Kevboy_telford Vs LLoyds

[missc1974]

Hi

I've just had my decision from Court today - its been dismissed. I have to go to judgement on the 15th. is there anything I can do?????

 

Why has it been dismissed?

 

honestly ltsb are the biggest pain in the ass ever.

 

had my judgement issued yesterday online with mcol as they never defended however i can tell its gonna be all fun and games as lloyds seem to make there own rules

[Kevboy_telford]

It's a 23 page report so I'll try and summarize...

 

24. It follows in my judgment that none of the charges complained of were imposed by reason of any breach of contract on Mr [Kevboy_telford]'s Part. It follows also that the law relating to penalties and damages ... has no application for those charges.

25. In this respect, it is worth observing the position is potentially materially different between a case such as this which concerns charges applied to a current account and other cases, such as those dealt with in the OFTs position statement, which involve credit cards. In the operation of credit card accounts, the customer is typically under an obligation to make a minimum payment to his account each month... If he is in breach [of this obligation], any charge provided for by the terms of his contract is potentially justiciable as a penalty. I express no views on the merits of that argument in such a case, or upon the OFTs stated position in relation to such charges.

26. ... [Kevboy_telford] referred me to sections 3 and 4 of that Act [the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977], but in my judgement neither of these sections is of relevance ... There is no suggestion here of any negligence or breach of contract by the bank such as would engage these sections.

34. In my judgement ... in considering for the purposes of section 15 [supply of Goods and Services Act 1982] what is a reasonable charge for the service provided by the bank, an assessment would have to be made of the whole package of charges made by the bank for the whole service it provides. Potentially this would be a very difficult and expensive exercise. It is certainly not one which can be conducted within the confines of this case and on the evidence before me ... There is no evidence before me from which I could conclude that, taking into account the other elements of the service provided by the bank without charge, these particular charges were unreasonable.

38. Accordingly I reject the argument under section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act...

41. In my judgement ... this paragraph [1(e) of schedule 2, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999] is inapplicable; I have held that Mr [Kevboy_telford] was not in breach of contract, it follows that the charges imposed on him are not compensation for any breach of obligation by him.

44. Having held that the charges complained of are not charges for breach of contract but part of the price of the services provided by the bank, it follows in my judgement that regulation 6(2) prevents the court from making any determination that they are unfair...

45. I conclude therefore that despite the clarity with which Mr [Kevboy_telford] presented his case he has not satisfied me that he has any ground in law for recovering from the bank the amount of any charges which he has paid to it... Accordingly, I must dismiss his claim.

 

I have a Judgment handing down hearing on the 15th May to deal with any matters arising. Is there anything I can do in the mean time?

[missc1974]

its all double dutch to me - i thought no one had lost in court before now? or is being dismissed different? sorry im having a total blonde moment - think what im saying is i dont understand a word of it - hope someone can help you though

[nicsussex]

I have sent a PM to GAry H to get him to have a look at this

[GaryH]

Thanks Nic.

 

Kevin, I've PM'd you. Can you provide me with a scan or fax of the full judgement as soon as possible please.

 

Did Lloyds turn up at court? If so, who?

 

What track was the claim heard on?

 

Did you submit a bundle?

 

Did they? Any witness statement? (if so I'll need a copy of that as well)

 

Any other details or any summery you can give me would be very helpful.

 

What interest were you claiming?

 

Was their defence the usual 9 pointer?

 

Sorry about all the questions, but they are necessary.

[nicsussex]

Kevin - you are in the best possible hands now - but please do act quickly as Gary says

[bobcatman]

Bump

[Mad Hatter]

I think these guys will be able to help Kev

[remus]

Kevboy T, bet your gutted, all I can say is we are all behind you, and hopefully the one's with the knowledge will be in front.

Take care and good luck,

you are not alone:)

[Alphageek]

That sucks Kevboy. I'm sure the CAG brainies will be along to help out if there is anything you can do.

[nas2211]

Hi Kev,

 

Martin Lewis of Money Saving Expert has been discussing your case in his blog see link below

 

MoneySavingExpert: Consumer Revenge, Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more

 

he states that he is prepared to help you with your appeal if your finances can't stretch to it. Martin Lewis knows his stuff, if I were you I'd get in touch with him via his website asap!

 

Good luck

[Alphageek]

Set up a paypal account and if everyone donates £10.00 to your fund, you can take them to appeal.

 

I'll be the 1st to donate and I don't even have a LLoyds account.

[thombleached]

How much will an appeal cost?

[Kevboy_telford]

Thank you all for the words of encouragement

There is a copy of the final judgment on the BBC

(which I haven't got myself )

BBC NEWS | Business | Bank's overdraft charges upheld

 

Please note I am the second case he mentions.

 

I have seen my mention on Martin Lewis's site and some of your ideas of getting a paypal account to fund an appeal. I am considering my options at the moment - still, to be honest, in shock that the judge didn't change his verdict.

The first time I went to court (mid-April) I was in for over 1 hr being cross examined.

 

It also seems that Lloyds had overlooked my claim.

 

I do believe that this judgment was unusual and is not about to become the norm. I hope it hasn't put anyone off claiming back their bank charges, and that the rest of you will continue with your claims.

 

Many thanks to everyone who has helped along the way so far, especially to Bankfodder, GaryH & Tom Brennan.

 

Cheers,

 

Kev

[carter56]

kev i am here to support you like everyone one here. take all the advice you can and let some of the big guns on here and martin lewis help you out. its just a battle they have won - not the war. deep breath and regroup and on with the fight

[hudu]

Echo that. Keep fighting for yourself and for us all mate.

[itsamomentintime]

kev i am still unsure s to why the judge rule against you

 

i mean, did you make a glaring error ('illegal' instead of 'unlawful' wording)

 

OR did the judge simply believe that the charges are actually fair?

[Kazzie]

Set up a paypal account and if everyone donates £10.00 to your fund, you can take them to appeal.

 

I'll be the 1st to donate and I don't even have a LLoyds account.

 

Thats a good idea, i'd be happy to donate as well.

[TECHSPEC]

Having read the judement, and hearing that Lloyds TSB had actually forgot about you, my heart goes out to you for this fluke of a judgement.

 

Having just sent in the balifs to Lloyds TSB, i am relieved that they did not take me that far.

 

There are many comments in the judement that seem a farce. For example, why did YOU have to prove what the bank charges cost. Surely only the bank can do that, and they are refusing point blank.

 

In any case, their failure to show, should have been enough for the case to be awarded to you. After all, i won by default with MCOL, so whats the difference in your case.

 

I hope you take up Martin's offer, and i for one, would make a donation.

[Katpaps]

Go for it and take them on Kev! You have thousands of peoples support and these EDITED need stopped once and for all!!

 

Good luck!

 

xx

[BarclaysHater77]

Hiya Kev

 

Sorry to hear about your case but great to see your case is going to be bankrolled for you what good guys out there. Firstly can I say go for it if Martin Lewis and the likes wanna support you what have you got to lose.

I am however very scared now as I am going to court with Barclays on the 8th of June in Milton Keynes and am very worried about how to present my case to the judge can anybody help me with what I should be saying in exact words to the judge and it would be really helpful Kev if you could send me details of what grilling questions you were asked so as myself and others can investigate what we should be responding with. So far on three sites nobody has been able to tell me how to present my case and what to say so hope this gets some attention as I have £3200 at stake and a £601 debt they are likly to chase me for should I lose.

 

Good luck and let them have it both barrells.

 

Barry

[BarclaysHater77]

p.s anyone near Milton Keynes wanna show support on the 8th of June get in touch

[Alphageek]

Point 30 of the judgement relating to your case is a disgrace. How can the judge assert that the onus is on you to provide evidence of the bank's costs.

 

How does he suggest you prepare this evidence when you don't have access to the banks information relating to their costings?

[wsm36]

This is unbelievable, so sorry for you Kev just hope that this was a one off and that it is not going to be the norm. Just shows you the contempt they have for the courts when they don't even show up, typical.

[Alphageek]

Point 33 made me laugh. I thought Judges were supposed to be in touch with modern society.