Cap1 & CCA return

[iconoclash]

Hi C

 

Yes it is a requirement of form of agreement covered in the 1983/1553 as ammende by 1482 agreement ammendments and has nothing fo do with terms wether prescriced or otherwise.

It is only enough to make the calaim that the section 61 via section 60 (1)was in dispute so the best you could get was an enforceable by court order only and i don't think they would have a problem obtaining one.

As to the signing on premises the agreement is executed when both sinatures are on it, if you sign it and the creditor signws it a week later to my mind it is not executed untill that date..........

 

Hi - thanks for that - Ive also discovered that the agreement costs are wrong and would be overcharge to the tune of £1460 ! I'm guessing this also comes under S. 60 somewhere but have included this matter in my statement of case - thanks again

[iconoclash]

I dont know.... I havent seen it .

 

but if as you say it is a non cancellable agreement, then it doesnt need cancellation rights on it. though they must provide you with a copy agreement by post within 7 days I think.

 

do all the maths add up ?

 

try entering the details here....dont pay...just use the checker option

 

Financial Agreement Solutions

 

dave

 

Dave - what a helpful chap you are - this link of yours has saved my poor ole brain from exploding - trying to figure out what they'd done on my agreement !

[Peterbard]

Hi everyone, I need some further advice after having Moorcroft telephone me first thing this morning threatening me and swearing at me again....

I have a loan with EGG.

EGG still own it as there is no deed of assignment and moorcroft admitted as much.

Moorcroft had letter from me stating that all correspondance should be by letter. This was months ago!

EGG have not supplied CCA with T&C's and statement of account before the 12 days then 1 month. There time was up on 13th May 2007, last sunday!

Today Moorcroft start harrassing me by telephone again!

I told them about the CCA not being supplied and that they had in my opinion committed a criminal offence and were being reported to TS.

I was then told by this little twit, that he would send the some guys to collect their money. So I said feel free, but if they set foot on my property they would be arrested for tresspass.....

I ended up losing it and venting a load of proffanities at him, then put the phone down...sorry guys....I saw red!

The problem is that EGG have listed the loan with Experian and Equifax as settled!

Does this mean that I can tell them where to go??

I was thinking of sending EGG and moorcroft a copy of credit report page, along with request for the new CCA for the loan EGG listed as well...

EGG have told Experian and Equifax that I took a new loan out with them...

Which is really my old loan in disguise with incorrect loan amount, term and monthly repayments...

But they have no CCA for this so called new loan......

I requested a copy at the same time as the old CCA but they cannot supply it......As it never existed!

What should I write to moorcroft??

And what do I do about EGG??

Please help.....

Russ

Hi

 

i know what a pain Moorcroft can be but remember that the credit supplier is to an extent responsible for the conduct of the dca they use.as per

 

"Creditor responsibility for third parties

1.9 If consumer credit licence holders choose to do business or continue to do business with third parties engaged in questionable fitness behaviour, then theirown fitness will be called into question. Our aim is to ensure that creditors do not ignore the unfair practices of debt collectors, whether in-house or external, acting on their behalf. It is not for the OFT to specify in this guidance how choices about third party selection are made nor to advise on desired conduct between third parties. However, during any investigation in this respect, we would expect to see

that care had been taken in the selection process, complaints had been investigated and that firm action had been taken as appropriate action had been taken."

So report them to the orriginal creditor and outline in detatil their tactics at the same time cc the letter to the OFT and let them know you have done so you can quote the above extract from the OFT's own guidlines on debt recovery if you like.

 

Regards

Peter

[davefirewalker]

you could always try the protection from harassment act 1997

 

s1 Prohibition of harassment.

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

s2 Offence of harassment.

(1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

 

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

 

(3) In section 24(2) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted- "(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).".

 

s7 Interpretation of this group of sections.

 

(1) This section applies for the interpretation of sections 1 to 5.

(2) References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-

(a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in relation to that person, or

(b) in the case of conduct in relation to two or more persons (see section 1(1A)), conduct on at least one occasion in relation to each of those persons.

(3A) A persons conduct on any occasion shall be taken, if aided, abetted, counselled or procured by another

 

I tried this tack with them and it seems to have worked

 

Dave

[stebiz]

PM'd you a template matey, check your inbox

 

8)

 

You're a star. Thanks mate.

 

Stebiz

[un1boy]

Rather looks as though it gives us just what we are looking for?

 

Does it? lol.... **confused**

[Peterbard]

Does it? lol.... **confused**

 

The way to wisdom begins with the words "I don't understand"

 

Albert E

[un1boy]

The way to wisdom begins with the words "I don't understand"

 

Albert E

 

Ok!

 

Does it? lol - I don't understand....

[angry cat]

Hi Guys

 

An update on the complaint that I made to TS regarding Morgan Stanley's non compliance with my request under S78 CCA 1974 and their resultant Criminal Offence

 

As you are probably aware I reported MS to Consumer Direct in sept' 2006 who passed on my concern to my local TS, who in turn passed the complaint to Tower Hamlets TS as that is the TS local office in the MS HEAD OFFICE area.

 

My local TS has been in communication with MS regarding their investigation of the enforcement issue. The matter has been going back and forth now for almost 8 months!

 

God, I am now totally exasperated!!!

 

I have done everything by the book...MS cannot provide a true executed copy of the alleged agreement.

TS have already informed me that MS are reliant upon the 1983 regs (copies of cancellation & notices) regulation 3...meaning that because MS recently provided me with a frankenstein generic mailer MS consider that they have complied.

TS do not agree due to reg 7, but they will not prosecute.

the issue just goes around and around in circles, just like the proverbial oozlum bird.

 

TS have requested that MS write to me setting out their opinion, TS made that request 3 weeks ago! OOH apparently MS law dept., were writing to me but wahat has I received...Nothing, Nada, Nil.

 

Now AC is at the point of tearing her fur out and scratching MS's and or, TS's eyes out.

 

It's crazy, one is informed that a criminal offence has been committed, so one has to report it to Trading Standards and what do TS do, go through the process of investigation becaust they have to!

But at the end of the day, they will not prosecute, it's mad.

 

Where are my Human Rights? and yes HR are applicable to TS because they are a gov authority/body.

 

After 8 months of frustration, I am informed that I can take civil action against MS!

 

Lastly though, I have requested that TS put in writing to me their veiw.

 

I AM FED UP WITH ALL OF THIS.

 

AC

Blimey, this is like the FOS...they are all a waste of my time

[iconoclash]

Hiya - re the enforcement of agreements - glad to see Josie posted the Statutory Instrument 1553/1983, had been looking for that for ages !

 

Meantime - any chance of posting up regulations 1980/51 Parts 1 and 2, for readership - had these handed to me today in court by a solicitor as part of their defence. (Total Charge for Credit). thanks

[ladybird17]

umm I've got confused Campari, (and that's after just one glass) - why do you want them posted if you've got them?

[iconoclash]

umm I've got confused Campari, (and that's after just one glass) - why do you want them posted if you've got them?

 

Well - not for me - for others to see,

and couldnt get the paper to fit into the PC

 

my scanners bust:mad:

[ladybird17]

Oh! sorry, I'm with you now (doh)

[Josie8]

Hiya - re the enforcement of agreements - glad to see Josie posted the Statutory Instrument 1553/1983, had been looking for that for ages !

 

Meantime - any chance of posting up regulations 1980/51 Parts 1 and 2, for readership - had these handed to me today in court by a solicitor as part of their defence. (Total Charge for Credit). thanks

 

sure but can you be more specific please

[rippedoffagain]

Hi all

 

Just got off the phone from the collections dept of my favourite CCP

 

Classic

 

CCP You are in arrears of £xxx (large lump) can you pay that today?

 

Me No.

 

CCP Can you pay some of it?

 

Me No.

 

CCP Could you tell my why not?

 

Me Because you are in default of my CCA request

 

CCP Long pause Erm excuse me, I will put you on hold while I speak to a colleague. Long pause Could you tell me how far back you want the notes.

 

Me Pardon?

 

CCP Could you tell me how far back you want the notes.

 

Me I think you misunderstand, you have not complied with my CCA request.

 

CCP Long pause Erm excuse me, I will put you on hold while I speak to a colleague. Long pause. OK right I am sending this account to a different department, they will receive it tomorrow, so they have twelve days to send you the information.

 

 

 

 

 

Arrived in the post this morning

 

We are sorry to hear about your complaint..................We have forty days to investigate........

 

[joneshousehold]

On the Trading Standards issue, I know of someone who has spoken to a senior officer at the TS who said that they are reluctant to prosecute over criminal defaults because of the time and cost involved. However they do take issue with a creditor taking enforcement action if the creditor fails to comply with the S77-79 request. What we need to do I think is rather than just solely complain about the non-compliance angle, we need to press home the continuing enforcement action by the creditor when they are in default as this is also a breach of the OFT guidelines.

This does fit with my own experience. I know that the guidelines are the OFT's but my local TS are acting on the breaches of the OFT guidelines even though they are reluctant to take action on the criminal default. I know it isn't right but from their point of view if they are inadequately resourced the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Has anyone else any more experience of TS. Would it be worth starting up a new thread. Give me some idea and I will get a thread started if we have some information worth putting together.

[TideTurner]

Joneshousehold,

 

Two years ago, I had a tel conversation with the FOS. They told me that nobody was "overlooking the banks".

 

TS are playing catch up, as are the ICO and the FOS. The FSA have kidded everybody for years, and are funded by the banks as previously stated.

 

The Law Society are keeping their distance and the Council of Mortgage Lenders are fighting for the other side.

 

My MEP doesn't know if he wants a sh!t or a haircut.

 

However, a number of organisations have started to pay attention recently, and these previously under utilised facilities should now be used to the full.

 

Tide

[ripoffstopper]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

[Mike220359]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

 

Unfortunatly they are absolutley right, and the reason is they know that the original agrrements dont complay with CCA and as in my case arent signed.

 

As regards your SAR, if you didnt ask for a copy of the agrrement then they will not supply it, it may be worth resubmitting.

 

MIke

[andrew1]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

 

 

I don't know the exact answer to your question, suffice to say that if they are saying they no longer have a contractual arrangement with you they might like to answer why they are continuing to process your data for 6yrs from conclusion of that agreement by providing it to the Credit Reference Agencies every month as they do.

 

Under a DPA SAR request they should I believe, supply you with ALL the data they have and that should include a copy of the agreement.

 

I would imagine that as the credit agreement has now been satisfied, under a cca request they are probably correct, but not the DPA.

 

 

Edit: Sorry, Mike and I must have been at the keyboards at the same time!

[pford]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

 

they may be right

 

3) Duty to provide information at the request of a customer after an agreement is ended

A customer may serve notice on a trader requesting written confirmation that he has discharged his indebtedness under a credit or hire agreement and that the agreement has ceased to operate. The trader must, within 12 working days of receiving such a notice, either provide the confirmation or serve a counter-notice disputing the claim. When disputing the claim the trader must give details of why he thinks it is wrong. There is no obligation on the trader to provide such a confirmation more than once.

 

If a trader fails to comply with the customer’s request within one month from the end of the 12 days he commits an offence.

[ripoffstopper]

THanks Mike220359, andrew1 & pford for your thoughts. I will submit another DPA request and stipulate that an executed copy of the cc agreement is included in the information they send. Cheers ROS

[ripoffstopper]

I know that its "off topic" BUT is there a template to send to banks & CCs requesting that they desist from passing our info to CRAs & DCAs?

Cheers ROS

[Perseus]

Hi ROS

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html

Don't forget to mark the letter 'ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE'

This is for a creditor/DCA to stop processing info/disclosure.

Pers

[ripoffstopper]

Thanks Pers, I will amend/adapt this template for my particular needs. Cheers ROS