Lending money to a friend.

[Consumer dude]

A further meeting with friend and his wife accusing me of all sorts. and saying I owe money to her. At the end of the day I have signature of my friend to say he owes me the money. They had received the statement that I had sent so what should I do next. A letter before action perhaps ?

 

The other thing, is there any obligation on my part to explain to anyone how any amount in question has been worked out..

[Consumer dude]

Latest update on this issue. I have got friends in on the act to try to broker a payment plan. Am I ok in the belief that because my friend has already confirmed he owes me the money by his sgnature, I do not have to prove how that figure was arrived at..

[brokebutnotbeatn]

That could depend on how you got him to sign against that figure... Yes, I think its perfectly reasonable for you to be asked and to supply a breakdown of how you arrived at that amount!

[steampowered]

Latest update on this issue. I have got friends in on the act to try to broker a payment plan. Am I ok in the belief that because my friend has already confirmed he owes me the money by his sgnature, I do not have to prove how that figure was arrived at..

 

This information should be included in a letter before action. Please review the requirements for LBAs here, specifically para 2.1 (5): ' if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated'. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

 

You would be required to justify the amount if this reached court. A bare signature next to an amount is not enough to trigger a legal obligation ... this is because the amount was already owing before the signature, and a bare signature does not provide consideration for changing that amount (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_contract_law#Consideration_and_estoppel).

 

The signature may still have value as evidence of the amount owing ... but not enough by itself.

[Consumer dude]

This is proving difficult to resolve and I have had to leave it for a while. As with most things between so called friends, a lot is done on trust. I guess I still attempt to include other friends in on what has happened..

[Consumer dude]

This so called friend has requested that I provide itemized accounts of how the amount has been arrived at. This is strange now after he had already confirmed by his signature next to mine that he owes me the money. He really is playing at being foolish. What happened to trust ?

[steampowered]

As per post #60, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated is a requirement for a CPR compliant LBA. Realistically it is something you should provide.

[Consumer dude]

As per post #60, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated is a requirement for a CPR compliant LBA. Realistically it is something you should provide.

 

I'm not even sure where to start, many transactions were cash and just added to a running amount. He allowed me to operate bank and credit card accounts, that was the level of trust that has been involved. I'm in a state of confusion as what can I do if I'm unable to produce absolute records of every transaction. In his letter he gave me 30 days to produce itemized accounts or else he would assume that was the end of the matter. This could get quite complicated..

Edited October 11, 2013 by Consumer dude

[Conniff]

Their strained relationship isn't your problem. Only talk to this 'non' friend by writing. You are being silly to yourself trying to be nice. He has shown that he himself don't behave

this way.

[Consumer dude]

Their strained relationship isn't your problem. Only talk to this 'non' friend by writing. You are being silly to yourself trying to be nice. He has shown that he himself don't behave

this way.

 

You are right of course and I thank you for reminding myself of that fact, that being nice is not going to get me anywhere..

[Consumer dude]

The receipt that he gave me states that he owes myself the amount in question. I signed and he signed as well. I know he owes me and he knows as well, but whether someone is advising him how to weasel out of this debt of honour, who knows ?

[Conniff]

That is all you need. This wasn't a commercial loan so you don't come under any of the regulations that a regulated lender would. This is simply one person lending some money

to another with a signed agreement to pay it back. You don't have to explain anything. If he don't pay it back as agreed, then you chase him through the courts for it.

[Consumer dude]

That is all you need. This wasn't a commercial loan so you don't come under any of the regulations that a regulated lender would. This is simply one person lending some money

to another with a signed agreement to pay it back. You don't have to explain anything. If he don't pay it back as agreed, then you chase him through the courts for it.

 

Is there not a legal obligation to explain how the figure was arrived at as one poster on here has stated. The fact that he accepts he owes me the amount should be evidence without sitting for hours burning the midnight oil..

 

Furthermore, the fact he has signed to confirm he owes me the amount, that feels like to me he will pay it back because the words 'he owes' (followed by the amount) is in the wording..

[steampowered]

The requirement for LBAs is an explanation of how the amount has been calculated. In reality it doesn't really matter if you don't comply with that at this stage. Personally I would be inclined to just refer to the signed document at this stage and save further debate for the courtroom.

 

There is no technical legal requirement to have full written evidence for everything you are claiming. The civil courts operate on a 'balance of probabilities'. If you do not have complete records then the court will listen to how you calculated the amount and it will listen to the Defendant's objections. The court will then decide what it thinks the true position is likely to be.

 

To be honest, I think most judges will be very reluctant to make a legally binding order that a Defendant pays a certain specified amount unless they have a sound basis for calculating that amount. For this reason I think any doubt/ambiguity in the court's mind about the amount is likely to be resolved in the Defendant's favour. You should make an effort to prove as much of the amount as you can - not necessarily at this stage but certainly by the time you are required to file your evidence before the hearing, if it gets to that.

 

The fact he has signed a document stating the amount is not likely to be legally binding. One of the legal requirements for a promise to turn into a legally binding contract/agreement, such as agreement on the amount owed by the Defendant where there is genuine doubt, is a concept called 'consideration'. This means you must have offered something in exchange for the Defendant's agreement or it is not legally binding. The signed document will be very helpful evidence of the correct amount, and certainly you should rely on it, but not enough to make the amount an open-and-shut issue.

[Consumer dude]

You help someone out and you end up doing the chasing to get it back. No wonder people lose it..

[Old Cogger]

you help a mate out by loaning him his wedding cost until the following Monday when he gets his last pay cheque before leaving a company and moving, allow him to have furniture/cooker etc cheap to get him started in a new home, and arrange to meet up early Monday morning , only to find he has done a runner with his new bride/furniture and all, then to be told he was paid his final salary the previous Friday i.e. day before wedding = Bestman ends up out of pocket, and never heard anymore from that bas***d, as he did not go to the area he said he was going to,. so £100!s out of pocket of little savings I had, this happened decades ago.

Edited October 12, 2013 by honeybee13

[Consumer dude]

you help a mate out by loaning him his wedding cost until the following Monday when he gets his last pay cheque before leaving a company and moving, allow him to have furniture/cooker etc cheap to get him started in a new home, and arrange to meet up early Monday morning , only to find he has done a runner with his new bride/furniture and all, then to be told he was paid his final salary the previous Friday i.e. day before wedding = Bestman ends up out of pocket, and never heard anymore from that bas***d, as he did not go to the area he said he was going to,. so £100!s out of pocket of little savings I had, this happened decades ago.

 

This is it and for me the possibility that no redress in a court of law so I may end up over 5k out of pocket.I will chase him till I either get the money or I get some moral conclusion..

[steampowered]

By the way, how do you know what the amount is? How did you come up with the figure on the signed document?

[Consumer dude]

By the way, how do you know what the amount is? How did you come up with the figure on the signed document?

 

The amounts were agreed every step of the way by the two of us, and was a running amount that ended with this final amount..

 

He appears to have conveniently forgotten the times we talked about helping each other. Why do some people betray long term friends and then attempt to place the burden of proof on to yer..

[steampowered]

The amounts were agreed every step of the way by the two of us, and was a running amount that ended with this final amount..

 

Well you can just explain that to a judge, and the judge will decide who he believes. I'm not sure you have much to gain by playing letter tennis. In your position I would just send a basic LBA stating the agreed amount and then issue proceedings, if there is any dispute about the amount the judge will have to sort it out.

[Consumer dude]

Does it cost me to make a claim. Can I claim legal assistance..

[steampowered]

Yes, it costs you. There will be an issue fee and a hearing fee if the case proceeds. Google moneyclaimonline for further info. You may be exempt from the fees if you receive certain benefits.

 

No, you will not qualify for legal aid in a case like this. You could use a solicitor but you won't recover the costs of that, for small claims it is generally better to do it yourself.

[Consumer dude]

What would I have offered in exchange for the defendants agreement that he owes me the money in question and to which he has confirmed with his signature..

 

The other thing, is the issue fee the same as the application and if it were to go ahead and there is a hearing, there is a different fee for that ? Is there any reason there wouldn't be a hearing ?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Consumer dude

[steampowered]

What would I have offered in exchange for the defendants agreement that he owes me the money in question and to which he has confirmed with his signature..

 

As a matter of public policy, the law of contract does not enforce gifts. Unless there was an element of exchange for that agreement it is treated as a gift/unilateral statement and thus not enforceable. That's just the way the law is I'm afraid; adding your signature to a document does not have any technical legal standing.

 

The other thing, is the issue fee the same as the application and if it were to go ahead and there is a hearing, there is a different fee for that ? Is there any reason there wouldn't be a hearing ?

 

Have a read of http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex050-eng.pdf for the current fees.

 

Application fees are different to issue fee and hearing fee. Application fees are not necessary. You would only need to pay an application if you want to make a formal application for the court to do something which it would not do automatically such as an application for summary judgment without a hearing, an application to change the date of the hearing at short notice etc.

 

There wouldn't be a hearing if the case settles at an early stage. There would also be no hearing if you win by default because the Defendant does not file a Defence in time.

[Consumer dude]

I did not gift the amount..