everyone!!

[Sali]

The GP has the records back? From where?

 

The hospital charge for your mum's records should not exceed 50 pounds. The records should include x-rays, scans, everything - even any ward notes.

 

The GP is required to provide the same service - that is if you request it formally, the records should be copied and sent to you.

 

I wouldn't have been happy sitting in the GP's surgery, probably being 'supervised' by someone, whilst I perused by dead mum's records, even if they should offer the possibility of copying (to datastick or photocopy) the information you want to take away. It's going to be a very emotional and painful experience. It's likely that the file will be large; my mum's data was hundreds of pages in total. You may feel under pressure to hurry and miss some key information.

 

As to how you know if anything is missing. You don't. There is some cross-referencing you can do. So, for example, copies of letters from consultant to GP should be provided by both parties.

 

One last point. There IS a post-mortem report. It is inconceivable (and probably illegal) to conduct a PM in this country without producing a report.

 

Good luck.

[sick.as.a.chip]

The GP has the records back? From where?

Quote practice manager - the health authority.

The hospital charge for your mum's records should not exceed 50 pounds. The records should include x-rays, scans, everything - even any ward notes.

The cost is very reasonable from the hospital and less than £50 .

The GP is required to provide the same service - that is if you request it formally, the records should be copied and sent to you.

I did request formally but they have no clue what they are doing (I dont either but at least I'm trying)

I wouldn't have been happy sitting in the GP's surgery, probably being 'supervised' by someone, whilst I perused by dead mum's records, even if they should offer the possibility of copying (to datastick or photocopy) the information you want to take away. It's going to be a very emotional and painful experience. It's likely that the file will be large; my mum's data was hundreds of pages in total. You may feel under pressure to hurry and miss some key information.

 

As to how you know if anything is missing. You don't. There is some cross-referencing you can do. So, for example, copies of letters from consultant to GP should be provided by both parties.

 

One last point. There IS a post-mortem report. It is inconceivable (and probably illegal) to conduct a PM in this country without producing a report.

 

Good luck.

 

The practice manager told me he had to get them back from the health autority???I requested them formally including a copy of the guidance from the department of health and highlighted the section's relavent to him as he originally declined me access! Thank you fo your very valid point about looking at them at the doctors its not something I had thought about but I have spoken to the practice manager again and asked him to make me copies to take away. I have asked for the last years worth. He said he will give me copies of hospital letters FOC as he printed them off, I have said I am happy to apy and he asked what the Hospital charged so I told him the statutory fee and then 30p per copy. I said just to give me a call and I would collect and pay there and then for the records. I have e-mailed the coronor's office again asking how I go about getting a copy of there report and am waiting for a reply. I'm not sure if it is worth contacting PALS again to see if they know how I get a copy. Like you I have no idea why I would have been told there "was no report as such" and at that time I was not aware of the Access to Heath Records Act as I was told the GP would need to request it.I'll keep posting as I go along. Thank you for all the support and advise. I think I'll be back once I have the records as I have no idea what I am doing!!!

[bhall]

Well done for pushing this and not accepting the excuses.

 

I hope you find the answers you need

[ScarletPimpernel]

When a patient dies the GP does not retain the health records; they are sent off to a central archive for retention. It may be that in some areas this is done via the Primary Care Trust. I don't think that there's anything sinister in this.

 

 

If you want a copy of the notes, this should be provided under a SAR (as opposed to just having sight of them), but the GP can charge up to £50for this (and they almost always charge the maximum).

 

A copy of the post mortem report is normally sent to the GP, so it should be in the notes.

 

Incidentally, the test you described is an echocardiogram.

[sick.as.a.chip]

Thank you all. I have the notes now from the GP which include the echocardiogram and letter which prompted the call to my mum. I'm waiting for the hospital records now. I've also heard nothing back from the coroner? There is no pm report in the notes although it is mentioned???

[Sali]

Umm, well the pm report should have been included with the GP data. Have you made a formal request (for the report) in writing to the coroner. You'll need proof if this escalates to the ICO. Ask them if a copy of the report was sent to the GP.

[sick.as.a.chip]

Sali, I've tried several things to get a copy of the report's 1st I called and was told when I asked the assistant if the gp got a copy that 'there is no report as such and the gp would need to ask for it' then I tried an earlier suggestion and e-mailed the office from the e-mail address on line. No reply. So I thought I'd hang on to see if it was with the notes from the gp. Nope. E-mailed again today. If I need to formally request it who do I do that to? The hospital where the pm was carried out or another request under the access to health records act straight to the coroner office?? I'm totally lost! Or do I go back to the gp and ask where it is?? Thank you for bearing with me on this!!

[Panthro]

I hope you get the answers you're looking for. I'm on the 'other side' and find the system just as frustrating as a clinician. I assume the echo showed some problems that ultimately led to your mums death. Sadly it would seem your mum's heart was so fragile I doubt that any review by cardiology would have helped. But of course that's conjecture and leaves the 'what if' questions unanswered - and they are the toughest as they will never been answered. And, of course, I don't know your mum or her health condition(s). The irregular heartbeat was picked up by accident. If it hadn't then the outcome would have been the same most likely and you and your family would have likely accepted it. Of course that's not the case and I am certainly not criticising you in any way. If questions need asked then good on you for fighting on your mums behalf.

 

Re: the PM - I assume that the coroner would have the report or at least a summary of it - as I also assume they are the ones who provided the death certificate? The PM report should go into the medical notes (hospital and GP) however I do emphasise *should*. Most systems are computer-based these days and the report should be easily obtainable from the hospitals system. Send a letter to the health records manager of the hospital requesting this information - state that the coroner and GP have no note of it. Even if paper-based the secretary should have a copy or at least sent it to filing. If you get no where with the health records department then try the pathology service manager.

 

Best of luck in your quest for answers. I hope you get what you're looking for.

 

PS The practice manager should be au fait with the legal aspects of running a practice. As it seems this doesn't seem to be the case!! But then the legal advice seems to be a hit and miss too so not entirely their fault I suppose. As I said, frustrating!!!

[sick.as.a.chip]

I hope you get the answers you're looking for. I'm on the 'other side' and find the system just as frustrating as a clinician. I assume the echo showed some problems that ultimately led to your mums death. Sadly it would seem your mum's heart was so fragile I doubt that any review by cardiology would have helped. But of course that's conjecture and leaves the 'what if' questions unanswered - and they are the toughest as they will never been answered. And, of course, I don't know your mum or her health condition(s). The irregular heartbeat was picked up by accident. If it hadn't then the outcome would have been the same most likely and you and your family would have likely accepted it. Of course that's not the case and I am certainly not criticising you in any way. If questions need asked then good on you for fighting on your mums behalf.

 

Re: the PM - I assume that the coroner would have the report or at least a summary of it - as I also assume they are the ones who provided the death certificate? The PM report should go into the medical notes (hospital and GP) however I do emphasise *should*. Most systems are computer-based these days and the report should be easily obtainable from the hospitals system. Send a letter to the health records manager of the hospital requesting this information - state that the coroner and GP have no note of it. Even if paper-based the secretary should have a copy or at least sent it to filing. If you get no where with the health records department then try the pathology service manager.

 

Best of luck in your quest for answers. I hope you get what you're looking for.

 

PS The practice manager should be au fait with the legal aspects of running a practice. As it seems this doesn't seem to be the case!! But then the legal advice seems to be a hit and miss too so not entirely their fault I suppose. As I said, frustrating!!!

 

Thank you. Just to update I have spoken to the coroner's office and they are putting a copy of the report in the post today no questions asked!

The hospital records are back and I'm just going through them now.

My question for anyone out there will be.........

What do I do with the information now???? A lot of it is indecipherable to me as a lay person. What do I do now I've almost got everything???????

Any advise will be appreciated??

[Sali]

Oh, this is going to be very hard for you and my heart goes out to you. I can only tell you what I did. My mum did not die from the same condition as your mum. I read the PM report first and started to research the cause of death on the internet. I then went through the hospital/GP dates making notes on dates and treatment. I looked at NICE guidelines, wrote questions in medical forums and read medical papers regarding the condition. It took a very long time.

 

I've seen mention in this forum of companies which review medical records for you. However, it's best to start the process yourself. You feel really lost and out of your depth at first, but gradually the jigsaw starts to slide into place. Be patient with yourself.

[sick.as.a.chip]

Sali, it's much appreciated thank you. I'm thinking of ringing a private hospital in my area and seeing if I can pay to have a consultation with a cardiologist. I've not got a clue if that is even possible but I'm still lost!

[sick.as.a.chip]

It seems after talking to a private hospital today that I've hit a brick wall. I apparently need a referral from my mum's gp! After the hassle getting the notes I can't see them giving me the referral!

I feel like I've hit a brick wall now! I have every bit of paper. Report. Test and note but now I feel there is nobody to help me!!

[bhall]

It seems after talking to a private hospital today that I've hit a brick wall. I apparently need a referral from my mum's gp! After the hassle getting the notes I can't see them giving me the referral!

I feel like I've hit a brick wall now! I have every bit of paper. Report. Test and note but now I feel there is nobody to help me!!

 

Sorry to read this..

 

Have you thought about giving these guys a call ? At the very least you can talk through it with a 3rd party

 

http://nhscomplaintsadvocacy.org/

 

Could the siteteam make a sticky for this sub forum about the Advocacy service (or add a link to the existing make a complaint sticky), I don't think the service is very well known to that many people. Unfortunately, I did not hear about them until after I had made my complaint

Edited August 9, 2013 by bhall

[Sali]

I've been looking for organisations that can independently review your mum's medical data, but with no joy. That's a gap in the market.

 

I have never used the Advocacy Service so cannot comment. It's worth a try.

[bhall]

If you google medical independent expert, some companies do come up that prepare independent reports. However, I am guessing as they don't appear to publish their charges, they are very expensive. At a guess I think they are more there for doctors, hospitals and NHS Trusts but might also be worth a look

Edited August 12, 2013 by bhall

[Sali]

Well there's one who seems to work solely on behalf of solicitors. The others are either foreign or relate to personal injury claims. If they did take cases directly from the public, I think you're right, you'd need to remortgage your house to pay the fee. Why does justice often seem to come with a hefty price tag.

[sick.as.a.chip]

Well there's one who seems to work solely on behalf of solicitors. The others are either foreign or relate to personal injury claims. If they did take cases directly from the public, I think you're right, you'd need to remortgage your house to pay the fee. Why does justice often seem to come with a hefty price tag.

 

I'm so sorry I've just seen your replies! Thank you all it is very much appreciated!

The lady at the private hospital did say if I could get a referral it may be costly but she quoted about £250. I'm I stupid for thinking that's not a lot of money for an expert to explain things to me?

I have a routine appointment with the practice nurse at my doctors not my mum's I'm thinking of asking her about the chances of my doctor giving me the required referral. Or even speaking to someone else at the private hospital to check the information I was given???

I will be however checking out your link too as I really don't want to go down the solicitor route but I'm not sure there is many other options open to me!

[Sali]

If you are wanting somebody to sort and analyse your mum's notes, I'm thinking that it will cost more than 250. You should confirm with the private hospital (in writing) your expectations of what the fee includes.

[sick.as.a.chip]

I just want someone to tell me what the ecco means as I have the actual report. I guess i really wwant to know if the report said that she was in imminent danger. With that information I can then work out what my next steps are?

[bhall]

Hello

 

It is not just the report you want a 3rd party to look at, it is the actual echo itself, just in case something was missed.

 

The only way I know of to get an Independent Expert's Report for free, is by making a complaint about the Doctor that wrote the report to the GMC - as part of their investigation they will obtain a report and you can request a copy. However, it is catch 22 as you can't really make a complaint as you don't know if anything was done incorrectly and you won't know for sure until you get a report.

 

I am stuck as to what to suggest. (sorry this post isn't very helpful)

 

The only things that come to mind are checking on medical websites and forums, or speaking with some form of Patient Association

 

Sorry

 

Ben

[sick.as.a.chip]

Thank you for the reply. I think I'm going to try again and hopefully speak to someone different at the private hospital to see what they can do. It's all been a rollercoaster. I got the post mortem report and discovered a few awfull things. I found out that the undertaker bumped my mum's head on the banister when they were taking her out which upset me a lot as I had thought that the service they had given was great (obviously they never told us about that!) I know they did the right thing in telling the hospital so that any head injury discovered could be shown to be them but it's still a horrific thing to find out. I also discovered that they had a copy of the ecco report from the hospital when they did the PM. There are a few other bits that don't really make sense too. The comment section had the following remark:

'the degree of hypertrophy was such that she was liable to suffer further episodes of myocardial ischemia and sudden death'!!!!!!!!!

they also quoted

'additional information from gp summary and hospital notes. An echocardiogram performed at this time had shown left ventricular hypertrophy.' it mentioned before that about the tumor op mum had had in January. But nothing else??

Like I say it's all pretty meaningless to me and that's why I'm struggling!

Your support is very much appreciated tho!

[bhall]

You might have come across this before but just in case:

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/myocardial-ischemia/DS01179

 

Myocardial ischemia occurs when blood flow to your heart muscle is decreased by a partial or complete blockage of your heart's arteries (coronary arteries). The decrease in blood flow reduces your heart's oxygen supply.

 

Myocardial ischemia, also called cardiac ischemia, can damage your heart muscle, reducing its ability to pump efficiently. A sudden, severe blockage of a coronary artery may lead to a heart attack. Myocardial ischemia may also cause serious abnormal heart rhythms.

 

Treatment for myocardial ischemia is directed at improving blood flow to the heart muscle and may include medications, a procedure to open blocked arteries or coronary artery bypass surgery. Making heart-healthy lifestyle choices is important in treating and preventing myocardial ischemia.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/left-ventricular-hypertrophy/DS00680

 

 

Left ventricular hypertrophy is enlargement (hypertrophy) of the muscle tissue that makes up the wall of your heart's main pumping chamber (left ventricle).

 

Left ventricular hypertrophy develops in response to some factor, such as high blood pressure, that requires the left ventricle to work harder. As the workload increases, the walls of the chamber grow thicker, lose elasticity and eventually may fail to pump with as much force as that of a healthy heart.

 

Left ventricular hypertrophy is more common in people who have uncontrolled high blood pressure or other heart problems. Treating high blood pressure can help ease your symptoms and may reverse the left ventricular hypertrophy.

[sick.as.a.chip]

Thank you. I still think i need a cardiologist to have a look and explain if they saw my mums report what they would assume from it. EG is it obvious she was seriously ill? Can it even tell you the? Do they have tolerances to work with so of they looked at a part of the heart and it measured x or y they would reccomend Z if that makes any sense. What i mean is that they look at the report ans say - yes this is life thretening or no it was not and has been classified correctl.In looking at the hospital recordes there is an e-mail from the person who carried out the Ecco to the consultant (The wrong consultant which caused a delay) stating that my mum needed a PRIORITY REVIEW with a cardiologist.When the letter with the Ecco was written 3 WEEKS AND 4 DAYS AFTER THE ECCO, it was termed "Fairly urgent consulation" which the GP translated in a call to my mum 13 DAYS LATER as "you need to be seen on the shortest list".It was still 5 weeks and 2 days before her appointment.This Totals 75 days from the date of the ecco to her appointment!!