Bought a puppy with alot of problems

[Laura26]

Hi all, really not sure if this is the right forum to post this in but looking for some advice.

SO sorry for the length!!! there is just so much to say

 

Basically 1 year ago we bought a puppy, I work as a nursing assistant at a veterinary surgery so we took her to my vet the day after for a health check (we had some red flags from the breeder but this being our first puppy were slightly naive)

 

At the health check she was diagnosed with parrot jaw, basically an overshot jaw. We contacted the breeder politely and told her, she was a bit abrupt with us saying she knew about it, but its not as big of a deal as my vet was making out... anyway we ended the exchange amicably with an agreement of, or so i think of splitting the bill if it came down to her adult canines being removed in the future, which was worst case scenario. She offers to take her back, ofcourse we say no.

 

fast forward about 2 maybe 3 months or so, we realise her sight isn't quite right. Take her back the vets, he agrees something isn't right, referred us to an eye specialist. He agrees something isn't right too but that her eyes seem fine besides being slightly small for her age and head. So he suggested a neurologist as he thought it is her brain.

 

Week or so later we go there, they notice her head tilt and say yes something isn't right we'd like to do a brain scan, they were 85% sure she'd come out with hydrocephalus. She didn't, 1700 pound later (she was fully insured) they tell us her optic nerve is fine. She does seem to have muscular atrophy of the muscles in her head though and this is unique and doesn't have a name, possibility of degeneration over time but unlikely, but that it is the result of a toxic process while in utero... meaning the mum appears to have been exposed to a chemical of some form which has caused it. Advice = just keep an eye on her.

 

Take her home, some visit to vet over rashes and stuff, not thought of much.

 

We email the breeder and tell her, she practically accuses us of doing something to her and it ends with her saying she spoke to her vet and he said its a rare thing and she breeds to please blah blah, we can have a free puppy if we like... :/ i was always polite and said thank you, but right now no..

 

We take her to be spayed. My vet says he is concerned as although her parents where carrier and clear of vWd (clotting disorder, and meaning she should never be affected) he believes that the time that her swabs stayed saturated indicated to him some sort of clotting disorder and it's worth checking out (we had paid so many excesses we couldn't afford that because IN THE MEANTIME... she got this horrendous rash all over her body and she is in misery and pain and we've tried everything from hibiscrub, sudacrem, surolan, compresses, flea treatments, piriton, cortavance.

 

Finally we go to a specialist and she tested for allergies. She is allergic to 2 types of grass, rabbits, all type of dust mites, clover, mould, etc ALL KINDS. Low and behold? its hereditary.... may have skipped a generation, but hereditary all the same.

She now has to have special injections made every month for the rest of her life to try to calm her reactions down.

Honestly I am angry, i'm sad. I'm so infuriated and I don't know what to do. We love her, she was an extremely expensive dog, 800 pounds and we've spent tons. I don't begrudge her a penny but, as anyone can understand.. I'm peeved.

 

Any help would be so much appreciated. Thank you for reading.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

HI welcome to CAG, what a sad story, is this ''breeder'' Kennel Club Registerd?#

MY wife and I used to breed, show and work gun dogs many years ago, and would never have sold a pup wiith ''red flags'' especially to an inexperience new owner, it's also well known that unscroupulous ''puppy farmers'' will unload problem pups close to Christmas.

 

IMO this breeder should no have sold you the dog and has some liability for the current situation, but it would have pobably been better to have passed the pup back when the breeder made the offer.

 

If the breeder is KC registered you could ask advice from them.

[Laura26]

Hi and thank you

Honestly I did alot of research into the breed to find if it was right for us, we found it to be. I found a couple of different breeders on the kennel club website and opted to meet them and the parents. I opted for this one, but now she isn't anywhere to be found on the kennel club find a puppy service with assured breeders. I could have sworn up and down she was.. so I don't get that. She gave us a kennel club reg form and also 4 weeks free insurance with them if that means anything?

 

I wouldn't of had the heart to pass the puppy back, as we made a promise to look after her and honestly from seeking advice heard she would have probably been put to sleep for her defects, how true that is I don't know and obviously I can't be sure, but either way I understand I probably should have, I couldn't have predicted this mess though.

I did contact the kennel club they said they couldn't do anything and I contatced the CAB who forwarded me onto consumer direct who said if she runs a buisness in dog breeding then I have rights, if she's a casual breeder I don't. But I'm fairly sure she's a costant business breeder.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This does sound ike puppy farmer they are the lowest of the low when it comes to the care of the animals, why not contact the RSPCA in the area where you bought you bought the pup, if there have been other concerns about this breeder they may know.

[Laura26]

I am not sure if she would be considered a farmer? she owns 7 of the dogs, she is on champ dogs, my dogs mum was second at crufts in 2007 or something I believe. I'm just not sure she'd fall under that?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I am not sure if she would be considered a farmer? she owns 7 of the dogs, she is on champ dogs, my dogs mum w??s second at crufts in 2007 or something I believe. I'm just not sure she'd fall under that?

I think something is wrong anx experience breeder and shower would not sell a dog with potentially serious problems many times in the past I've seen breed lines that have been inbred with resulting serious defects.

 

What breed is this?

[Laura26]

A doberman, the only one she knew of was the parrot jaw, she may have been unaware of the rest

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Check the RSPCA if you get a chance.

[Laura26]

Ok, I will give them a call in the morning,

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'll move your thread to the Pets and Vets forum and leave you a short term link here.

 

The animals people may have some more comments for you.

 

My best, HB

[Laura26]

Thanks so much!

[assisted blonde]

check with licensing at the local council as dog breeders are registered with them if she is registered make a complaint if shes not get them to check it out.

[hightail]

I think they only have to be registered with the council if they have more than a given number of litters per year or a certain number of breeding animals. owning seven dogs won't count if only a couple are bred from.

[assisted blonde]

Might still count but worth checking anyway

[hightail]

Basically 1 year ago we bought a puppy, I work as a nursing assistant at a veterinary surgery so we took her to my vet the day after for a health check

At the health check she was diagnosed with parrot jaw, basically an overshot jaw

She offers to take her back, of course we say no

Why? You'd had the dog 24 hours. You were unhappy enough with finding an overshot jaw that you contacted the breeder but wouldn't agree to return the pup.

and honestly from seeking advice heard she would have probably been put to sleep for her defects

If this is what you'd heard about this breeder why on earth had you bought from them in the first place?

[fenwoman]

'parrot jaw'? ITYM she is overshot which is not dangerous or life threatening. The breeder tested for Von Willbrands so she is obviously a conscientious person. To my knowledge allergies aren't hereditary. It sounds like you didn't get advice, nor did you take an experienced person with you even though you knew you didn't know what you were doing. The breeder offered to take the pup back and either refund you or give you another puppy and you chose not to accept. It sounds like you bought a pup after doing very little research and now want the pup plus your money back. Why is everyone ready to accept what the OP says and demonise the breeder, call her a puppy farmer etc? Breeders have to deal with all kinds of people who want to buy their puppies and then when the new owners realise that they have spent a lot of money on a pet which isn't perfect, and start to complain and moan they bend over backwards to try to rectify the issues but nothing is ever enough for the new owners. The poor breeder is stuck between a rock and a hard place and nothing she attempts is good enough it seems.

[Surfer01]

Why are you defending the actions of these people and pet shop owners that treat animals poorly?

[fenwoman]

Why are you defending the actions of these people and pet shop owners that treat animals poorly?

I wasn't aware that I was. I thought I stated that we only have one side of the story and that I didn't think it was fair to villify the breeder when we have not heard her side of the story. I have this odd notion that I try to treat people fairly and expect them to do the same. However, I have found on different internet forums that fairness is a rare thing indeed and people are very quick to hang, draw and quarter someone without getting all the facts. That's not fair, that's hysteria and mob rule.

[Laura26]

'parrot jaw'? ITYM she is overshot which is not dangerous or life threatening. The breeder tested for Von Willbrands so she is obviously a conscientious person. To my knowledge allergies aren't hereditary. It sounds like you didn't get advice, nor did you take an experienced person with you even though you knew you didn't know what you were doing. The breeder offered to take the pup back and either refund you or give you another puppy and you chose not to accept. It sounds like you bought a pup after doing very little research and now want the pup plus your money back. Why is everyone ready to accept what the OP says and demonise the breeder, call her a puppy farmer etc? Breeders have to deal with all kinds of people who want to buy their puppies and then when the new owners realise that they have spent a lot of money on a pet which isn't perfect, and start to complain and moan they bend over backwards to try to rectify the issues but nothing is ever enough for the new owners. The poor breeder is stuck between a rock and a hard place and nothing she attempts is good enough it seems.

 

I would like to clarify.

 

I never said parrot jaw, which yes is an overshot (as stated in my original post), was life threatening. But I let the breeder know that there was a possibility that due to the lower canine sitting in the gaps of her upper canine, this was causing problems with the puppy drooling and closing her mouth fully, as well as the possibility of causing further issues as her adult teeth grew in. I informed the breeder of the potential for problems but that there was obviously a possibility of her being absolutely fine, and that we could wait and see, but if she required the removal would she consider splitting the bill?

 

A breeder would be completely stupid to not test this breeds' vWd status. So i'll ignore that one.

 

Genetics can certainly play a part in allergies.

 

Not sure why you think we did no research. But me and my husband searched for quite a while for what we believe to be a good breeder. We chose one, after visiting different ones, and after exchanging emails and calls for a while we decided to go with her.

 

First off, she withheld the information about the jaw issue. I understand that I could have given the puppy back to her as soon as i found out she had the problem but we had made a commitment to the puppy and after advice from various groups was told there was a possibility that she may not, due to having so many dogs already, not keep her nor be able to re-home her.

I did not once ask for my money back, it was not about that. It was about being basically lied to, not given the opportunity to make a decision, and she knew full well when we took her home we would not just say "ugh, she has an overshot, lets give her back" when there was a possibility nothing would come of it.

 

Everything else that has come about, has been hereditary, and at the most we wanted her to be informed so that maybe she would not continue to breed these dogs. We LUCKILY, insured her for life and so it hasn't been too bad. But when we told her she was having her brain scanned she said something must have happened as she was perfectly healthy when she left.

 

 

I am not the breeder, so obviously i cannot give you her side, but I have kept all of our email exchanges throughout and have been nothing but polite, saying we just wanted to keep her informed on how she is. That we want her to know of what is going on with her but that we are sad, disapointed about how she is suffering.

 

I don't think you were being exactly polite and fair in saying I did not seek advice, or take an experienced person? I don't think anyone would have predicted we would have information withheld.

I can clarify anything that anyone is wondering

 

Thanks

Edited December 30, 2012 by Laura26

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Why are you defending the actions of these people and pet shop owners that treat animals poorly?

 

This was a reputable registered dealer, not a pet shop, the vast majority of dog breeders do it to benefit their chosen breeds, showing dogs and advancing the care of all dogs.

 

These are not the notorious ''puppy farmers'' and disreputable pet shops, thankfully mostly out of business because of vigilance and regulation.

 

(How do I know?? my wife and were dog breeders (springers and cockers working/show/pets) for many years.

[hightail]

Whereas I understand an owner's frustration here, what I don't understand is why they are directing so much anger at the breeder. The breeder offered to take back the pup. What else were they meant to do? It is the vets who have cost the owner so much money in misdiagnosis and subsequent unnecessary testing. It isn't the breeder who pocketed £1700 because they were 85% sure of something - and wrong. Regarding this scan the breeder was quite correct that the dog didn't have the condition you were looking for. Vet then comes up with woolly and wild comments about exposure to 'some form of chemical'. I can only assume this was double talk to try and justify the procedure as it's honestly meaningless.

 

I did not once ask for my money back

No but you could have and would have got it or a replacement pup.

 

First off, she withheld the information about the jaw issue

Did she? Is this something which is obvious from birth or is it something which develops and/or becomes apparent as the animal grows? I have a kitten in my current litter with a different but equally harmless imperfection which is not apparent by the age puppies are rehomed. It's only because pedigree kittens are kept longer by the breeder that I noticed it. Even my vet didn't on a first health check at nine weeks - because it wasn't noticable.

 

and after advice from various groups was told there was a possibility that she may not, due to having so many dogs already, not keep her nor be able to re-home her

What groups? Had you know these people well for some considerable time and had reason to trust their judgement. If you had such friends why didn't you seek their advice when looking for a pup in the first place?

[Laura26]

I think people are misunderstanding. I haven't gone off on the breeder. I haven't asked for anything from her besides a vet bill split IF she needed her canines removed and have since retracted that as they are improved.

The brain scan was absolutely necessary. My dog was having sight issues, she had a head tilt, was sticking her face in her water bowl, running into things... we thought she was partially blind as her menace reflex was almost none existent.

I don't really understand why people don't trust highly specialised veterinary neurologists.

 

The breeder TOLD ME she already knew about the overshot jaw the day after we had taken her and had her looked at.

 

I have noooo clue what you're talking about with this " Regarding this scan the breeder was quite correct that the dog didn't have the condition you were looking for"

 

Unless you're an expert in the field.. I don't think it's anyone's place to say the neurologist lied and made stuff up to make the scan seem feasible.

 

Fighting about whether I was wrong in not giving the puppy back straight away is quite useless to be honest, i already said I acknowledge that. But thanks for the input.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Laura26

[hightail]

Fighting about whether I was wrong in not giving the puppy back straight away is quite useless to be honest,

It isn't useless. It's fundamental in a consumer issue. You cannot expect a seller to pay for 'repairs' to something they sold you when you were given every chance not to incur any costs in the first place. I'm sorry if that sounds blunt but it is the core of any case you may feel you have.

[Laura26]

It isn't useless. It's fundamental in a consumer issue. You cannot expect a seller to pay for 'repairs' to something they sold you when you were given every chance not to incur any costs in the first place. I'm sorry if that sounds blunt but it is the core of any case you may feel you have.

 

Blunt doesn't bother me, I appreciate any advice.

 

Like I said, wasn't looking to take her to court, just was angry we feel we were misled, and our pup is suffering, didn't want the same to happen to anyone else.

Thanks for advice.