Paul v Accord

[paulpb123]

read previous not precious. You wouldn't believe that I'm an English lecturer lol. Watch out students everywhere!

[zootscoot]

I think precious is actually quite appropriate! lol

 

The mortgage companies are dropping like flies. Its only a matter of time for you now!

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[paulpb123]

The silence from Accord is deafening. I hope that their solicitor enjoyed Zoot's letter! They probably think if they ignore me I might just go away. Tic, toc, tic, toc.

[paddym]

Paul i think they are all ignoring us ! But i have news for them (especially if theyre reading THIS ) WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE EXCEPT COURT you can run but you cant hide we have god the will the knowledge and the desire to succeed bring it on ! tick tock tick tock tick tock !

[paulpb123]

Hi Paddy, I think we are on a similar timescale. I'm doing my MCOL on Monday. I hope the mortgage companies are reading this and they will be aware that we've had at least 4 successful ERC claims so far on this site. Can't wait to get on with this. The interest and court costs will take my claim to about £10,500. I hope they keep using the same solicitor!

[paulpb123]

Got a letter from Accord's solicitor this morning. Here it is:

 

Dear Paulpb123,

Thank you for your letter dated 6th October 2006.

I do not agree that Accord Mortgages position is based on inaccuracies as you state for the following reasons:

 

We maintain that ERCs are not imposed because of a breach of contract, they are payable because they are a term of the mortgage contract. We do not believe that there has been a breach of contract on your part, you have simply redeemed your mortgage as you are entitled to do so under the terms of your mortgage contract subject to payment of the early repayment charge. In addition to this, I confirm that your mortgage was in fact for a term of 25 years as is the case with most mortgages. [i never argued to the contrary] I enclose a copy of your offer with the term highlighted. Early repayment charges are only applied during the first 5 years of your mortgage contract as this is the period during which a special rate is offered however this does not affect the mortgage term. [again, I never suggested otherwise]

 

The OFT statement dated 5th April 2006 to which you refer in your previous letter does not contain the extract that you have set out and is indeed restricted to default charges on credit card accounts, not to lending such as this. I wonder whether we may in fact be referring to two different statements made by the OFT. In any event I can confirm that Accord Mortgages' position remains the same - a breach of contract has not occured and so the early repayment charges cannot be classed as a penalty.

 

I am sorry that you consider that, in our referal to the case of Campbell Discount Company Limited, we are seeking to mislead you. That is most certainly not the case. The point that we are making is that the ERC is not a penalty because it is not a payment required as a result of a breach of some duty that you may owe to Accord Mortgages. You did not "break" the contract with Accord when you repaid the mortgage, you simply repaid the mortgage in accordance with the terms which were set out in the offer. That point was the crux of the decision at the Court of Appeal.

 

It is correct that in the House of Lords the CA's decision was reversed - but only on the basis that the hirer in that case had actually committed a breach. Since there was patently no breach in this case and since the House of Lords did express views supporting the Court of appeals decision on the basis of a legitimate payment not being a penalty where there is no breach, then we believe that our interpretation remains correct.

 

We have already provided you with a breakdown of costs as you requested, which clearly demonstrate that the ERCs applicable to your mortgage are a genuine and reasonable pre-estimate of loss. You have also been given an explanation of how underlying hedging is put in place.

 

In light of this, Accord's position remains the same ans as already indicated I cannot advise Accord to refund any of these ERCs you have paid. If you still feel dissatisfied you may refer you complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service within 6 months of the date of this letter. If, however you wish to issue proceedings, these should be served upon Legal Group at the address below. [no address given!]

 

This sounds like a load of old rubbish to me. They are very keen to keep hammering on about an ERC not being a breach of contract and that's about it. Also, in the Campbell Discount case, is the solicitor saying there was a breach or not. Sounds like the solicitor is a little confused. Any thoughts on this anyone? Zoot?

[paulpb123]

Oh, and they certainly did not provide a breakdown of their costs!

[zootscoot]

Campbell Discount v Bridge concerned an HP agreement on a car which was ended early by the purchaser. The HP agreement contained a term like an ERC that if the purchaser terminated the agreement, early an excessive fee would be payable. Purchaser ended early and argued the fee was a penalty. The Court of Appeal held that the fee was not a penalty because the the purchaser had simply exercised a right under a term in the contract rather than being in breach. However, on appeal the House of Lords held that the fact that there was a term in the contract allowing early termination does not prevent the fact that there was indeed a breach of contract. it is of course the House of Lords decision that prevails.

 

So how do they explain the fact that you were not in breach of contract? One of the major terms of your contract was that it was to run for 25 yrs and you terminated early. You have clearly failed to fulfil the terms of the contract of paying monthly payments over the remainder.

 

They are clearly not listening to your arguments so it must soon be time for a money claim!

 

Still on target Paul.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[paulpb123]

Thank you so much for that Zoot, you are indeed a star! I am taking their letter as a final response and I will file a claim in the morning. If you are going to the protest/party can I please buy you a drink?

Good wishes,

Paul

[paulpb123]

A quick update. I've just filed my claim for £10, 270.65. Claim number 6QZ75852. This is where it really gets interesting.

[paulpb123]

Sorry, it's for £10,520.65 including the costs.

[zootscoot]

Yet another ERC claim today!

 

They are coming thick and fast

 

Have you pmed a mod or would you like me to pass on your details?

 

Best of luck Paul

 

Zoot

[paulpb123]

Hi Zoot,

Just pm'd Zooman with the details. Thanks for your help so far with this.

Paul

[dolly]

10 other people made moneyclaims between us two, Paul - I have issued MCOL today also and I am number 63 at the end!

 

Best of luck

[paulpb123]

Hi Dolly,

Do you mean 10 other ERCers? Or 10 claims of different types? Best of luck with yours. I guess we're all going to watching each other's progress over the coming weeks.

Paul

[dolly]

10 other claims went in between ours - how weird that we were so close together submitting them

[paulpb123]

Yeah, that is wierd. But great that our numbers are growing and people are starting to feel confident about taking on the mortgage companies for the ERCs. A bad day for them, a good day for us!

[paulpb123]

Claim issued 23/10/06.

[paulpb123]

Accord have acknowledged the claim. They now have 28 days to submit a defence and I wouldn't mind betting they leave it to the last minute...with a counterclaim for costs etc in order to intimidate me.

[sammyjammy]

Hi Paul,

 

Did you do your claim online? Can you tell from logging on whether they have accepted the claim and intend to defend or not? Time is up for mine on Saturday so their time is running out!

 

Sam

[paulpb123]

Hi Sam,

Yes, did it online. When you do the claim it tells you the status - issued, acknowledged etc. Mine has been acknowledged so they have 28 days to file a defence. Good luck with yours.

Paul

[dolly]

Well, they have 28 days from the day it was deemed served.

 

Really hope you get it easy!

[sammyjammy]

Thanks, mine still says issued, time is up on 4th November (paperwork says they get 14 days not 28) I've read of lots of had the defendant do it after the 14 days and made excuses like didn't get letters etc - boring! I'm trying to be patient, trouble is I've got nothing to go on because as yet I have had zilch correspondence from IGroup, but I guess if we go to court that looks bad for them which is good for me - yay!

 

Sam

[gizmo111]

Moneyclaim input Friday 13th October - hope thats not an omen!

 

Hi,

 

Just copied above from youe sig - guess it is an omen but for accord not you!

 

Good Luck

[paulpb123]

Sam,

It says on MCOL that they have 28 days from when the claim was deemed to have been served. That's because they've acknowledged the claim. Mine was issued 23/10/06 and deemed served on 28/10/06. They now have until 25/11/06 to defend it. Friday 13th is a bad omen for IGroup, not you. If they don't respond by Saturday then it really will be judgement day! Best of luck with it. Good luck Dolly and Gizmo, we'll all get there in the end.