Cap1 & CCA return

[BigBadCAGBagger]

The signature box states:

 

'This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Sign only if you wish to be legally bound by its terms'.

 

I notice on other 'application' type agreements it usually contains the line 'I have read the terms and conditions overleaf'

 

If it contains this inside the signature box then the agreement falls foul of s61 by virtue of SI 1553. You can't have this information inside the box. In most agreements it will have a line something like 'by signing this agreement I confirm I have read and understood the terms and conditions overleaf'. If anyone has an agreement with erroneous text inside the signature box, it is improperly executed, and if it is an application form come agreement, it may well not be an agreement at all.

[Slartibartfast]

The only order required for pre 2006 is that the financial particulars and statements of protection must be "show together as a whole" and not interspersed with any other information (with the exception of cross references to the terms)

This is stated within SI 1553 Reg 2(4)

 

What does 'Financial Particulars' refer to though?

Does it mean personal information about other cards held, income and the like or is this a reference to the precribed terms?

 

Not intending to be dense here!

[ncf355]

Hi

 

refers to the prescribed terms

[B3rty]

ncf355 wrote

 

the layout you quote from the OFT pdf relates to post 2006 docs - if you look at the para's referred to they arent in SI 1553

 

The only order required for pre 2006 is that the financial particulars and statements of protection must be "show together as a whole" and not interspersed with any other information (with the exception of cross references to the terms)

 

This is stated within SI 1553 Reg 2(4)

 

This is from SI 1553> My understanding is they have to be set out in the order stated.....the element are contained in the schedules at the end of SI1553....this is pre 2006.....correct me if I am wrong as I am still learning but its how I read it..

 

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and

separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain,

shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below--

(a) the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

(b) the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

[© under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to

8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]

(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5,

9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;

(e) under the heading "Key Information"--

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;

and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a

whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the

agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross

references to the terms of the agreement.

[ian1969uk]

Ian, I'm a bit confused by this - how does this mean the the prescribed terms cannot be in the t&c's and what is it that says the t&c's are the document?

 

It is simply saying that the prescribed terms MUST be in the signature document. They CANNOT be only in the terms and conditions, even if those terms and conditions are referred to in the agreement.

[ncf355]

B3rty,

 

what page of SI1553 is that on?

 

For the life of me I cant find it!

[pt2537]

B3rty,

 

what page of SI1553 is that on?

 

For the life of me I cant find it!

 

[2 Form and content of regulated consumer credit agreements]

 

[(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (9) below, documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements (other than

modifying agreements) shall contain the information set out in Column 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations in so far as it

relates to the type of agreement referred to in Column 1.

 

(2) Where any information about financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 9 to 11 of Schedule 1 to these

Regulations cannot be exactly ascertained by the creditor, estimated information based on the assumptions referred to in

paragraph 10 of that Schedule, where applicable, and otherwise such assumptions as the creditor may reasonably make in

all the circumstances of the case and a statement of the assumptions made shall be included in documents embodying

regulated consumer credit agreements.

 

(3) Subject to paragraph (9) below, documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements, other than

agreements of the description specified in the Schedule to the Consumer Credit (Notices of Cancellation Rights)

(Exemptions) Regulations 1983 in relation to which there are no charges forming part of the total charge for credit (in this

regulation referred to as "exempted agreements"), shall contain statements of the protection and remedies available to

debtors under the Act, in the Form numbered in Column 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 2 to these Regulations and set out in

Column 3, in so far as they relate to the type of agreement referred to in Column 2.

 

(4) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (9) below, the information, statements of the protection and remedies, signature and

separate boxes which this regulation requires documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements to contain,

shall be set out in the order given by paragraphs (a) to (f) below under, where applicable, the headings specified below--

(a) the nature of the agreement as set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

(b) the parties to the agreement as set out in paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;

[© under the heading "Key Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 6 to

8B, 11 to 14 and 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations;]

(d) under the heading "Other Financial Information", the financial and related particulars set out in paragraphs 3 to 5,

9, 10, 14A and 18 to 19A of Schedule 1 to these regulations;

(e) under the heading "Key Information"--

(i) the information set out in paragraphs 20 to 24 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations; and

(ii) the statements of protection and remedies set out in Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

(f) the signature box and, where applicable, the separate box required by paragraph (7)(b) below;

and such information, statements of protection and remedies, signature and separate boxes shall be shown together as a

whole and shall not be preceded by any information apart from trade names, logos or the reference number of the

agreement or interspersed with any other information or wording apart from subtotals of total amounts and cross

references to the terms of the agreement.

 

(5) In the case of documents embodying restricted-use debtor-creditor-supplier agreements for fixed-sum credit to

finance a transaction comprising the acquisition of goods, services, land or other things specified in the agreement or

identified and agreed on at the time the agreement is made and relating to more than one description of goods, services,

land or other things, the cash prices, and the total cash price, referred to in paragraph 4 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations

may be shown in a schedule to such document together with each description of the goods, services, land or other things,

provided that the total cash price and a reference to the schedule to such document are shown together with the

information required by paragraph (4)(d) above.

 

(6) The APR referred to in paragraphs 15 to 17 of Schedule 1 to these Regulations shall in documents embodying

regulated consumer credit agreements, other than exempted agreements--

(a) be denoted as "APR" or "annual percentage rate" or "annual percentage rate of the total charge for credit; and

(b) where it is subject to change, be accompanied by the word "variable".

 

(7) Documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements other than exempted agreements shall, subject to

paragraph (9) below, contain a signature box in the Form numbered in Column 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 5 to these

Regulations and set out in Column 3 in so far as it relates to the type of agreement referred to in Column 2 and shall--

(a) if--

(i) the documents embody a principal agreement and subsidiary agreement to which paragraph (9) below applies;

or

(ii) at the time of entering into the agreement the debtor is also purchasing an optional contract of insurance

which will be financed by credit advanced under that agreement,

contain a form of consent in the Form set out in Part III of Schedule 5 immediately below the signature box required by

this paragraph; and

(b) if the agreement is one to which section 58(1) of the Act applies, is a cancellable agreement or is an agreement

under which a person takes any article in pawn and under which the pawn-receipt is not separate from the document

embodying the agreement, contain a separate box immediately above, below or adjacent to the signature box in which

shall be included the appropriate statements specified in Forms 1 and 4 to 6 of Part 1, and in Part II, of Schedule 2.

 

(8) Paragraph (9) applies to documents embodying a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(a) of

the Act or a debtor-creditor agreement (in this paragraph and paragraph (9) in either case referred to as "the principal

agreement") and also embodying, or containing the option of, a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section

12(b) of the Act (in this paragraph and paragraph (9) referred to as "the subsidiary agreement") where the subsidiary

agreement is to finance a premium under one or more of--

(a) a contract of insurance to provide a sum payable in the event of the death of a debtor or a debtor suffering one or

more of the following:--

(i) accident;

(ii) sickness; and

(iii) unemployment,

at any time before the credit under the principal agreement and the subsidiary agreement has been repaid, where the

sum payable does not exceed the amount sufficient to defray the sums payable to the creditor in respect of that credit

and of the total charge for credit and where the policy monies payable under the contract of insurance are to be used for

a repayment under the principal agreement and the subsidiary agreement;

(b) a contract of shortfall insurance; and

© a contract of insurance in so far as it relates to the guarantee of goods.

 

(9) Documents to which this paragraph applies may contain instead of the headings specified in paragraph 1 of

Schedules 1 or 8 to these Regulations, statements of protection and remedies available to debtors under the Act and

signature boxes that would otherwise apply--

(a) a heading and signature box in so far as they relate to the principal agreement;

(b) a statement in Form 14 of Part I of Schedule 2 to these Regulations; and

© other statements (other than in Form 16 of Part I of Schedule 2) of the protection and remedies available to

debtors under the Act in so far as they relate to the principal agreement.

 

(10) Documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements shall embody any security provided in relation to

the regulated agreement by the debtor.]

 

 

NOTES

 

Amendment

 

Substituted by SI 2004/1482, regs 2, 4 (as amended by SI 2004/2619, reg 2(1), (2)).

Date in force: 31 May 2005: see SI 2004/1482, reg 1; for transitional provisions see reg 18 thereof.

UK Parliament SIs 1980-1989/1983/1551-1600/Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553)/3 Form

and content of regulated consumer hire agreements

 

..........

[trevor33]

Been advised to post my agreement on this thread for some advice. It has taken 10 months for this to be sent to me. Do I now have to start paying them. Is the agreement enforcable.

 

[noomill060]

They've added the "ASU" insurance and interest on it to the total owing.

 

Woops!

 

Did you ask for this insurance and and was it explained to you properly?

[car2403]

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but could you post the agreement up with the financial figures on trevor? That way we can check to see if the calculations are correct and within tolerances?

[lickthewallfatboy]

this is my wife's Natwest Visa CCA.....I think this won't stand up,and a couple of members concur....

 

[pt2537]

i cant read it to be honest

 

so i cant see if there are any of the prescribed terms in there

[lickthewallfatboy]

sorry it's a bit hard to read-these are the details on the sheet-

 

wife's name,address,home phone no,date moved into address current at that time,date of birth and mother's maiden name.

 

then,name of Bank with acc no and sort code,date account opened and a figure for all other monthly commitments,and ticks beside other "credit cards held"

 

next,a box with her employment details,income,along with the same for me at the time.

 

next-card protection-ticked

 

next-airmiles registration box(!)

 

finally-additional cardholder details

[pt2537]

well, thats about as enforceable as a IOU, written on a post it note, found by a passing vagrant:D

 

no prescribed terms,and i would argue that it also falls foul of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

in particular reg 2 which states

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

[lickthewallfatboy]

that's what I wanted to hear!!

 

I think from reading other threads about Natwest that they can be a bit on the stubborn side.....it's probably going to be a bit of a fight,isn't it?

[trevor33]

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but could you post the agreement up with the financial figures on trevor? That way we can check to see if the calculations are correct and within tolerances?

 

I CCa'd HFC (Weightmans) last May for a copy of this agreement and I only received it last week, can they still enforce it after 10 months, and it is not signed by HFC has it been properly executed?

Uploaded copy with financial figures. T33

 

[carteroo]

hi can anyone help,i sent off for a cca request on the 21st jan,i received a second letter today

further to our letter dated 23rd jan 2008 regarding your account,i can confirm and advise the following:-

 

1.we are following up your request for a copy of the original agreement with our client citifinancial europe.when this becomes available we will forward you a copy.

 

2.your account is on hold and all further action has been suspended in anticipation of receiving the documents required.

 

should you require anything further at this point please contact me accordingly.i will update you on developments in 21day if there are no developments beforehand.

 

can someone tell me what to do now please????

[un1boy]

hi can anyone help,i sent off for a cca request on the 21st jan,i received a second letter today

further to our letter dated 23rd jan 2008 regarding your account,i can confirm and advise the following:-

 

1.we are following up your request for a copy of the original agreement with our client citifinancial europe.when this becomes available we will forward you a copy.

 

2.your account is on hold and all further action has been suspended in anticipation of receiving the documents required.

 

should you require anything further at this point please contact me accordingly.i will update you on developments in 21day if there are no developments beforehand.

 

can someone tell me what to do now please????

 

Wait until you have been sent the docs!

[mfpa]

Bank Of Scotland have issued a county court claim against me. I need help with my defence.

 

Their POCs:-

 

The Claimant's claim is for 10***.** presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto.

By an agreement dated **/**/1998 the Defendant has an account number **************** with the claimant. The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the Claimant under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The balance due as at 7/2/2008 on said account is 10***.**.

 

 

I have still not received any document at all in response to my CCA request they signed for on 23rd May 2007.

 

I cannot be sure whether I've received any default notice.

 

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

My thread is mfpa vs Halifax

[trevor33]

I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but could you post the agreement up with the financial figures on trevor? That way we can check to see if the calculations are correct and within tolerances?

 

Hi car2403. Have posted the agreement as requested. Could you please check if over for me to see if it complies. T33

[B3rty]

mpfa

Don't worry because they will need to produce an agreement when it gets to your local county court stage so acknowledge the claim unsing MCOL, this gives you 28 days to submit your defence which will be no default notice , no agreement e.t.c, it will then be transfered to your county court and they will have to produce these to get a hearing.....you need to start your own thread and get help to prepare your defence as the first stage.

[mfpa]

mpfa

.....you need to start your own thread and get help to prepare your defence as the first stage.

 

Thanks, B3rty.

FWIW, my thread is mfpa vs Halifax

[loz]

I think I mentioned this a while back, but didn't get round to posting my agreement *slaps head*

Wondered if anybody could spare a few minutes to look at what I got from HSBC when I did a CCA request:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/131611-hsbc-credit-card.html

 

Thanks,

Loz

[paulwlton]

Just a quick point. Placing adverse data on credit files gives a claim for substantial damages not the £1000 that has been suggested by some.

 

Paul

[un1boy]

Just a quick point. Placing adverse data on credit files gives a claim for substantial damages not the £1000 that has been suggested by some.

 

Paul

 

Paul, this it the first time I've heard about this - can you give me more info? By PM is necessary. I have a claim in at the moment regarding no CCA and this could be useful for me.