Sherforce Again PLEASE HELP !!!

[Jemjubs]

I have had a visit from Sherforce, not sure if it is real or if it is persons pretending to be Sherforce!

 

I wont go into details at the moment but we have not had the relevant high court papers from the utility company that I am aware of and also no debt that was owed to them that I am aware of, just the yearly statement and total now due of circa £100.00.

 

I have contacted the police and utility company to try and verify if this was legitimate (I was told to expect a call back from the utility company enforcement team in 48-72 hrs). RIDICULOUS !!!

 

Judgement and costs show as £900.OO (£750.00 + £150.00)

interest £20.00

Cost of visit £950.00 (first point of contact).

 

I was told by the enforcement officer not to ring the 0845 number on their paperwork, as it would go to an Indian call exchange and to ring the enforcement officer on his mobile

 

Told the car will be removed etc etc if not paid in full by tomorrow !!!

 

I then had a call from a 0207 number 20mins later and was asked to make an immediate payment on a card, (I said no and stated that I needed to find out whether we had any relevant paper work at home) He asked for my email address and said he would send copies through (No email has has turned up yet)

 

My wife and I have turned the house upside down and found none !!!

 

Have I gone mad? should I not have been served court papers or had some form of communication before a visit?

 

There was also a mention of an online court procedure that may have been done (Not a clue what he was on about).

 

Help and advice much appreciated......

Edited January 25, 2012 by Jemjubs

[ploddertom]

I have had a visit from Sherforce, not sure if it is real or if it is persons pretending to be Sherforce! Work on the principle it is real

 

I wont go into details at the moment but we have not had the relevant high court papers from the utility company that I am aware of and also no debt that was owed to them that I am aware of, just the yearly statement and total now due of circa £100.00. I'll hazard a guess this may be for a water bill

 

I have contacted the police and utility company to try and verify if this was legitimate (I was told to expect a call back from the utility company enforcement team in 48-72 hrs). RIDICULOUS !!!

 

Judgement and costs show as £900.OO (£650.00 + £150.00) - my maths shows this as £800

interest £20.00

Cost of visit £950.00 (first point of contact).

 

I was told by the enforcement officer not to ring the 0845 number on their paperwork, as it would go to an Indian call exchange and to ring the enforcement officer on his mobile - in some respects he is correct as their call centre operatives have a script they are not allowed to deviate from

 

Told the car will be removed etc etc if not paid in full by tomorrow !!! - have you been issued with a Notice of Seizure if not remove it ASAP to somewhere well out of the way.

 

I then had a call from a 0207 number 20mins later and was asked to make an immediate payment on a card, (I said no and stated that I needed to find out whether we had any relevant paper work at home) He asked for my email address and said he would send copies through (No email has has turned up yet)

 

My wife and I have turned the house upside down and found none !!!

 

Have I gone mad? should I not have been served court papers or had some form of communication before a visit?

 

There was also a mention of an online court procedure that may have been done (Not a clue what he was on about). Probably an application through the County Court Bulk Centre at Northampton

 

Help and advice much appreciated......

 

I gather from your reaction you know nothing about having a CCJ against you? Is the first you knew about this when the HCEO has turned up? Leaving all the fees to one side at present are you in a position to be able to pay the original Judgment in full? Is there a particular reason why this bill may have been overlooked?

 

PT

[wonkeydonkey]

You say you have had nothing other than a statement that shows the amount due to be £100 approx, can I take it you pay each month and the end of year balance if any, is then requested? have spoken with the Company concerned?

 

WD

[Jemjubs]

I gather from your reaction you know nothing about having a CCJ against you? Is the first you knew about this when the HCEO has turned up? Leaving all the fees to one side at present are you in a position to be able to pay the original Judgment in full? Is there a particular reason why this bill may have been overlooked?

 

PT

 

Yes I can pay the original judgement in full but I can not find a CCJ or any correspondence in the last couple of years from the utility company relating to this.

 

The only thing that is unusual, is that when reviewing the utility company bill statements, there was an amount of £800.00 paid to them last year and that cleared any backlog and showed a zero balance, I have also just found a reference in small writing at the end of the statement that says £750.00 is subject to court action.... It is in very small writing and is after the the total now due amounts (not even in bold print) !!! (this bill was dated Feb 2011 for the April 2011 - March 2012 year). I can only guess that it might be an old case that has been flagged up by Sherforce with the offer of recovery being made to the utility company.

 

Regarding any reason why the bill or a CCJ would of been overlooked, I am at a loss to know andI can find no record of it other than the bit on the statement?

 

Oh and yes there is a notice of legal control of goods that was handed over to my daughter.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Jemjubs

[ploddertom]

The Legal Control notice is a Form 55 and on that if you look closely probably top right hand corner:

High Court Claim No: WFxxxxxxxxxx

County Court Claim No: yyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Sent from zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz County Court by Cerificate date aa/bb/cccc

Name - Claimant

Name - Youreself as Defendant

 

This form gives the appearance they have seized all your goods. However in order to do so they first need to gain peaceful entry to your home - whatever happens deny him entry. He may have seized goods externally - most notably a motor vehicle - if he has you should have been left a Notice of Seizure describing the goods seized - this is a legal requirement. If you have a detached garage or other outbuildings he is allowed to force entry if he believes there are goods inside to satisfy the debt. If he cannot gain entry he remains powerless although he will be racking up the fees.

 

Going back to the original CCJ, if you did not receive the original Court documents then you could apply for Set Aside giving you the chance to defend/counterclaim/make offer of payment. You apply for this on Form N244 and it must be sent to the Court where the original CCJ was awarded. If on certain Benefits or a low wage then you will also need Form EX160 as you may be entitled to fee remission. All forms available from the Courts website.

 

The most important application however is for a Stay of Execution against the HCEO. Your grounds for applying are you cannot afford the fees that are being applied + you are applying for Set Aside against the original CCJ. This application again is done on Form N244 and should where possible be taken in person to a Court that provides a District Registry or if possible to the RCJ in London. You must impress on who you see that it is an urgent application - usually a Judge may be found who will your application on the spot.

 

You should also write to the HCEO and ask for a Statement of Fees to date - more on this at a later stage. This company are renowned for loading most of their fees before the Officer has even vacated the building. Many of the fees are challengeable.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

May I ask how old your daughter is?

[Jemjubs]

May I ask how old your daughter is?

 

LOL

 

That got my first smile of the day !!!

 

25ys

 

Rightly or wrongly, I have emailed Sherforce this.....

 

A visit was made in my absence today by ............ ........... to my home address.

 

Can I firstly make it very clear that I have funds available and will be paying any sum that is fairly due to Southern Water without delay.

 

Please be aware, that there is therefore no need to seize property from my home address or add additional costs.

 

The receptionist for the Southern Water enforcement office has stated that they will be getting back to me within 48-72hrs but hopefully sooner.

 

I am also awaiting paperwork by email from your office (TEL- 0207...... ........ ) that was promised to me shortly after Mr .............. visit.

 

At the moment I am at a loss, to understand why this action has been taken, as I have received no calls or communication from Southern Water or yourselves regarding this matter, prior to todays visit.

 

Hopefully the Southern Water enforcement office will be able to throw light on the matter, as they were paid £820.23 by me last year to clear up any existing debt, hence my confusion.

 

I therefore respectfully ask that you put 'on hold' any further action that is liable to incur costs for the next 7 days.

 

I will aslo ring Mr ............... in the morning to inform him of the situation.

 

 

 

PT.... Thank you for all your help, I will make a note of everything you and the others say as I do feel costs of £950.00 for a single visit are just ridiculous. Amazed any utility company could or would be allowed to sanction such disproportionate fees.

[wonkeydonkey]

If you are sincere in wanting to resolve this then follow to the letter what PT writes above.

 

You will soon come to realise Sherfarce are a waste of space and their only focuse is to get what they can out of you, when you question the charges they will run straight to the High Court for a detailed assessment of their charges claiming they have been administered correctly.

 

WD

[Jemjubs]

If you are sincere in wanting to resolve this then follow to the letter what PT writes above.

 

You will soon come to realise Sherfarce are a waste of space and their only focuse is to get what they can out of you, when you question the charges they will run straight to the High Court for a detailed assessment of their charges claiming they have been administered correctly.

 

WD

 

Thank you, yes I am very sincere and greatly appreciate any advice given, I have had a look at the form (N244) and need to find out which court issued the CCJ, hopefully Southern Water will tell me this, I can't print it and take it in today as I am working and the printer has just packed in (Sigh).

 

Do you know if Tunbridge Wells has a District Registry ?

 

Would it be a good move for me to pay Southern Water directly? This would be for the amount that was shown as the original court cost and the debt £750.00 I am happy to do this and could do it today by transfer or over the phone.

 

At what time would it be best to ask the HCEO and ask for a Statement of Fees to date? Now or once I have spoken to the Southern Water enforcement team and know a little more about the matter?

 

 

I really can't understand how this kind of thing can be allowed to go on with a utility company, it really is time that this sort of thing is highlighted in the media. I have just come out of a very bad 3yr period, work and debt wise, which was then compounded with the loss of my mother. I have nearly cleared all debt and the work prospects are good but also had a bad experience with signing a deed in Oct 2010 (nothing to do with this 2 days after the loss of my mother), that effectively agreed to pay all costs and interest which ultimately amounted to 3x the claimed sum due due to a £200hr solicitor that loved writing letters, the record was eleven in a month!. That was to avoid a bankruptcy petition (naive I know but all sorted now by a very nice Judge with realistic stage payments over a year and lesson learned).

 

Thank you once again, especially PT, thank goodness places like this exist! Just a shame that it has been yet another sleepless night for my wife and I

Edited January 26, 2012 by Jemjubs

[brassnecked]

Hang in there you are in good hands with ploddertom and wonkeydonkey, you could pay it in directly to Southern Water if they will accept it, this would remove the need for any enforcement to continue. Sherfarce will spit out the dummy, and all the toys from their pram, and possibly carry on trying to enforce for their fees alone, not sure if this is kosher if the creditor has accepted payment, PT and WD will know with certainty,

 

They may threaten to go to a High Court Master to "TAX" or validate the legitimacy of their fees, but they are doing this a little too often, and this is beginning to be noticed in the MOJ.

[wonkeydonkey]

Thank you, yes I am very sincere and greatly appreciate any advice given, I have had a look at the form (N244) and need to find out which court issued the CCJ, hopefully Southern Water will tell me this, I can't print it and take it in today as I am working and the printer has just packed in (Sigh).

 

Do you know if Tunbridge Wells has a District Registry ? Yes it shows as DR on HMCTS website

 

Would it be a good move for me to pay Southern Water directly? This would be for the amount that was shown as the original court cost and the debt £750.00 I am happy to do this and could do it today by transfer or over the phone. Chances are Sherfarce have seen this post and have already been in touch with SW advising them not to accept payment but it is always worth a try?

 

At what time would it be best to ask the HCEO and ask for a Statement of Fees to date? Now or once I have spoken to the Southern Water enforcement team and know a little more about the matter? adjust the template below and send by email (followed by hard copy recorded post) asap.

 

From:

My Name

My Address

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

 

I really can't understand how this kind of thing can be allowed to go on with a utility company, it really is time that this sort of thing is highlighted in the media. I have just come out of a very bad 3yr period, work and debt wise, which was then compounded with the loss of my mother. I have nearly cleared all debt and the work prospects are good but also had a bad experience with signing a deed in Oct 2010 (nothing to do with this 2 days after the loss of my mother), that effectively agreed to pay all costs and interest which ultimately amounted to 3x the claimed sum due due to a £200hr solicitor that loved writing letters, the record was eleven in a month!. That was to avoid a bankruptcy petition (naive I know but all sorted now by a very nice Judge with realistic stage payments over a year and lesson learned).

 

Thank you once again, especially PT, thank goodness places like this exist! Just a shame that it has been yet another sleepless night for my wife and I

 

 

Hope this helps

 

WD

[Jemjubs]

Thank you once again, I will sit down and try and digest all this advice tonight.

 

One question...... what's the scenario (for the sake of my sanity and marriage), if I pay in full to Sherforce and then try to dispute the HCEO fees. I would certainly like to issue a counter claim against Southern Water's disgusting behaviour regarding the debt and their inaction in the lead-up to a writ. I was told today that they had tried to ring in November but didn't have my telephone number !!! When I suggested that they should have tried directory inquiries or beter still pay a visit, they said they could not justify the cost of such action, yet it is OK for their appointed HCSO to charge £950.00 at first point of contact and then state that seizing the car would cost another £1000.00 all within 24hrs !!!

 

The one saving grace is that the HCSO agent that visited seems a half decent guy in that he does try to explain things (let the flaming commence), well I did say I am a little naive at times.

 

He has explained that if the court write of CCJ was an email one (I think it is Northampton) then I might not have received it? Very probably, as if Southern Water didn't have my telephone number despite me being on the same number for 14 years, you can bet your life that they didn't have my email address !!!

 

I looked on the HMCTS website to find out if Kingston upon Thames is District Registry but I have to confess, I don't know if Kingston is even after looking ?

 

I guess the crux is, do I cave in and pay up for the sake of some sleep and try to follow things up later or do I fill out a N244 form and hope the car isn't towed away first with additional costs and fees?

 

One last thing.... I had assumed the yearly statement that showed £200.00cr and £620.00cr were payments that I had made on the £820.00. How wrong I was, Southern Water have pointed out today that the £620.00cr transaction was actually £620.00 moved by them from from the invoice statement, as they were going to start legal proceedings. Call be an idiot but when I see £620.00cr transaction credited to me on a statement I naturally assume that my wife or I have paid it. :/

Edited January 26, 2012 by Jemjubs

[ploddertom]

If you can afford to pay the whole lot including all the fees then despite going very much against the grain I would suggest you pay in full. This gives you the breathing space you need to then collect all the info you need to get any overpayment back. As I said last night you seem eminently suitable to be able to apply for Set Aside as you received no paperwork, you can then honestly say the first you knew was when the HCEO turned up on your doorstep. The fact you have paid in full will go for you, and if granted Set Aside then they have to repay every last penny back to you including all the HCEO fees. You then pay SW what you owed only - no court costs, these then become their problem.

 

PT

[Jemjubs]

If you can afford to pay the whole lot including all the fees then despite going very much against the grain I would suggest you pay in full. This gives you the breathing space you need to then collect all the info you need to get any overpayment back. As I said last night you seem eminently suitable to be able to apply for Set Aside as you received no paperwork, you can then honestly say the first you knew was when the HCEO turned up on your doorstep. The fact you have paid in full will go for you, and if granted Set Aside then they have to repay every last penny back to you including all the HCEO fees. You then pay SW what you owed only - no court costs, these then become their problem.

 

PT

 

Thank you PT, you have hit the nail on the head, this is probably the first time in about three years that I can pay the whole lot, as stated, myself, my wife and my 25 year old daughter who opens the mail and enters the accounts can all produce witness statements declaring this is the first we have known about this matter.

 

This presents the question of who's lying? The only comeback on this, is that all my other CCJ's (2009 - 2011) have either been paid in full or have payment plans in place. NONE WERE IGNORED !!!

 

There is also the fact that I contacted the police straight away after the HCEO visited my home address and spoke to my daughter, followed by the rather the odd Indian call centre demand for payment 20 mins later on my mobile number that my daughter had just given the HCEO that rung alarm bells that it could be a set up by fraudsters (oh the irony) to get card details. I do have the police reference for this call, so I dare say there is a recording of it.

 

Breathing space is what I need because I can not mentally cope with much more, if this had happened a year ago, I would have probably been sent over the edge.... literally !

 

So from what you are saying, (even though it is against the grain) is to pay now and then apply for set-aside. Do I do this on the N244 form or something else?

 

If I do make payment in full to Sherforce, should I send them the request for breakdown of charges that Wonkydonkey kindly put as a template and should I make it clear in email, fax and hard copy that the payment is made in good faith but it would be my intention to dispute fees and the legality of the claim procedure carried out by Southern Water.

 

If I do pay, should I be requesting a written acknowledgement of my payment terms before I give them my card number and should I insist on a receiving court papers prior to any payment. At the moment I have nothing whatsoever, even though the man from the Indian the call centre with the 0207 number said he would email me them yesterday.

 

Many thanks guys, I think I am beginning to make some sense of this now, so please bear with me.

[ploddertom]

There should be a PM winging its way to you. Reason being it has certain info that should be kept from the enemy. Site Team copied in.

 

PT

[Jemjubs]

There should be a PM winging its way to you. Reason being it has certain info that should be kept from the enemy. Site Team copied in.

 

PT

 

Thanks for the info, one winging its way back to you......

[tomtubby]

As the "experts" are giving such good advice on this enquiry, I will go and help somebody else. But before doing so, I would like to add a comment that hopefully, may get the attention of this company.

 

If the fees of £950 for an initial visit are correct then is it any wonder that debtors are now resorting to writing to the head office of the Ministry Of Justice at Petty France to complain at these frankly unbelievable fees.

 

There was a very serious email from the High Court Enforcement Officers Association that was sent to all members a few months ago where they outlined THEIR concerns at the fees being charged by some of their members and the way in which the public are seeing High Court Enforcement companies as worse that bailiff firms.

 

Complaints about the level of fees should also be made to the judgment creditor.

[ploddertom]

Inbox now cleared

[Jemjubs]

Very interesting email from The Consumer Council for Water (CCWater), good to know that there are some people who are prepared to raise question about Southern Water Services Ltd conduct !!!

[wonkeydonkey]

Yorkshire Water would be of interest to them also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WD

[Jemjubs]

Yorkshire Water would be of interest to them also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WD

 

I guess they would

 

I am seriously thinking of looking into setting up some kind of lobby group to highlight the abuse of High Court Enforcement, signed deeds and Bankruptcy petitions with grossly inflated fees and threats. I have been stung by all three in the last year and I am now in the mood for a fight, I am not very clued up on legal matters but I learn quick. What I do have on my side is financial security for the next year, good media connections and tenacity by the bucket load.

 

Please be assured, I will not rest until Southern Water are bought to book for the disgusting way they have behaved towards me and god knows how many others, once I have dealt with this, I will happily go after the others that condone this sort of action on their consumers.

 

If anyone is interested in setting up a register of people on here who have been hit in this way,, then please do, what better way than to start with Southern Water, then Yorkshire and god knows who else !!!

 

I don't think it would need to be much more than claimant, principle debt and the amount once claimed fees, solicitor costs and HCEO costs have been added in the first instance, however, If people are happy to discuss the matter with regulators and alike then all the better !!!

 

Once again, thanks to WD and PT for all your help.

[ploddertom]

Yorkshire Water would be of interest to them also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WD

 

Isn't it strange that both choose to use Sherforce, isn't also very strange that most of these are coming through as Judgment in Default.

 

Or is it just my suspicious mind.

[brassnecked]

Isn't it strange that both choose to use Sherforce, isn't also very strange that most of these are coming through as Judgment in Default.

 

Or is it just my suspicious mind.

No I am equally suspicious, it is strange that so many of these with Sherfarce collecting are default judgments, all with around £1k or more of fees at the first visit, have they got a profit share with the utility who gets a percentage of the fee collected as well as the principal debt. In a similar manner to how councils are after a share of the fees (unlawfully) to boost revenue from council tax recovery?

 

It begs the question, are they sitting on the notices and court papers preventing a debtor to answer the summons to defend or counterclaim to secure the default,?

They wouldn't do that? Would they?

[Jemjubs]

No I am equally suspicious, it is strange that so many of these with Sherfarce collecting are default judgments, all with around £1k or more of fees at the first visit, have they got a profit share with the utility who gets a percentage of the fee collected as well as the principal debt. In a similar manner to how councils are after a share of the fees (unlawfully) to boost revenue from council tax recovery?

 

It begs the question, are they sitting on the notices and court papers preventing a debtor to answer the summons to defend or counterclaim to secure the default,?

They wouldn't do that? Would they?

 

Got to agree, it would appear that I have received all the mundane bills, final demands and statements but anything to do with court, legal action or the use of HCEO has never been received......... Has anyone else found this to be the case ???

 

Southern Water have said that they don't receive copies of court documents from Northampton and that is the reason that they didn't forward any documents or paperwork regarding the CCJ or Writ of Fi Fa.

 

I'm making interesting progress on things but I guess I should play my cards close to my chest at the moment, so watch this space !

Edited January 30, 2012 by Jemjubs

[brassnecked]

Got to agree, it would appear that I have received all the mundane bills, final demands and statements but anything to do with court, legal action or the use of HCEO has never been received......... Has anyone else found this to be the case ???

 

Southern Water have said that they don't receive copies of court documents from Northampton and that is the reason that they didn't forward any documents or paperwork regarding the CCJ or Writ of Fi Fa.

 

I'm making interesting progress on things but I guess I should play my cards close to my chest at the moment, so watch this space !

 

Have they passed the whole enforcement procedure from initial DCA type action to obtaining the CCJ to Sherfarce, who "may" for obvious reasons sit on paperwork until they have a debt of over £600?

 

Or am I just being cynical