update: BG accepted that they had no bills or evidence of this alleged debt, refunded the amounts taken back to the meter and offered about £70 as I recall goodwill gesture payment. I rejected on principle so that the Ombudsman would still investigate the matter. They found exactly the same, and I accepted the resolution at that stage. I spent a lot of time trying to find old accounts to prove my genuine staunch denial of those alleged debts but the way the Ombudsman wrote up the case, rather implied that a debt existed which I am still displeased about. Ho HUm - life is too short to get into a wrangle over that and I am pleased however that the matter has finally been sorted out as I really hope it assists others, who are in the same position. As I have said, if anyone is alleging a debt it must be proven; you cannot go into a court of law on such spurious grounds so why should BG be allowed to shortcut the systems that are there for the protection of the people.

Hi and thanks for the info. Update: today received the SAR info - great you might think. Just a waste of paper: screen prints, NO bills, NO data sheets from the meters, just copy letters of my complaints and their "we need more time" letters. But wait, there is a disc. For disc you have to install Nero Secure Disk Viewer - use the password sent in separate letter - only to find recordings of misc phone calls by me over last couple of years. Doesn't give any information to me whatsoever regarding this alleged debt. Hopeless. Why it took so long to produce a package of worthless information I don't know. Observations I did make was a sudden change from being Miss to Mrs on the screen prints, (not applicable) and something in the "contact owner" heading/column, which may be a salesperson as I am not Hannah Leach, and I did not request a Hitachi product financed through BM financial in 2010. (BG tabs for that page: Edit, Delete, or CLONE.)

try this - let me know if it doesn't work please https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/41921/20121214-product-requirements-smart-metering-systems.pdf

hi try these - the actual meter outside the house, which has no numbers on it, and the smart meter debt owing screen (early Sept), which I now see shows the repayment rate on it. (One question answered). I found the S/N in the menus for the smart meter screen but cannot know if this relates to the meter outside, being blank. There is a Pan I.D. screen with a number, then next row it says: Parent: 0000. I have been trying to research more and found this document, front title cover only attached as it is 66 pages. Within it talks about uploading debt remotely which appears to be allowed, although it does not refer to dates, it says "at anytime" - but I would have thought that no contract can override an existing law e.g. statute of limitations. People should be aware that providers do have the right to upload debt remotely, no mention of whether it has to be proven debt? Horrendous. I actually do not know the dates just approximately but as BG say they record their calls, they can include that in their data compliance. One was about two weeks ago and the other was over a month ago. On both occasions they were reading out information which I asked them to send to me since they clearly had it in front of them. I don't know why they won't send it. I have so much stress in my life already with other things going on that I haven't been able to appply my full attention to this matter. I would have to pay £25 to make the claim by the look of it - if done online. I will seriously consider this but cannot budget in that fee for about a week. The statutory breach being the failure to comply with the SAR? something else I noted is that none of my statements of usage mention a debt, none of the data sheets you can download for top ups mention a debt, even after they did this. I cannot access the accounts on their website now and the meter itself appears to have no serial number. Pics attached. (I suppose all that is irrelevant, I need to take more action as you say) British_Gas_account.pdf Pages from 20121214-product-requirements-smart-metering-systemspdf.pdf pix.pdf

Hi - I have two phone conversations now with this Company and I am not happy doing things on the phone as there is no proper record. They have moved the goalposts. I notice they have changed the dates they first said it was from by one year.... in an email to me. Cannot rely on any random email as evidence, that is imply not good enough for a court. I really need the data and I am concerned that it will be 'created'. I tust the ICO should be able to get this out of them and then I can move on it. If I move to court immediately to have the debt removed, unless shown as legitimate, and redress made for time wasted?

hi - yes but what to do - I am so busy trying to run round different computers as I work from home and I don't have time to do the paperwork needed. I am thinking I should go to court as BG are happy for me to wait forever and, no offence to them, but the Ombudsman take such a long time, I don't think it is fair for me to do the suffering and have the costs involved etiher. I am a lone parent and on a register for needs in terms of health so this is the last thing I need right now.

Hi brassnecked, if only, no I am afraid that they have not removed it. It is my understanding that is being collected at £3.00, weekly, daily: no idea. It doesn't seem possible to check that information on the screen of the 'smart' meter. I also had an email from British Gas recently saying that they had reduced the amount: oh so nice of them, thinking this will appease me I suppose. I don't want a reduction of something that I don't owe. I have seen some articles etc about people struggling over previous occupiers debts etc and it is astonishing that this is still such a mess - can walk on the moon but cannot bill people properly.

Hi - to answer points raised, and thanks to all responding - I elected to have the smart meter, on the phone, no paperwork, it runs both gas and electric. The payg has been in place for over ten years since my ex left and I have kept with it so I don't get any bills. I did a SAR almost straight away frorm 8th Sept forward, no response and when chased they said they didn't have it, I copied the request to them again, then they said it wasn't valid without I.D., how funny, no I.D. needed when sending the debt to the smart meter! I complied and sent I.D. after that they ran out time after further delays. Just written again asking for another 21 days. If, and it's a big if, I owe this money, which I have no recollection of at all, I want to see the facts and figures but still can't get these out of them. BG called me and I recall that person saying that it was their mistake, that they gave me a credit instead of a debit?? I know nothing about a credit either. And, if this relates to an "old credit account" - let me see the bills that prove that there was this debt. Otherwsie they are saying that I have been in ignorance all these years and that is my fault, that can't be right. So annoying and frustrating - I could scream.

Hi, yes I did that fairly quiclkly, but was then delayed as they said it wasn't valid without I.D. from me, which I then supplied, then they said they needed another 21 days, and today they said again that they need another 21 days due to technical diffficulties - huh. It is going up to the Ombudsman and the I.C.O. but it is a very worrying thing.

Hi - I have a smart meter through British Gas. I am a pay-as-you-go customer and have no debts on any of my utilities. Recently British Gas randomly accessed my smart meter and electronically/wirelessly loaded up a debt of nearly one thousand pounds to my meter. I had no notice of this happening and only knew about it because my 'smart' meter is in my sitting room and I saw it go off and on a few times. I checked the screens and found that a huge debit sum was suddenly showing on my account with a weekly amount to be taken towards it, or taken every time I top-up. Astonished I started making calls and sending emails - this was 3 months ago. Since then I have been told various things including "we found an old debt on one of your credit accounts from seven years ago (in 2012) and we are allowed to do this". I have no knowledge of having this debt and have asked for the evidence, the serial numbers of the meter it relates to, the data sheets from that meter and the old accounts issued by British Gas - to date - nothing. Incredible as this sounds I have to wonder who else is struggling with a simialr scenario and what rules exist here - anyone who does have a genuine debt would surely be advised and if pursued further, expect the usual right of defence through the courts and the regulatory bodies and reference to the limitations act. Therefore, British Gas not only deny me those rihgts, but prevent me from moving my account because of said erroneous debt. Be warned before you allow a Company to control your account in this way - I now have a very different view of what a SMART METER is.

I too am trying to track down these two companies and have read a court case in 2013 where the judge gave the liquidators permission to dispose of all the data for SPPL. Neutral Citation Number: [2013] EWHC 2485 (Ch). Ascenden responses merely provide the address of the liquidators to customers wanting SPPL info etc, despite the court letting them junk their files. What hope is there with this going on. It seems the courts think that individuals are only fishing either directly or through claims business' yet some of us have very real complaints about serious administration errors on their contracts, mis-selling et al. SPPL were actively selling mortgages over the telephone to customers with small secured loans, converting them into first charge mortgages, so selling between themselves.

Hi - I am in a similar position so posting in this thread, just let me know if it has to be moved - ta. My repo order is six years old also, arrears were capitalised but I fell into small arrears last year and a suspended eviction order was granted. I am curious now as to what the position is regarding the old rep order and whether the lender will require a new application to enforce in its own right, yet, the eviction order (suspended) seems to be reliant upon the repossession order. Hope that is making sense. Therefore any applications for warrant should fail, provided the homeowner has the information and with the option for lenders to move directly to court there is an issue in this procedure for homeowners. ?

I have all the data and think I need a good solicitor now as I have tried everything else already and I know I'm right about the wrong doing on their part, they cannot be allowed to simply print money like this, where this is no term or condition that states that legal fees can attract interest - and since those were the basis of their additions to the mortgage balance I would love to see them show a judge what they are relying on here. Onwards me thinks..

hi - I am really stuck with this, I had legal costs added to my mortgage (past repo attempt) but they were above what the court allowed, eventually I got them back by going to court but they remain on my balance attracting interest. The mortgage company say I should have given them the money (about £1,500) but it was not actual money, it was charges they added. I asked the legal firm the mortgage company had used to take me into court originally, to show that the mortgage company had actually paid out the amount they had not - the legal firm had charged the right amount but the mortgage company elevated the costs, as they do. I am still stuck wondering what I can do about the additional £12-15k they will have made out of me for interest on that 'notional money'. Any ideas as the FOS don't seem to understand. There is no agreement that covers this and they are now saying it forms a new loan but I cannot understand how when they caused all the problems by trying to adding fees unlawfully. thanks in advance.

Hi - I am not sure where I stand in the matter of my late mother's estate. In her Will it is stated that jewellery is to be distributed to the family, however it is a year later and I have heard nothing further from my sister who is acting as executor. The last I heard was that some of the family had decided to give back items to those who had given them including more distant relatives rather than just the beneficiaries of the Will. In this case several daughters. I am at a loss as to what to say or do with this situation. Any advice most welcome. thanks

I don't recall the details sufficiently - think I had a small loan that I paid off then later on another, and had a larger one later that was repaid early when I re-mortgaged etc., I had a joint loan on my joint account too, I do remember that, so I'm gonna write to the branch and try for the rest of the details and have another look in my attic. Looks like it's gonna be a long haul

hello again - thanks for reading this. This is HSBC, who have said in their letter from Sheffield office that "this office acts as a co-ordinator to collate any personal data held... ....we are unable to answer any questions relating to the operation on your accounts, please refer to your local branch" I am thinking I need to make a list of the accounts, loans and PPI's, which is of course what I wanted to see in this SAR data, it is not at all clear from their reams and reams of printouts. It appears that the calculations for the PPI redress relate to one loan only and as I do not have the CCA's for the loans, nor loan statements I am struggling. HSBC are saying they are not required to keep these docs for that long. Should I write to the branch?

hi and many thanks for that - I have read that thread and it has also now alerted me to the fact that the bank really did a number on me. refused to do anything about the extra charges added to my account whilst disputing the ppi refund made me take the refund in the form of payments to other creditors only paid the lump sum ppi without interest, although they have sent me a fancy sheet of calculations about early repayment penalties, total premiums paid separately to loan(?) loss plus 8%. The loan started in 2002 and there is another document stating that protection expired in 02/07, the redress calculations state that 26 premiums are refunded. This is too confusing as even the cost of the insurance doesn't match. Maybe it is another ppi I am not aware of I had 4 or 5 loans over several years.? I will try to figure it out and come back. It seems I can show a high level of unfair treatment.

"Complaining about charges is a waste of time, the court case several years ago ruled they were not unlawful and fos will not consider complaints about the matter. Unless you're in serious financial hardship and even then it would only be out of pure goodwill." Hi - have you seen this case?? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763083/Victory-bank-charges-open-payout-floodgates-Court-backs-customer-hefty-overdraft-fees.html I am hoping this will help me.

5 -> if there were any charges applied to the account which were triggered purely as a result of the above PPI then they should be refunded too along with any contractual interest charged on them and the 8% calculation as mentioned above. Hi - I am interested in this bit here about charges during PPI claim as I had a lengthy dispute with my bank on the same issue but they refused to refund costs that I incurred whilst they prevaricated, in the end they made a goodwill gesture offer of £100 but I rejected that. I am thinking I should raise this with them again as I wasn't really sure how to challenge it further. Seems there is a good reason why I shouldn't just accept that situation. I was in financial hardship for a few years and sent my DWP letters to the bank but they continued to refuse settlements for over a year using the test cases as their reason for delaying, as I recall. I also note that they have not provided me with any loan statements or full data on my 3 accounts, latest letter says that I have to ask my branch for any data relating to the accounts themselves and the rest has come from head office??

Hi - I am stuck trying to work out my former PPI redress. I have recently received my old paperwork (from a SAR) and I note calculations provided for PPI against a bank loan. This was a single lump sum added to the loan. However, the bank appear to have calculated premiums etc, rebates and early settlement sums and come up with a figure that is exactly the same as the lump sum added at the start. I am wondering how that can be correct if I paid interest on the PPI with the loan and both ran their full term. The bank had previously debated at length as to whether they would even accept the claim but did eventually make redress in 2008, now I am re-visiting this matter and checking all accounts and other loans with the bank but in the meantime, am I right in thinking there is something wrong with the redress calcs? thanks

Hi - I can't find an answer on this question so thought I'd post it up here - hope to shed some light on this. If a sub-prime lender keeps applying for eviction where they have a suspended repossession order, and they do this immediately the monthly payment is missed or late - doesn't that mean that they are applying ahead of the default period of one month, since all mortgage payments are made in advance.? I thought you couldn't take anyone to court for future charges and the mortgage payment can't be listed as missed until the end of the month has elapsed. Secondly, if a lender/servicer changes it charging/accounting period to mid-month from end of month, isn't that then a change to a core term that is not allowed? I'm thinking that if this is allowed to go through, then the lender/servicer is then using that to go back into court sooner and avoids the protocols etc. Hope this isn't too confusing but I cant figure out how these lenders keep getting into court within the same month that a payment is due (in advance). Any ideas/thoughts welcome, thanks.

Hi - starting point for me is finding out which charges were made and when and for what reason and then tallying those against 'other columns' to identify this process of theirs - also seem to recall that making arrears charges were banned in certain circumstances, back in 2009. All charges have attracted interest, some once, some twice of course..... "* The FSA last week included a ban on arrears charges when a borrower is already repaying, and ensuring firms do not profit from people in arrears among its reforms of the mortgage market." taken from The Guardian, 29 Oct 2009.

Further information found that the FOS should be adhering to: © Protecting borrowers when mortgages are sold on 22. The CML supports the Treasury’s proposal and definition of “managing” a regulated mortgage contract. We believe that the purchase of mortgage books by unregulated entities does have the potential to cause detriment to their borrowers, which requires a regulatory intervention and extension of FSA scope. 23. However, it should only apply where those purchasers of mortgage assets can have a material impact on the consumer through day-to-day decisions on the interest rate, other charges, service levels and arrears and possession management. Alternatively, where purchasers have waived or delegated to their servicer or administrator the power to exercise these rights they should not be subject to regulation where the servicer is regulated for these purposes instead. 24. The principle that only one firm should be regulated as “manager” is paramount. 25. Moreover, legal advice should be sought to seek reassurance that the regulatory change to the statutory definition does not adversely impact on existing funding structures that require mortgages to be sold to a separate legal entity such as a special purpose vehicle (SPV) in the case of securitisation and limited liability partnership (LLP) in the case of covered bond transactions.

Hi, a new one on me:.. . a company is 'running' my regulated mortgage; they write me letters, threaten me, harass me, take me into court in their own name, add their name to my mortgage deed, BUT, remain Unregulated themselves having purchased my mortgage. The position of the FCA is that they do NOT need to be regulated as they are working for another party who IS regulated. Hmmm - does that sound OK?? seems not it also appears that there are NO regulations about this in the UK where there are regs in the USA. Does anyone have any thoughts around this whether I should simply ignore this outfit and only deal with the actual servicing company hiding behind them because the more I deal with them the more I see that there is nowhere to go with any dispute I have with them. thanks