Lloyds/SCM claimform - credit card debt *SETTLED BY TOMLIN + PPI RECLAIM**

[citizenB]

lindyhop - I don't see a any reference to LTSB's original particulars of claim - the reason that they issued the claim ? Any chance we can see that please.

 

Reading back over your thread, the general consensus of opinion is that you might want to consider their offer of the consent order ? This would prevent further costs being added to the debt.

[lindyhop]

Hi Ford

 

please excuse the poor language used in my last post. i only meant that me using the term issaac may put you in a vulnerable position if you worked in the industry. i was basically asking for your permission, having shared the information for me using it.

 

if i had known that my post would have caused concern i would have kept logged in and responded before going to bed last night. i hate the idea of you thinking bad of me, even in cyberspace:(

 

again my apologies, definately no insult was intended. i am very grateful for your involvement.

 

Regards

 

Citizen B

Thank you also for your input. the general consensus then is that even with the errors on the recon, once pointed out at court, the ccj would go ahead anyway as the bank would ask for the opportunity to rectify by asking for another hearing(?) or by starting the process again by issuing a correct recon, or the judge would ignore the missing original and errors on the recon and order a ccj anyway.

 

are my assumptions correct?

[citizenB]

Well they would only be able to reissue a claim if they did indeed have the correct paperwork. Not all errors can be "remedied"

 

I don't think that Ford would have put anything on the open forum if it were going to be causing anyone a problem So if he has suggested that you make a request for something by way of something, then go for it.

 

Whilst there is a court claim in progress you can ask for information by way of CPR Part 18. I have attached an EXAMPLE for you.

 

You would need to amend the questions on the EXAMPLE to obtain the information you require.

Draft CPR 18 for forum.pdf

[Ford]

no worries, lindyhop. no offence was taken, just didn't know what you meant.

the 'fair isaac debt manager' is just computer software that some bankers (including loyds) etc use re managing debt accounts. googly it, you'll see.

it is the account diarydetails/logs that you want that show the full activity re an account including things in/out such as dn, formal demand, etc. their sar info should include it. so maybe then you already have those, and theres been crossed wires. if not, can try just ask the bank for a copy. good luck.

btw, as you asked, no i'm not in the 'industry'

[lindyhop]

Hi Citizen

 

i have looked at the cpr.18 example, and appreciate your providing it.

 

having looked at the example i can see why this would make sense, but i am suspicious of the claimant. they claim in their POC and witness statement that the DN was in line with procedures, however the memoline/isaac may come up different information and this was why i wanted sight of it - to satisfy myself that what was said on their witness statement matched the info on the memoline. i cannot understand why they did not include this information with my original SARs request.

 

in any event i will leave that to one side.

 

CONSENT ORDERS

i have tried to find out a bit more about this but have come up empty handed so far as when googled it comes up with divorce cases.

 

but how would a consent order work with avoiding a CCJ case? who lays down the terms and what if any would the effect be of agreeing a consent order prior to a hearing? if agreement not reached would the defendant by opening negoiations have agreed to liability?

 

sorry to be a pain, but there must be other Caggers out there will this same query and not being clear on the answer:(

 

can you help with the answer?

[havinastella]

How much are they claiming?

[lindyhop]

Hi again Ford

Very pleased that you are still there and that you havent taken offence. i was tired, didnt explain and worded the post badly:oops:

 

ive drafted a sort of LBA re the repeated failed provision of SARs info, and included a request for all entries. they may well choose to ignore me for another month before responding!

 

ive asked here about consent orders (not the ones connected with divorce, but as a possible alternative to a CCJ). do you know anything about them? benefits/pitfalls/disadvantages etc?

 

Thanks

[lindyhop]

Hi Havingastella

i keep missing posts, sorry about that.

 

it a very large amount (well for me anyway). if you have several questions please list them on here, the answers that i think may make me more easily identifyable i can PM, the others i will answer openly.

 

in the meantime is the amount being claimed significant? this questions sounds silly even to me, but i dont know what i dont know (if you know what i mean)

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?385377-Consent-Order&highlight=Consent+Order

 

There is some advice regarding a Consent order in the thread linked above.

 

The OP was sent one by the claimant, donkeyB amended it to make it more "defendant" friendly.

 

Hope that helps.

[lindyhop]

HI CitizenB

 

This is very interesting - but where are the details about any repayment? was this negoiated on another page of the document?

 

please bear with me:???:

 

i cant believe that they are prepared to drop everything without getting any money?

[lindyhop]

CitizenB

 

im missing something:oops: im expecting the 'light bulb' in my head to go on at some point:embarassed: wont hold my breath though:)

[Andyorch]

HI CitizenB

 

This is very interesting - but where are the details about any repayment? was this negoiated on another page of the document?

 

please bear with me:???:

 

i cant believe that they are prepared to drop everything without getting any money?

 

It depends what the Consent is meant to achieve in this case the claim was dropped.......yours would have details of payment required within the schedule.

[citizenB]

lindy, I have attached a guide to witness statements for you. Do you have a copy of the claimants Witness statement that should have come with the copy of the SJ application ?

Guidance Notes for WS.pdf

[lindyhop]

Hi Citizen B

 

yes i have managed to get a copy of the claimants witness statement. i had to phone the court for it, as this was not included with the notification advising of the hearing date. i will type up the wording as this will be the quickest way to get this to you.

 

Dont worry about not understanding para 1 of my own witness statement. i was not sure how to word it so tried to include everything in the hope that at least i would have covered all bases.

 

to include caselaw, can i print it off from the computer as a word doc? and include it? the witness statement for the claimant has included caselaw 'Carey' and they have just typed it in ,so i thought i could do the same??

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

TBH, I don't know - I will ask for you.

 

Although I suspect that the court will have access to the Carey Judgment as it is fairly recent.

[lindyhop]

Hi does anyone have a fax number for SCM or a telephone number?

 

Thanks

[Shadow25]

Tel: 0845 6004583

Fax: 01273 636484

[citizenB]

Hi Citizen B

 

yes i have managed to get a copy of the claimants witness statement. i had to phone the court for it, as this was not included with the notification advising of the hearing date. i will type up the wording as this will be the quickest way to get this to you.

 

Dont worry about not understanding para 1 of my own witness statement. i was not sure how to word it so tried to include everything in the hope that at least i would have covered all bases.

 

to include caselaw, can i print it off from the computer as a word doc? and include it? the witness statement for the claimant has included caselaw 'Carey' and they have just typed it in ,so i thought i could do the same??

 

Thanks

 

In response to the above..

 

The claimants WS above in support of their application.....I cant see no case law referred to...unless the above is an abridged version.If the account is pre 2007 then their statement " The recon credit agreement

 

 

the claimant does not have to produce the original document,s which a e no longer available. the copies held on the claimants computer systems and exhibited here are admissible by virtue of sectioni 8(1) and 9(1) of the civil evidence act 1995. the claimant now certifies for the purposes of section 9(2) of the civil evidence act 1995 that the recon copy agreement is a true copy document which forms part of the records of the claimants business. annexed to this statement and marked....."

 

is incorrect and misleading...just quote Waksman in rebuke ...they must have the original to enforce.

[lindyhop]

Hi Citizen B

 

in response to post 77. yes i will be quoting Waksman as a rebuke. Thank you for confirming that this is the right thing to do.

 

Regards

[lindyhop]

Hi CitizenB and/or Andyorch

 

seriously hope you are about today to help with these question (others who know the answer - response also welcomed)

 

RECON's

if the date of the cc agreement as stated by the claimant is disputed by a defendant is it enough for the RECON - 'not to be accurate and true' and therefore unenforceable?

 

Also what if the interest and APR on the recon are disputed. clarity would be helpful. is it just the interest, or does it include the APR or do both have to be correct as part of the prescribed terms?

 

VARIATIONS

where the account has been varied over the years does S85 still apply in that the claimant should have sent (each time a new credit token was sent out) a copy of the original agreement - especially if S85 is not mention in the agreement RECON or original.

 

Thanks

[lindyhop]

Sorry forgot to add under

RECONS

 

what if the account number the claimant have quoted as original is disputed? would this make the recon unenforceable?

 

Thanks

[postggj]

The recon agreement has to be an exact copy of the original

 

have they done a statement of truth that the recon is an exact copy

[lindyhop]

Hi Squaddie

 

yes they did a statement of truth and witness statement which they had to go back and produce a new statement of truth and witness statement as they found one of the errors on the RECON after me telling them there were errors on it.

 

how many statements of truth will they be allowed to produce? the explaination given as to why they got one of the errors wrong in the first place is so flimsy!!!

[lindyhop]

Hi again Squaddie

 

i should add that there are still errors, (the reason i posed the questions in my earlier post today as to what they can cannot get away with in front of a judge).

 

of course the errors maybe errors that they can go back and correct, but i dont think they will be able to do so prior to the SJ hearing date, unless they do so on the day:(

 

in any event mine is a pre 2007 so they should be producing the original (or a copy) of the original signed doc anyway - i am right about that i hope.

[postggj]

Only one statement of truth, why was no objection raised, if their agreement has been proven to be inaccurate with a statement of truth, and no viable explanation given, then i would have requested that evidence be tainted and struck out