HSBC - A little overdrawn, 3 bank charges then default!

[dx100uk]

DN please

 

their charges are a penalty they are not fair they are unlawful.

 

dx

 

 

dx

[ctid1987]

coming up...

[ctid1987]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48358[/ATTACH]

[Peterbard]

You may have a problem convincing a court that these are penalty charges.

 

The first page says that the principle "service charge" is because of the consideration to incur an overdraft, not because of any breach of contract, (no breach no penalty under common law), also not unfair under the UTTC's this is in line with the Supreme court ruling.

 

Of course just because they say it does not mean that it is so, you need to go back to your agreement and the terms and conditions, but IMP not likely to be successful.

[ctid1987]

DN please

 

their charges are a penalty they are not fair they are unlawful.

 

dx

 

 

dx

 

Done DX.

 

What do you reckon? As you can see from there response below they feel they haven't done any wrong.

[ctid1987]

You may have a problem convincing a court that these are penalty charges.

 

The first page says that the principle "service charge" is because of the consideration to incur an overdraft, not because of any breach of contract, (no breach no penalty under common law), also not unfair under the UTTC's this is in line with the Supreme court ruling.

 

Of course just because they say it does not mean that it is so, you need to go back to your agreement and the terms and conditions, but IMP not likely to be successful.

 

Fighting a losing battle then eh? All for going £5 overdrawn when I was out of work. It's quite a catch 22 really. I'm £5 overdrawn so struggling anyway, a direct debit comes out and they whack a charge on making me £35 overdrawn - Making situation worse.

[ctid1987]

So what they are saying is they consider whether to agree to an informal overdraft, then (sometimes) charge me for the privilege. Then when a direct debit comes out and im already in minus figures, they also consider paying it, refuse payment and charge me for it all. Double whammy.

[ctid1987]

I was £4.76 overdrawn, and they inflated that amount to £105 which is what it defaulted at.

[ctid1987]

Yes, if we are talking about a section 87 DN they can include all default sums(providing they are legitimate) itemized within the previous notices under the act( section 86). This would give the sums required to remedy as per section 88

 

Can you explain this to me in laymans terms please?

[Peterbard]

Can you explain this to me in laymans terms please?

 

Sure although it may be a little off topic in regards to your case, as we now know that this was a series of charges made on a current account rather than an overdraft.

 

In order to terminate a credit agreement(like an overdraft in certain cases) a default notice must be sent, the notice is a statutory requirement and must contain the information required to remedy the default, it gives the debtor the chance to pay arrears and avoid any further action being taken.

 

The notice can include any default sums( charges levied on the account for breaching the agreement), my response was in reply to a poster who stated that the DN must only contain arrears and not charges, this is untrue, as long as the charges are legitimate the should be included within the remedy sum stated.

 

Th ICO guidance quoted earlier in this thread refers to default charges in relation to the recording of data (notices of default), it states that the default charges should not be included within the recorded data or default indicator.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Dodgeball

[ctid1987]

So is there any legislation governed by anyone that states default sums cannot comprise of charges? I mean like roughly 2100% of the original amount owed? lol

[dx100uk]

a default sums notice is just that

it outlines PENALTY charges they are levying.

 

if you mean in a default notice [under section 87]

the sum they ask you to clear within 14days

must not include any penalty charges.

 

dx

[ctid1987]

You've lost me there DX, sorry.

 

So the default sum registered on my CRA file is correct to include charges.

 

However the default notice they sent me that gives me 14 or 28 days to rectify should only include the owing amount?

[dx100uk]

2009-04-08 PC DD request £60.27 [refused] bal £14.22

2009-04-14 PC DD request £60.27 [refused] bal £14.22

2009-05-13 Paid In £150 bal £135.78

2009-05-19 PC payment collected Bal -£4.76

2009-05-28 Bank Charge £35 refusals in April bal -£39.97

2009-06-05 PC DD request £60.27 [refused]

2009-06 28 Bank Charge £25 [May PC put A/c into OD]

2009-07-28 Bank Charge £35 [June PC reversal]

2009-09-09 DN issued 22/9/9

2009-10-16 £185.71 hsbc Letter of Final demand

2009-11-16 cra default date 16/11/2009 [exceeded 180 days debit]

 

hsbc wrote on [unknown] date giving 28days else cra file will be marked.

[what is the date of the letter post 78 att]

[ctid1987]

Im not sure, let me dig the paperwork out.

 

Thanks for your help though

 

Just give me a few mins.

[ctid1987]

Okay, So original paperwork is as per the attachment. Definitely no date on it.

 

Obviously a copy so may be computer error?

 

But from the last letter from HSBC it says -

 

"DN was issued on 22 september 2009 followed by a Final Demand Notice dated 16 October 2009.

Please note, the letters issued are a legal requirement and the purpose of the documents is to advise you of the status of your account and the Bank's further intentions."

 

Which is what you have listed above.

[ctid1987]

DX?