3 PTS endorsed licence.RSA motability wont insure me..

[stevenm7412]

hi all, just a bit of help regarding 3 points put on my licence, after being stopped,on a 125cc i was holding a prov licence, i had been given a £60 on the spot ticket for the offence, which i couldn't afford to pay,so i went to dispute the ticket in court, stating i was not aware i needed L plates for a 125 cc WHICH I WENT TO BUY JUST AFTER GETTING THE TICKET AND PUT THEM ON THE BIKE,i might add that i had all my docs on me to prove i was fully legal minus the L plates,anyway after the court apperance i got a absolute discharge, and that was that, then a day later the court prosecutor sent me a letter stating that there had been a oversight at court and they had not took my licence as i had to have 3 points put on it? which i had to comply with and return the prov licence to DVLA,when i got it back they were on there, anyway a few months later i passed my car test and received my full car licence, as im a disabled person which i will remain being for life ,i applied for a motability car which i was awarded to help in my day to day mobilty,but after the RSA insurance noticed the 3 points for the L plates,they said i could not be put on the cover note for the car,but i could nominate a person to be a driver for me,so i did have a friend to nominate for me which i put forward to be my nominated driver,which was accepted without any question,heres the thing he also had 3 points for speeding on his licence, but they had no trouble insuring him but not me,who now has to arrange a friend to drive me to hospital apps, & other day to day tasks,& thats only if he is free to help if he is not at work,can any one give any advice on who i could contact to see about the possible re opening of the court case,& try have the points removed,& a possible fine or some other way to pay the penalty for no L plates,so i can at least drive my own car without relying on a busy friend which has little spare time to do so,any advice would be very much appreciated.

[assisted blonde]

I think speeding points are something that most of us get now and again and insurance companies don't take them too seriously, however driving without L plate is a much more serious offence which is prob why you cant get the insurance

[Aretnap]

I suspect that the problem is that driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence can mean anything from a missing L plate to driving with no licence at all. While one is quite a minor matter, the other is obviously a serious one. However insurers have no easy way of knowing the circumstances behind the conviction, so they just see the code and treat everyone with it in the same way. For some insurers this will mean not offering insurance at all.

 

I'm not quite sure why the court would have given you an absolute discharge and still endorsed your licence - often an absolute discharge goes hand in hand with special reasons not to endorse. But if that's what they decided to do then that's what they decided to do, and if you wanted to appeal you would normally have had to have done so within 21days of the sentence, so you have little chance of getting this reopened now. In any event while you can ask the court not to endorse your licence because of some strong mitigation relating to the offence itself, you can't ask them not to endorse because the endorsement would cause you hardship.

 

The fact that you got an absolute discharge raises the question of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. Convictions become "spent" after a fixed period, and after that they do not need to be disclosed to insurance companies. When the conviction results in a fine it becomes spent after 5 years, which is why most insurance companies ask about convictions in the last 5 years. However when the "punishment" is an absolute discharge the conviction is spent in 6 months.

 

The points of course stay on your licence for 4 years, but does that mean the conviction does not become spent for 4 years? I think not. There is case law to say that a driving licence endorsement is not a "disability, prohibition or other penalty" within the meaning of the Act - it's just a warning that further offences will be dealt with more harshly - and therefore the conviction can become spent even though your licence is still endorsed. The case law dates from before the penalty point system was introduced in the days when you simply got an endorsement, and specifically related to drink driving. I don't know if there's been a definitive ruling on whether the same applies to points, but I would argue that it does, and therefore that your conviction should become spent 6 months after you received it.

 

Once the conviction is spent the insurer should not be refusing you insurance because of it, even if the endorsement is still on your licence. The Financial Ombudsman confirms this.

 

By way of analogy, there seems no reason why a rehabilitated drink-driver, if he had evidence, would not have an equally strong case if he was refused insurance or was given less favourable terms and conditions than other policyholders, simply because of his spent conviction. If firms insist on asking questions about spent convictions, then they must effectively ignore the answers they receive. Otherwise, we are likely to consider they have breached their statutory duty. Similarly, if a firm cancels the policy of a customer who has a spent conviction (but whose licence is still endorsed), simply because the customer did not disclose the endorsement, then we will uphold the customer’s complaint.

So if it's been more than 6 months since you were convicted (not since the offence itself) I would suggest that you get back to the insurers, point out that the conviction is spent, and ask if they will insure you. If they won't you can try the Financial Ombudsman.

[stevenm7412]

Thank you for a very detailed reply,i can give a brief summary of why the ab discharge,basicly the police stopped me for the L plate,they said,i had my prov licence in my wallet,the bike was a 125 cc,which is the max for a prov licence,but L plates must be on the bike also,i told them i would go straight to get them now,but he was not the most pleasant of officers,so he gave me the fixed penalty,after this he said could he search me just as a routine check,i could see he just did not like me,so i kept cool and polite and said go ahead,as he did so he found two co codamol tabs for pain relief,which i get every month from GP, they were still in the foil wrapper but clearly named,then al of a sudden hands were behind back and im thrust on the ground with both thumbs up my back face flat on the path under arrest? mins later i'm in a van on route to the cells, whilst i'm in there,the bike is thrown in to a van and put in a compound ,as for why who knows, it was not obstructing or a danger to any body,it was t&t insured, anyway after 4 hours i was released with no charge and a letter to take back to the station with all my docs after they had checked the docs,i could take this letter to the compound to get my bike back,oh also to part with £160 as well, not forgetting i had a £60 ticket to pay for the L plates,i was not pleased to say the least,so after the ticket not being paid, a summons hit the doorstep,it was then i got the ab discharge due to the £160 to get my bike back ,so after all that i left court with no punishment, which for the way i had been treated i thought was at least a positive outcome,then the next day i got the prosecutor's letter stating that there was a oversite and i had to re appear to give in my licence to have it endorsed with the 3 points, thats what the points are for,i might add that the bike was a 125,not a 500 or more,then i could understand the accordance with a license,but it was the legal size for the licence i had in my pocket can you add any more input after the detail i added,i must add i have all the paperwork ticket, etc.. to back all this up as fact. if it was needed,i look forward to your reply,thanks..oh and the court date was 20/2/2012.

[stevenm7412]

i might add i have a hospital scar thats the length of my whole stomach,which could not be stitched together so was left to heal open which took 21 months to grow a very thin layer of skin over,which basically holds my intestines, pancreas,ect..very very easy to burst,tree yrs in hospital with alot of pain worry,and emotional fear, after that im still here, very rare to survive this illness but i did,and am only 40,but cant move around alot, so mobility was a god send,until they pulled the insurance now im slowly sinking down the dreaded spiral of depression,which is very hard to fight, sorry to go on but im happy for at least a bit of notice from your good self,ARNTNAP..it is much appreciated...

[stevenm7412]

i meant three yrs, lol not tree yrs... ,im not from jamaica.lol

[Lillibelle]

I had 4 points on my licence (speeding) and had no problem with RSA so it's probably not that.

[stevenm7412]

i mentioned the scar straight away to the police,but they took no notice, thats why i added it to this thread, if i seem a bit topsy turvy.lol

[stevenm7412]

i know its strange, most are for speeding, even my nominated drivers are for speeding,? i thought points were just that regardless of how they were obtained, unless drink drive,etc. but thats a ban,mandatory, i think?

[citizenkain]

did you have a cbt for the bike?,if you didnt that can go against you

[stevenm7412]

yes CBT obtained,

[barns66]

Hi,if you have only held a full driving licence for a few months,that could possibly be the reason RSA motability surance will not insure at this time.i would ask if that's the reason.I know they have got a little more strict in the last couple of years on who they will insure,such as anyone you nominate to drive as to live with in 5 miles of where you live.barns66

[stevenm7412]

i past test in november 2011, they had no problem insuring me after then,thats my point, i was insured for around 18 months until i informed them of the 3 points, then that very moment i was removed from the cover note,& not insured which remains the problem.

[citizenkain]

surely if you did the cbt you would have been aware of the need to have L plates on a 125cc bike if you dont have a full licence?

[stevenm7412]

i was aware & would have had them on the bike that day,but i was not sure if i could ride the bike to go buy them to put on, just like you can drive to a M.O.T. station without a m.o.t. on the vehicle, i understand what your saying though, but it is a officers discretion to ( turn a blind eye)as long as the L plate is on within the hour or so.i guess i just had a by the book officer,??

[citizenkain]

no,your supposed to have the L plates on all the time,if you had them on the bike when you did the cbt they stay on till you pass the full test everyone knows that

[stevenm7412]

the bike was not mine,i bought mine after the cbt.

[citizenkain]

so did I,but the owner/rider should know they need L plates,your insurance company would have that on the documents as well,its your responsibility to have all that right,not some,by the book copper,you must have really wound them up telling them you werent sure if you needed L plates!

[stevenm7412]

Might be the copper was just a miserable fart? who hates his job.who knows?

[citizenkain]

lol,maybe he was just doing what hes employed to do?