PPI: About to take on HSBC

[dx100uk]

have you ever gotten all the statement s for the OD?

 

is it mostly penalty charges?

 

dx

[slinky252]

I think I have most of the statements. I am at work at mo and can't check don't think they are penalty charges, if they are then why you ask?

[dx100uk]

they'll be unlawful and prob strengthen your case

 

dx

[slinky252]

Just had confirmation from fos that the ppi complaint upheld for the loan has nothing to do with the overdraft, it has to be linked for them to offset against any debt. Even though Metropolitan collection services are part of HSBC it makes no difference and i am quite within my rights to ask for it to be paid to me. A small victory just gotto get them to give me the right figure regarding what they owe me.

 

And then its time to work on my credit card which they have had now for 25 weeks and counting.

 

I am going for contractual interest on that one and then lastly Bank charges, could wipe out my debt if lucky, thanks for your help as usual guys. I hope what FOS have confirmed helps others on here.

[slinky252]

Help Please,

 

Its Getting ridiculous now and HSBC are showing so much incompetence in dealing with my complaint. They are still not answering questions on recorded delivery letters, one being the ppi rebate at which the point was settled? Taking ages for that answer even though they have sent me an offer.

 

But this is quite interesting, and what's funny is im now quite enjoying this battle with HSBC.

Just wondered your thoughts on this situation,

 

They have sent me a letter regarding the credit card complaint a final response they say.

 

The letter states that after reviewing the records they hold they are unable to support my complaint

.And the reason is this,

 

their records show that in July 2000, i applied for an optional Cardholder Repayment Protector to protect my HSBC Credit card,

the policy is designed to repay 10% of the outstanding credit card balance for a maximum of 12 months in the event of sickness accident or redundancy

.Life cover is also included in the plan.

 

At the time i purchased the protection it was Hsbc's process to provide you with a policy document,

which explained how the policy worked together with the claims procedure and the exclusions that applied .

 

I then had a cancellation period, which gave you the opportunity to review all the above documentation and the right to change my mind.

 

Regrettably, due to passing of time, the original documentation has not been located.

However i can confirm that it is not bank procedure to issue insurance without the appropriate documentation being completed.

I would also point out that premiums paid in respect of the plan have appeared on your statements where there has been an outstanding balance.

throughout the period your policy has been in force

 

we have no record of you contacting HSBC to query the insurance or advising that you consider the plan was mis sold.

 

This made me quite angry, so i went back to my statements and pulled out statements for May, June and July 2000 for the credit card and there it is Card Repayment Protector, Firstly i dont ever remember taking out said policy and secondly why would i take our a optional cardholder repayment protector when a there is already cardholder repayment protector already on statements previous to JULY 2000 which started in 1995.

 

I do notice however that there is a balance transfer from one card to another in the July statement so is this where they have got me

,or was this just because card expired and they just replace it.

 

they have upheld my loan because i am a firefighter and my job covers me a lot better than any ppi cover can, so this is the same is it not?

and therefore mis sold? and i have never had life cover with hsbc?

 

I am now that fed up i am considering court action due to there unproffesionalism and considering leaving fos out of this and taking them to court myself. if i do this what steps do i need to do first. This case is now littered with incompetence on the part of HSBC.

 

Thank you for any assistance guys.

Edited August 23, 2013 by slinky252

[Old Cogger]

HSBC - say no more

Edited August 24, 2013 by Old Cogger

[dx100uk]

std fob off letter

 

read this thread and reply....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?378821-LloydsTSB-Loan-PPi&p=4120422&highlight=ppi+success#post4120422

[slinky252]

Hi guys,

 

i am somewhere near a full victory with HSBC or am i?

 

I honestly cant believe the way i have been treated by the bank.

I know im not the first and certainly wont be the last, but i so feel like going with my story to the press or getting legal with them,

and telling the world, how unfair, incompetant and unproffesional they have been throughout my case against mis-sold ppi.

 

ill start here and you tell me what you all think.

I am still not finished with HSBC, Not fully but nearly there.

 

But i have to get this off my chest.

 

a little about my situ, full time fire-fighter,

over the years got into some debt and

nearly entered into a IVA but

 

 

in the end i pulled out Without signing anything and

 

 

started a debt management plan instead.

 

 

Looked into my ppi situation and

came across Midland Bank and HSBC ppi on a credit card dating back to 1997 and a front loaded ppi loan from 2000.

 

42 weeks ago i embarked on my mission to get my ppi back and sent a letter to hsbc last year requesting it back because i feel i had been mis-sold ppi.

 

They sent me a fos questionaire which i did not fill in.

 

I received a letter back from them saying they would not be looking into my complaint

because i was on an iva and considered this final and to seek advice from my IVA people.

 

News to me!!!! i have never been on an IVA.

 

 

i went to insolvency service and there it was, me on an IVA,

i could not believe it because i never entered one,

 

 

got that revoked and a nice letter of apology from company who incorrectly put me on an iva.

 

I then forwarded this to HSBC telling them of their incorrect data, now give me my money back.

 

I sent them copies of credit card statements random earliest being june 1997

and 5 more for different years all stated cardholder payment protection,

a copy of a current account statement for october 2000 with front loaded ppi

and copies of insolvency service revoked iva and letter from iva company apologising for there error

and a subject access request in march 2013 and a £10 postal order and off it went.

 

The subject access request came and the earliest info in this was 2006 and i left the bank in 2007

 

I got a call from their ppi department asking me questions asking why i thought i was miss sold,

(i guess this was because i never filled in there fos questionaire) and

 

 

then 4 weeks later i got an offer from them for the loan for about £1600 and

they said they would use this money to pay off the money i owed them with metropolitan collection services which is around £2700 for an unpaid overdraft i had with them in 2007.

which is currently being paid off in small amounts on my dmp.

 

I then asked for a full and detailed breakdown from them regarding the offer.

 

I got that 12 weeks later which included how many months i paid and when it was settled but no info on the amount of ppi rebate when the loan was settled.

 

NOW IT GETS INTERESTING

 

I wrote back after speaking with FOS and getting advice about them (HSBC) passing my money onto metropolitan to pay off debt.

I asked, because the debt i have with them has nothing to do with the loan.

 

 

FOS told me , they cannot use this money to pay off the debt. i was correct in my assumptions and

then wrote to hsbc informing them of this, and

also that could you please tell me how you know how many payments i made on the loan, and this info was not in the SAR?

 

after some time passing they still gave me no answer re why they have this data and not given it me

and that this is there final offer and thats that. oh and i still have to pay off debt with metropolitan.

 

I NOW SEEKED ADVICE FROM FOS , Information Commisioners office and also the FSA and i am now starting to enjoy this little battle.

 

I sent a letter in july asking how they have a offer when they never sent me data in the SAR.

i say you cannot pay off the debt with metopolitan because its not associated and where is my credit card offer?

 

Astonishingly i got a letter from them containing this,

here is the information you requested and it was a copy of the original letter of them telling me i was on an IVA

 

Why would i want this.

 

I then recieved another letter stating that they were not upholding the credit card ppi due to me taking out the policy in 2000

and me having a booklet explaining what it was all about and that the policy had life insurance!!!

 

OMG it gets better

not only have they not bothered to read my letters

they said i took out a policy in june 2000,

(nothing at all about 1995 when it started)

and what it states on the statements i sent.

and that i have a life insurance policy.

 

i sent a second letter requesting this info:

 

The amount of ppi rebate at the point the loan was settled

Why they know, how many payments i made and when i made them and why not included in the SAR,

which by law you know you should give me all info you have on me on the data protection act 1998

 

What life insurance is this and i have never cancelled any life insurance with hsbc because i never knew i had it??

 

A copy of a statement from june 2000 with cardholder protection on this the month before they said i took out the policy lol(saying it was there already you numpties)

And that they cant pay off debt with loan offer due to it not being associated to the debt on the dmp

 

Quite inbelievable really!!

 

letter back from them in october with offer on credit card lol after all they have said so far.

 

offering to pay redress of nearly £5000 as full and final settlement which again they say will be used to pay off my debt with metropolitan

 

also unfortunately the loan was repaid early on the 13th May 2002

and they no longer hold the specific info about the premium refunded.

 

also the reason they are using this to pay off my debt is this they state

DISP App 3 at 3.9.1.g which states " WHERE THE complainants LOAN OR CREDIT CARD IS IN ARREARS THE FIRM MAY,

IF IT HAS A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT TO DO SO, MAKE A PAYMENT TO REDUCE THE ASSOCIATED LOAN OR CREDIT CARD BALANCE "

in any event HSBC considers it unfair and unreasonable to allow a customer to benefit from a "windfall" payment from the bank where that customer owes the bank a debt.

 

i cant quite believe what im reading and WINDFALL lol after they sold this to me fraudulently.

 

Spoke to fos again just confiming if i need to pay debt off with this, they said no.

 

re sent letter again asking for answers on same thing and full and detailed breakdown of offer on credit card,

and with ICO reccomendation reminding them of their obligation under data protection act and to review there initail response.

 

They sent back a letter on 12th november with all the premiums i have paid which they hold electronically (AGAIN NOT WITHIN THE SAR THEY SENT)

and they consider because they have upheld my complaint they are not addressing any of my other issues and please accept my offer.

 

I am seething to say the least,

they are blatent liars and just talk absolute tosh.

i want to hurt them for this but how can i.

 

What do you guys reckon on all this

 

Sorry it is a long read.

[dx100uk]

met are part of HSBC

so they cold offset but only on notified arrears but way of notice of sums in arrears letters [NOSIN]

[Old Cogger]

Typical HSBC system! urrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[slinky252]

Hi dx,

 

They cannot offset ,again i have had it confirmed today by FOS they cant offset because its an overdraft and not connected to the associated debt being a loan and credit card.i know that Met are part of HSBC also.

[Old Cogger]

Interesting they did on OHs PPI claim against a joint overdraft, please verify I read the statement above correct?

[slinky252]

I have a great case against HSBC,

Showing there failings regarding my complaint,

 

 

i want them to pay for the way they are treating people and would like things changed,

 

 

i have spoken initially to ICO regarding things they have done and they are interested,

 

 

they said to sort my situation out and finalise things now both complaints have been upheld

and then put in a case against them with the ICO.

 

Then hopefully after assessment they will get a Civil monetary Fine and there findings on the internet and press.

This is what i want to happen and for things to change.

 

LOL they are clasing my offer as a Windfall, the FOS and ICO found that very interesting.

[slinky252]

Yeah you read correctly,

HSBC say they have a contractual right to set off clause

and in assessing my complaint and offering redress

they then quote the statement from the FSA

which is in my above post.

 

 

Both my Loan and credit card have been settled by me.

 

 

My debt for the overdraft is with HSBC Through the met.

 

 

If i had a loan still they could offset,

if i had a credit card still they could offset.

its an overdraft and not associated.

Fos State its not connected therefore they cant offset.

Simple as that.

[Andybars]

HSBC refer to a contractual right of set off - did their response to the Subject Access Request include the credit agreement / application in which you agreed to this contractual right.

 

If not. I would be asking what contractual right they are relying upon

[slinky252]

Interesting Andy, No it did not include any such agreement at all , only had info back to 2005 sorry not 2006.

but they have since produced electronic records back to 1997 so they have it probably got it,

 

 

just not included it they will probably magic the agreement out of thin air also.

But i will put that in my next letter to them also.

 

in there so called detailed breakdown , they have missed a few premiums which i have on statements here.

so there offer should be more. if they want statements can i charge them for copies.

 

also i think its funny that they only have records going back on this lol to the earliest statement i sent them. oh how convenient.

[dx100uk]

Hi dx,

 

They cannot offset ,again i have had it confirmed today by FOS they cant offset because its an overdraft and not connected to the associated debt being a loan and credit card.i know that Met are part of HSBC also.

 

 

I think the FOS must have their wires crossed.

 

 

the OD has not been sold its with met, in-house dca.

 

 

a debt within the same group.

 

 

I think you'll find they can.

 

 

dx

[slinky252]

No they cant dx,

 

Why do you think they have there wires crossed? if FOS say no?

 

 

did not even say debt was with Metropolitan just said it was HSBC.

 

They have confirmed this to me now three times , i just wanted to make sure again. the last guy i spoke to said ill confirm this for you and put me on hold then came back to say they cant offset.

 

Seems if FOS SAY That i am gonna believe what FOS say who else is there to confirm this other than FOS?

[dx100uk]

the debt is within the same bank

they can offset its even on the FOS website about it.

 

ideally

they should only offset against notified arrears, contained on NOSIN letters.

 

but its rarely enforced as its only an industry guideline

 

they don't 'have' to call the overdraft in either to offset.

 

an od is a debt, they can offset.

 

sadly the FOS are wrong I fell

unless you've explained things funny.

 

I would love it to be true

and would love you to get all the money.

 

see how you go.

 

dx

[Andybars]

Hi _ DX is correct that if the debt is with part of the same bank (even under a different name)

then the debt can be offset where the Bank has a contractual right to do so.

 

The application / agreement for your overdraft and/or the current account that it is associated with

will undoubtedly include a term confirming that you agree to this.

 

However, HSBC need to prove this by demonstrating the contractual terms and having failed to produce this for your DSAR,

it does make it a little more awkward for them to "magic it from thin air" although they may well tree.

If they don't produce a signed document in which you agree to a right of offset - stand your ground.

 

Whilst FOS may have "confirmed" there was no right of offset,

unfortunately they have a large number of inexperienced staff who are often unfamiliar

with their own guidelines particularly when it comes to matters of offsetting / Debt / IVA / Bankruptcy.

[slinky252]

Hi Hopefully guys we can put this one to bed now.

 

Your comments have just made me phone the FOS again re this issue,

and i wanted to know exactly if HSBC can Offset this debt i owe on a DMP for the overdraft.

 

 

they put me on hold and said they would speak to an expert in this field,

i explained your comments on a forum and that its on your website from your comments here.

 

They came back with this.

 

 

They can only offset against the product in arrears itself ,

therefore the associated loan or credit card,

 

 

i settled both the card and loan in full,

they asked if i did this.

i never missed any payments on the card or loan,

they asked if i did this. no i never missed payments.

 

They confirmed that HSBC CANNOT OFFSET MY OVERDRAFT DEBT ON A DMP

BECAUSE THAT DEBT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO (ASSOCIATED) WITH THE PPI PRODUCTS THEY MIS-SOLD ME,

and i am not in arrears either.

 

so if you read HSBC's statement which is this

 

 

"DISP App 3 at 3.9.1.g which states

 

 

" WHERE THE COMPLAINENT'S LOAN OR CREDIT CARD IS IN ARREARS THE FIRM MAY,

IF IT HAS A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT TO DO SO,

MAKE A PAYMENT TO REDUCE THE ASSOCIATED LOAN OR CREDIT CARD BALANCE "

 

 

in any event HSBC considers it unfair and unreasonable to allow a customer to benefit from a "windfall" payment

from the bank where that customer owes the bank a debt.

 

It says exactly that guys associated the overdraft is clearly not associated and they cant offset against it so brill !!!

[dx100uk]

no that's great.

 

 

it a shame that other banks don't comply to that.

 

 

dx

[Andybars]

Whilst that's great - I don't think it's over yet.

 

FOS are referring to the right of set-off under DISP APP 3 (the rules by which lenders look at PPI complaints) - HSBC appear to be arguing a more general right of set off in addition, i.e a balance on one account can be used to set off the default debit balance on another as per T&C's

 

If you do accept the offer make sure that you make clear it is only accepted conditional upon payment being made directly to you by cheque / to a specific named account of your choice - ensure that these requirements are noted on the acceptance form itself, not a separate piece of paper as some lenders have problems where covering letters regarding acceptance "become separated" from the acceptance and the payment is made in line with the original offer.

 

It would certainly do you no harm if you could get FOS to confirm what it has told you by email / letter and also attach this securely to your acceptance.

 

I have a sinking feeling you may need to escalate the case to FOS to get this paid correctly. Just to be clear, I completely disagree with the attempt to offset, its just I am familiar with the arguments that are likely to be used from bitter experience. I would be delighted to be proved wrong on your case and see HSBC pay you directly without further ado

Edited November 21, 2013 by Andybars
typo

[slinky252]

Thanks Andy,

 

I will take on board your comments and put them to good use.

 

I am going to write another letter explaining again why they cant offset, also the agreement which i did not receive in the SAR another piece of info they have not sent they are feeding off. They will no doubt find something again that they are reluctant to send. Trying to avoid FOS intervention took me just over a year so far and so close to getting what i require, after a long battle.

 

Any other hints tips suggestions on how and what i can place in the letter to make things sound better would be appreciated. And Thank you both for your comments dx and Andy

Edited November 23, 2013 by slinky252

[slinky252]

Update,

 

Just had another offer from hsbc after sending them statements they missed.

 

Letter said thank you for statements

but now your offer is lower due to actual statements i have sent

they dont go by an average figure.

 

9 statements £600 quid difference lol.

 

But here's the interesting development they said as a gesture of goodwill they will keep to the old offer figure ????????

 

And the debt i have with them on the dmp is now an optional payment should i wish to make it ???

 

They say this is due to a recent development.

 

Anybody no of any recent developments when it comes to having an option to use your redress to pay off debt you owe with them ????

 

This is a huge sway in their attitude towards my letters , im intrigued !!!